S/O- Affirmative Action- where does it end?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's got to the point that people are strategizing how to win the admissions game by selecting or not selecting certain races. When it gets to this point, you know there is something wrong with the policy.

No one is gaming the system. There is no evidence of that. None. Just because some erroneously think that you can has no bearing on what is important to colleges as they build a class.

hahaha everyone knows what the colleges want, which is why everyone is trying to game the system in one way or another. If you want to increase your odds, you have to play the game. Don't hate the player, hate the sick, racist game.

Nice job just ignoring the point and reiterating your BS.

I repeat: No one is gaming the system. There is no evidence of that. None. Just because some erroneously think that you can has no bearing on what is important to colleges as they build a class.

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

Is this extremely unclear post refering to the impact of affirmative action on Asians? It's unclear to me why anyone of recent Asian immigrant descent would believe that their parents could immigrate to a country that'e engaed in a historical reckoning for 400+ years of genocide and apartheid and think that their presence means that reckoning somehow shouldn't happen.

If Americans moved to postwar Germany, should German reparations to Israel have been halted because it's unfair to tax Americans for the crimes of Germans?

Of course, thoughtful Asain American explicitly reject that line of thinking.

I am a thoughtful Asian American and I do not reject and I agree with the line of thinking you mention.

Well, the Asian students association at Harvard that filed an amicus curiae brief supporting Harvard's policies disagrees with you, but you're right -- I should have said "many thoughtful Asian Ameicans" becaue of course reasonable people will disagree and no group is monolithic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's got to the point that people are strategizing how to win the admissions game by selecting or not selecting certain races. When it gets to this point, you know there is something wrong with the policy.

No one is gaming the system. There is no evidence of that. None. Just because some erroneously think that you can has no bearing on what is important to colleges as they build a class.

hahaha everyone knows what the colleges want, which is why everyone is trying to game the system in one way or another. If you want to increase your odds, you have to play the game. Don't hate the player, hate the sick, racist game.

Nice job just ignoring the point and reiterating your BS.

I repeat: No one is gaming the system. There is no evidence of that. None. Just because some erroneously think that you can has no bearing on what is important to colleges as they build a class.

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you...

Stop the BS and show some evidence.

And before you try, one or two rare examples of someone being caught are not examples of the system being gamed. They are the example of the opposite. You have no evidence, for the simple reason: there isn't any.

Adcoms are not dumb. They are smarter than you about this topic. They know what they are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

Is this extremely unclear post refering to the impact of affirmative action on Asians? It's unclear to me why anyone of recent Asian immigrant descent would believe that their parents could immigrate to a country that'e engaed in a historical reckoning for 400+ years of genocide and apartheid and think that their presence means that reckoning somehow shouldn't happen.

If Americans moved to postwar Germany, should German reparations to Israel have been halted because it's unfair to tax Americans for the crimes of Germans?

Of course, thoughtful Asain American explicitly reject that line of thinking.

Reparations are different from affirmative action that is race based. By all means, we should eliminate policies that discriminate and desegregate and provide reparations for war crimes against humanity. But affirmative action policies that is race based will continue to discriminate against other races by definition. There are better ways of dealing with inequities.

Exactly.

The other pp is making false equivalencies with the Germany tax analogy. Would Germany only make Americans pay MORE taxes would be more accurate. Would they tax another minority that immigrated there MORE than they would tax themselves for their own reparations?

And as the above poster stated, reparations are completely different from affirmative action.

Which is it -- do you disagree with affirmative action, or do you just quibble with the negative impact on Asian Americans? Those are two entirely different arguments. I suspect a lot of white Americans like me who support affirmative action in admissions are not on board with a different, higher standard for Asians.

Also, as a Jew of German descent, I'm not at all clear what PP meant by "Reparations are different from affirmative action that is race based." Jews were a group that was targeted for extreme discrimination and genocide in Germany. African Americans are a group that were enslaved and suffered treatment that had a genocidal effect as part of the industrial slave trade, suffered apparthied treatment via federally enforced segregation through the 1960s and continue to suffer from devastating systemic racism -- particularly in law enforcement --- in 2021. It seems PP is trying to draw some kind of odd distinction between Jews as a group and Black Americans as a group. I wonder why that is?

[Anonymous]

This situation is more common among whites with some drop of Hispanic heritage. I can't count on two hands the multiples of students who begin to identify as a Hispanic minority in their senior year of high school. They even go to such lengths as changing hairstyles, darkening makeup, joining Hispanic clubs, and visiting the "home country" in the summer before college application season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

How would you suggest that we confront the inequalities of past policies that have currently day implications? If other minority groups are facing the same systemic racism in law enforcement, loans, housing, health care issues etc, what’s the hold up from being being allies? If you pretend not to see it because it either reinforces your belief or you benefit from it, how is that right?

It’s a hypocritical thought process. Allies are a two way street.

If you’re okay with racist policies towards certain groups and not others, that is not being an ally. That is asking for support against racism of you while you support and fight for racist policies towards others because it benefits you.

Right - Denounce racist discriminatory policies of affirmative action against Asian Americans period. In addition, call out (totally ignored by media) systematic racism and dismissal towards Asian Americans in sports, politics (don't give me Kamala non-sense), television, movies, music, journalism, judiciary, C-Suites, law firms, consulting, negative portrayal in media - basically in all areas in business, government and entertainment fields.

In addition, comedians openly mock Asians when they cannot for any other groups (including g fat people, disabled people, gay people etc.). Asians lack protection that gays, fat people and other groups in the society enjoy. On top of that, Asian men are constantly portrayed as feminine in TV programs, movies, music and in popular culture leading to negative consequences. You may try to minimize the hardships of Asian Americans and that is precisely the point. Asians would be treated just like blacks by law enforcement if Asians become belligerent and confrontational with law enforcement officers. Asians KNOW they lack the requisite politicians and receptive media people who will jump at these incidents for blacks. Asians who suffer death, injuries and worse as a result of hate crimes DO NOT even get reported or hardly ever get reported in the media : https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-mourns-loss-phd-student-yiran-fan

People spout oh there is no hardship for Asian Americans - only because Asians are deemed not worthy of even being a part of a discussion or even having a "seat" at the table in every possible ways. Most Asians would love to trade places with Blacks in US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The one drop rule does not apply. Your son is white.

OP here and in that case genuine question- what would you say defines when someone can/cannot claim a racial affiliation? Racial percentage (and if so what percent is acceptable ), skin tone? Cultural affinity?

I agree that it seems somehow wrong, given the goals of affirmative action, but I’m struggling with if/how I should tell my son not to claim a legitimate part of his heritage because the benefit is not meant for him, especially knowing that the college game is rigged in so many other ways.

What has he been selecting all along to register for school, medical forms, and census etc.? My kids are bi-racial and every form has checked both black and white. They aren’t white their whole lives on every form and suddenly two races for college applications.

OP here- up to this point we have been the ones filling out these forms for him and we have usually left it blank or checked the « decline to state » box.

Am I the only person who thinks this is a great topic for discussion but feels that more likely than not we are being trolled by someone opposed to affirmative action? This reminds me of the BIPOC thread.

OP and I guarantee that I’m not a troll. In answer to prior questions as to why we declined to state his race on past forms...it’s complicated. My own racial identity is something that I always struggled with when growing up given my background and upbringing (and this was back when we were told you could only pick one race when filling out forms, and other often wasn’t even an option). Under the circumstances, and especially when he was very young, I kind of wanted to wait until he was old enough to have a say in how he chooses to identify.

Maybe you left the section blank or refused to identify since there was no advantages to identifying as part black (maybe even a disadvantage) but now there is a definite advantage with college admissions to identifying as half black so now you want to do so. Hypocritical!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you left the section blank or refused to identify since there was no advantages to identifying as part black (maybe even a disadvantage) but now there is a definite advantage with college admissions to identifying as half black so now you want to do so. Hypocritical!

Or maybe OP left the section blank since there may have been perceived disadvantages to being identified as black.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

Is this extremely unclear post refering to the impact of affirmative action on Asians? It's unclear to me why anyone of recent Asian immigrant descent would believe that their parents could immigrate to a country that'e engaed in a historical reckoning for 400+ years of genocide and apartheid and think that their presence means that reckoning somehow shouldn't happen.

If Americans moved to postwar Germany, should German reparations to Israel have been halted because it's unfair to tax Americans for the crimes of Germans?

Of course, thoughtful Asain American explicitly reject that line of thinking.

I am a thoughtful Asian American and I do not reject and I agree with the line of thinking you mention.

Well, the Asian students association at Harvard that filed an amicus curiae brief supporting Harvard's policies disagrees with you, but you're right -- I should have said "many thoughtful Asian Ameicans" becaue of course reasonable people will disagree and no group is monolithic.

Of course they will not complain now - they already made it into Harvard and their degrees are worth more if they continue to keep Asians out of Harvard. They don't care anymore (e.g. Clarence Thomas).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

How would you suggest that we confront the inequalities of past policies that have currently day implications? If other minority groups are facing the same systemic racism in law enforcement, loans, housing, health care issues etc, what’s the hold up from being being allies? If you pretend not to see it because it either reinforces your belief or you benefit from it, how is that right?

It’s a hypocritical thought process. Allies are a two way street.

If you’re okay with racist policies towards certain groups and not others, that is not being an ally. That is asking for support against racism of you while you support and fight for racist policies towards others because it benefits you.

Right - Denounce racist discriminatory policies of affirmative action against Asian Americans period. In addition, call out (totally ignored by media) systematic racism and dismissal towards Asian Americans in sports, politics (don't give me Kamala non-sense), television, movies, music, journalism, judiciary, C-Suites, law firms, consulting, negative portrayal in media - basically in all areas in business, government and entertainment fields.

In addition, comedians openly mock Asians when they cannot for any other groups (including g fat people, disabled people, gay people etc.). Asians lack protection that gays, fat people and other groups in the society enjoy. On top of that, Asian men are constantly portrayed as feminine in TV programs, movies, music and in popular culture leading to negative consequences. You may try to minimize the hardships of Asian Americans and that is precisely the point. Asians would be treated just like blacks by law enforcement if Asians become belligerent and confrontational with law enforcement officers. Asians KNOW they lack the requisite politicians and receptive media people who will jump at these incidents for blacks. Asians who suffer death, injuries and worse as a result of hate crimes DO NOT even get reported or hardly ever get reported in the media : https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-mourns-loss-phd-student-yiran-fan

People spout oh there is no hardship for Asian Americans - only because Asians are deemed not worthy of even being a part of a discussion or even having a "seat" at the table in every possible ways. Most Asians would love to trade places with Blacks in US.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

How would you suggest that we confront the inequalities of past policies that have currently day implications? If other minority groups are facing the same systemic racism in law enforcement, loans, housing, health care issues etc, what’s the hold up from being being allies? If you pretend not to see it because it either reinforces your belief or you benefit from it, how is that right?

It’s a hypocritical thought process. Allies are a two way street.

If you’re okay with racist policies towards certain groups and not others, that is not being an ally. That is asking for support against racism of you while you support and fight for racist policies towards others because it benefits you.

Right - Denounce racist discriminatory policies of affirmative action against Asian Americans period. In addition, call out (totally ignored by media) systematic racism and dismissal towards Asian Americans in sports, politics (don't give me Kamala non-sense), television, movies, music, journalism, judiciary, C-Suites, law firms, consulting, negative portrayal in media - basically in all areas in business, government and entertainment fields.

In addition, comedians openly mock Asians when they cannot for any other groups (including g fat people, disabled people, gay people etc.). Asians lack protection that gays, fat people and other groups in the society enjoy. On top of that, Asian men are constantly portrayed as feminine in TV programs, movies, music and in popular culture leading to negative consequences. You may try to minimize the hardships of Asian Americans and that is precisely the point. Asians would be treated just like blacks by law enforcement if Asians become belligerent and confrontational with law enforcement officers. Asians KNOW they lack the requisite politicians and receptive media people who will jump at these incidents for blacks. Asians who suffer death, injuries and worse as a result of hate crimes DO NOT even get reported or hardly ever get reported in the media : https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-mourns-loss-phd-student-yiran-fan

People spout oh there is no hardship for Asian Americans - only because Asians are deemed not worthy of even being a part of a discussion or even having a "seat" at the table in every possible ways. Most Asians would love to trade places with Blacks in US.

+1000

I agree with everything said except you don’t take away privileges from AA to even the score, you extend the privilege to Asian Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with everything said except you don’t take away privileges from AA to even the score, you extend the privilege to Asian Americans.

Why is this point made in a college forum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with everything said except you don’t take away privileges from AA to even the score, you extend the privilege to Asian Americans.

Why is this point made in a college forum?

Dp.

Why not? Does affirmative action not affect people going to college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I agree with everything said except you don’t take away privileges from AA to even the score, you extend the privilege to Asian Americans.

Why is this point made in a college forum?

Dp.

Why not? Does affirmative action not affect people going to college?

Extremely faulty logic, but if you truly believe it I ask you to bring the discussion to the gardening forum, as it affects gardeners also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I have a somewhat similar situation but I have 2 kids. One is darker than the minority spouse! The other is like your son, maybe looks a little tan but that’s about it. I find it really strange to have one kid claim their mixed race and one not, so safe to say they both will.

Same -- I'm indian and my husband is white. our older son looks much more indian, our younger son looks white (so much so that people would sometimes ask if i was his nanny). I can't imagine the two of them checking different boxes when they have the exact same background.