S/O- Affirmative Action- where does it end?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^Please name one US Top 50 college where being Asian or Asian-American provides an affirmative action benefit.

Many LACs. Wash Lee for one.

The point is not where the underrepresentation is, the point is it is applied across all races equally.

Also, your requirement that it be "top 50 college" is an embarrassing tell. Why should any ranking determine what racial balance a college thinks it needs?

Bob and Bill are both low income, first generation college applicants applying out of state to Berkeley with identical, impressive stats. ECs are roughly equivalent. Bob is Black and checks the African American box on the app, while Bill is Hmong and checks the Asian box on the app. Granted the app allows further drill down on those categories, but colleges generally report demographics in the broad categories of Black, Asian, etc. On that basis, who has the greater chance of getting into Berkeley, Bob or Bill?

Berkley? Bob.

Howard? Bill.

Get it now?

Bill didn’t apply to Howard. He has the stats and credentials, and wants to attend Berkeley. Perhaps it is tops in the major he wishes to pursue.

Also, do we really think that Bob would be disadvantaged as compared to Bill if both were applying to Howard?

What Bill wants is meaningless, and irrelevant to whether it is fair.

Yes, Bob would be disadvantaged compared to Bill when applying to Howard.

As is evidenced by the gender-specific example of Vassar provided above.

At the end of the day, Bob does better in applications to Berkeley, Howard (it’s a HBCU after all) and Vassar - as well as pretty much any other school in roughly the Top 50 (i.e., a school where there is competition for seats) as compared to Bill. Bill stands slightly less than a snowball’s chance at Berkeley and much lower chances than Bob at other competitive schools. The point is that Bill is the Asian version of Bob, but Bill is disadvantaged generally across the board when it comes to institutions that are competitive in filling their seats. (For institutions that need applicants as a general matter, presumably the two would have an equal chance.)

No, you have it completely wrong.

Bill "does better" at Howard if they seek racial balance as many colleges do. it's simple math: smaller cohort of qualified applicants, easier to "do better" (hate that term BTW).

Both Bob and Bill do better than Betty at Vassar. Do you think that is sexism?

Betty does better than Bob or Bill at RPI. Is that sexism?

If Betty is white, both Bob and Bill do better than her at Washington and Lee. Is that racism or sexism?

It only appears so when you look at a small subset of colleges. That's not how statistics works, or what "across the board" means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's got to the point that people are strategizing how to win the admissions game by selecting or not selecting certain races. When it gets to this point, you know there is something wrong with the policy.

NP (I think) and I agree. Things are ridiculous at this point. And it's going to HURT the people that these policies are trying to help. People are going to start thinking that people of certain races only got entrance to certain colleges because of their race. That's unfair for the people of those races who would have achieved entry based on merit and hard work without "playing the race card".

How do you legislate against racism and bias in employment? Even today, despite affirmative action, you see the studies where someone with a name associated as African-American does not get an interview while someone with a more generic name with an identical resume gets a call back. You also don’t see a very diverse executive management at most companies. So if this is what things look like with affirmative action, what would it look like without? Where people say it’s not what you know, it’s who you know, how does this help minorities have an equal footing?

But I guess if you are worried about people thinking it’s an unfair advantage and all, we should ban employee referrals and nepotism because it could hurt the very people it’s trying to help. I’m sure certain political people must have cried themselves to sleep every night thinking someone might think they were unqualified for their job because they got it thru connections. I know, better yet, when someone new starts the job, whether they are a minority or a woman or an employee referral or someone off the street, let’s assume they can do the job unless proven otherwise aka the benefit of the doubt the non-minority is given.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: OP and I guarantee that I’m not a troll. In answer to prior questions as to why we declined to state his race on past forms...it’s complicated. My own racial identity is something that I always struggled with when growing up given my background and upbringing (and this was back when we were told you could only pick one race when filling out forms, and other often wasn’t even an option). Under the circumstances, and especially when he was very young, I kind of wanted to wait until he was old enough to have a say in how he chooses to identify.

Well what does your son have to say about it? Again I would just strongly urge you to make sure you understand what race actually is - it is not biological, it was created to justify subjugating people. Fast forward to now, colleges care about how you identify because it speaks to what your life experience might be. I think you understand this or else you would not have asked the question. Most kids that check the AA box will have other things in their background that speaks to the fact that they identify as African American. For all of the hand-wringing here I can tell you that colleges, especially the top ones can tell the difference. It's the same as someone who has identified as white all of their life all of a sudden checking the Hispanic/Latino box because their grandmother was from Spain. It did not help that child in the college admission process one bit. You do what is best for you and please allow your child to have a say. Also this is the type of thing that can blow back on a person later in life, so there's that too. - See Elizabeth Warren.

From my view the problem isn't with affirmative action - the problem is with racism as you can seek from this thread.

Signed - a black woman with two kids in college.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

How would you suggest that we confront the inequalities of past policies that have currently day implications? If other minority groups are facing the same systemic racism in law enforcement, loans, housing, health care issues etc, what’s the hold up from being being allies? If you pretend not to see it because it either reinforces your belief or you benefit from it, how is that right?

It’s a hypocritical thought process. Allies are a two way street.

If you’re okay with racist policies towards certain groups and not others, that is not being an ally. That is asking for support against racism of you while you support and fight for racist policies towards others because it benefits you.

Right - Denounce racist discriminatory policies of affirmative action against Asian Americans period. In addition, call out (totally ignored by media) systematic racism and dismissal towards Asian Americans in sports, politics (don't give me Kamala non-sense), television, movies, music, journalism, judiciary, C-Suites, law firms, consulting, negative portrayal in media - basically in all areas in business, government and entertainment fields.

In addition, comedians openly mock Asians when they cannot for any other groups (including g fat people, disabled people, gay people etc.). Asians lack protection that gays, fat people and other groups in the society enjoy. On top of that, Asian men are constantly portrayed as feminine in TV programs, movies, music and in popular culture leading to negative consequences. You may try to minimize the hardships of Asian Americans and that is precisely the point. Asians would be treated just like blacks by law enforcement if Asians become belligerent and confrontational with law enforcement officers. Asians KNOW they lack the requisite politicians and receptive media people who will jump at these incidents for blacks. Asians who suffer death, injuries and worse as a result of hate crimes DO NOT even get reported or hardly ever get reported in the media : https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-mourns-loss-phd-student-yiran-fan

People spout oh there is no hardship for Asian Americans - only because Asians are deemed not worthy of even being a part of a discussion or even having a "seat" at the table in every possible ways. Most Asians would love to trade places with Blacks in US.

Eliminate racist affirmative action.

Only way to end racial discrimination is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: OP and I guarantee that I’m not a troll. In answer to prior questions as to why we declined to state his race on past forms...it’s complicated. My own racial identity is something that I always struggled with when growing up given my background and upbringing (and this was back when we were told you could only pick one race when filling out forms, and other often wasn’t even an option). Under the circumstances, and especially when he was very young, I kind of wanted to wait until he was old enough to have a say in how he chooses to identify.

Well what does your son have to say about it? Again I would just strongly urge you to make sure you understand what race actually is - it is not biological, it was created to justify subjugating people. Fast forward to now, colleges care about how you identify because it speaks to what your life experience might be. I think you understand this or else you would not have asked the question. Most kids that check the AA box will have other things in their background that speaks to the fact that they identify as African American. For all of the hand-wringing here I can tell you that colleges, especially the top ones can tell the difference. It's the same as someone who has identified as white all of their life all of a sudden checking the Hispanic/Latino box because their grandmother was from Spain. It did not help that child in the college admission process one bit. You do what is best for you and please allow your child to have a say. Also this is the type of thing that can blow back on a person later in life, so there's that too. - See Elizabeth Warren.

From my view the problem isn't with affirmative action - the problem is with racism as you can seek from this thread.

Signed - a black woman with two kids in college.

+1.

Problem is that some group experience discrimination under affirmative action but experience racism on top of discrimination under affirmative action!

[Anonymous]

Are we really debating this? The universities on the other side always play the game to their advantage. Play the AA card. Play every card you can legally play to give to child an advantage and don't let anyone shame you. End of story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we really debating this? The universities on the other side always play the game to their advantage. Play the AA card. Play every card you can legally play to give to child an advantage and don't let anyone shame you. End of story.

Then stop complaining Asians study too much or prep too much. That is the only thing they are forced in to doing and nothing wrong with studying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we really debating this? The universities on the other side always play the game to their advantage. Play the AA card. Play every card you can legally play to give to child an advantage and don't let anyone shame you. End of story.

Then stop complaining Asians study too much or prep too much. That is the only thing they are forced in to doing and nothing wrong with studying.

Lol, Really?

Like I said, do whatever is legal to get an edge. My kids are actually hurt from AA, but if I were a parent who could play the AA card, I would do it without hesitation and I don't blame any family who uses it. Those who don't exploit the card they are dealt are fools. Never go to a gun fight with a knife. That just makes you a dumb dead doofus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we really debating this? The universities on the other side always play the game to their advantage. Play the AA card. Play every card you can legally play to give to child an advantage and don't let anyone shame you. End of story.

Then stop complaining Asians study too much or prep too much. That is the only thing they are forced in to doing and nothing wrong with studying.

Lol, Really?

Like I said, do whatever is legal to get an edge. My kids are actually hurt from AA, but if I were a parent who could play the AA card, I would do it without hesitation and I don't blame any family who uses it. Those who don't exploit the card they are dealt are fools. Never go to a gun fight with a knife. That just makes you a dumb dead doofus

That’s fine but don’t pretend that the legal advantage is not equally legally racist.

And don’t be the loudest person in the room against racism while also happily partaking your racist advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

How would you suggest that we confront the inequalities of past policies that have currently day implications? If other minority groups are facing the same systemic racism in law enforcement, loans, housing, health care issues etc, what’s the hold up from being being allies? If you pretend not to see it because it either reinforces your belief or you benefit from it, how is that right?

It’s a hypocritical thought process. Allies are a two way street.

If you’re okay with racist policies towards certain groups and not others, that is not being an ally. That is asking for support against racism of you while you support and fight for racist policies towards others because it benefits you.

Right - Denounce racist discriminatory policies of affirmative action against Asian Americans period. In addition, call out (totally ignored by media) systematic racism and dismissal towards Asian Americans in sports, politics (don't give me Kamala non-sense), television, movies, music, journalism, judiciary, C-Suites, law firms, consulting, negative portrayal in media - basically in all areas in business, government and entertainment fields.

In addition, comedians openly mock Asians when they cannot for any other groups (including g fat people, disabled people, gay people etc.). Asians lack protection that gays, fat people and other groups in the society enjoy. On top of that, Asian men are constantly portrayed as feminine in TV programs, movies, music and in popular culture leading to negative consequences. You may try to minimize the hardships of Asian Americans and that is precisely the point. Asians would be treated just like blacks by law enforcement if Asians become belligerent and confrontational with law enforcement officers. Asians KNOW they lack the requisite politicians and receptive media people who will jump at these incidents for blacks. Asians who suffer death, injuries and worse as a result of hate crimes DO NOT even get reported or hardly ever get reported in the media : https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-mourns-loss-phd-student-yiran-fan

People spout oh there is no hardship for Asian Americans - only because Asians are deemed not worthy of even being a part of a discussion or even having a "seat" at the table in every possible ways. Most Asians would love to trade places with Blacks in US.

Eliminate racist affirmative action.

Only way to end racial discrimination is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.

Absolutely. Start with eliminating racism in criminal justice, hiring and medical care. Then we can talk about college admissions.

[Anonymous]

^^This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

How would you suggest that we confront the inequalities of past policies that have currently day implications? If other minority groups are facing the same systemic racism in law enforcement, loans, housing, health care issues etc, what’s the hold up from being being allies? If you pretend not to see it because it either reinforces your belief or you benefit from it, how is that right?

It’s a hypocritical thought process. Allies are a two way street.

If you’re okay with racist policies towards certain groups and not others, that is not being an ally. That is asking for support against racism of you while you support and fight for racist policies towards others because it benefits you.

Right - Denounce racist discriminatory policies of affirmative action against Asian Americans period. In addition, call out (totally ignored by media) systematic racism and dismissal towards Asian Americans in sports, politics (don't give me Kamala non-sense), television, movies, music, journalism, judiciary, C-Suites, law firms, consulting, negative portrayal in media - basically in all areas in business, government and entertainment fields.

In addition, comedians openly mock Asians when they cannot for any other groups (including g fat people, disabled people, gay people etc.). Asians lack protection that gays, fat people and other groups in the society enjoy. On top of that, Asian men are constantly portrayed as feminine in TV programs, movies, music and in popular culture leading to negative consequences. You may try to minimize the hardships of Asian Americans and that is precisely the point. Asians would be treated just like blacks by law enforcement if Asians become belligerent and confrontational with law enforcement officers. Asians KNOW they lack the requisite politicians and receptive media people who will jump at these incidents for blacks. Asians who suffer death, injuries and worse as a result of hate crimes DO NOT even get reported or hardly ever get reported in the media : https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-mourns-loss-phd-student-yiran-fan

People spout oh there is no hardship for Asian Americans - only because Asians are deemed not worthy of even being a part of a discussion or even having a "seat" at the table in every possible ways. Most Asians would love to trade places with Blacks in US.

Eliminate racist affirmative action.

Only way to end racial discrimination is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.

Absolutely. Start with eliminating racism in criminal justice, hiring and medical care. Then we can talk about college admissions.

Let's deal with all three at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - affirmative action is horrible and discriminatory. It should not be a thing.

But this is the system we are dealing with, so your son should check both boxes or check 'two or more races'. (Which is it?)

OP, PP's opinions are horrible and ignorant. Affirmative action should absolutely be a thing.

I have no opinion about what box your child should check, but commend your throughtfullness in asking the question. Have you spoken to your child's guiance counselor or any admissions offices?

Affirmative action should be based on income not race, hence that would be no need to check "boxes". if you are white and poor, brown and poor, yellow and poor, and black and poor, you should benefit from affirmative action. The common denominator should be income not race.

+1
It's a racist policy. The worst part is the never ending lies, which have caused the sickos to rebrand the policy every few years. They give someone an opportunity because of the color of their skin, and that same opportunity is denied to someone because of their skin color. The policy has nothing to do with opportunity, it's all about genetics. And to make matters worse, when it comes to college admissions, they are discriminating against a group of people that has historically been discriminated against.

+2

I understand the historical inequities, I understand how systemic racism has affected generations of Black people.

I don't understand why Black people think it's okay for Affirmative Action to discriminate against another much smaller than them minority group based on race who were not their oppressors to right the wrongs they have faced by the hands and laws of White people.

This notion of collateral damage to get mine is racist, discriminatory, unjustified, and belligerent. All the things they seem to stand against, yet have no problem partaking in. Rising up by stepping on others is no different than what White people have done to Black people and other races all over the world.

How would you suggest that we confront the inequalities of past policies that have currently day implications? If other minority groups are facing the same systemic racism in law enforcement, loans, housing, health care issues etc, what’s the hold up from being being allies? If you pretend not to see it because it either reinforces your belief or you benefit from it, how is that right?

It’s a hypocritical thought process. Allies are a two way street.

If you’re okay with racist policies towards certain groups and not others, that is not being an ally. That is asking for support against racism of you while you support and fight for racist policies towards others because it benefits you.

Right - Denounce racist discriminatory policies of affirmative action against Asian Americans period. In addition, call out (totally ignored by media) systematic racism and dismissal towards Asian Americans in sports, politics (don't give me Kamala non-sense), television, movies, music, journalism, judiciary, C-Suites, law firms, consulting, negative portrayal in media - basically in all areas in business, government and entertainment fields.

In addition, comedians openly mock Asians when they cannot for any other groups (including g fat people, disabled people, gay people etc.). Asians lack protection that gays, fat people and other groups in the society enjoy. On top of that, Asian men are constantly portrayed as feminine in TV programs, movies, music and in popular culture leading to negative consequences. You may try to minimize the hardships of Asian Americans and that is precisely the point. Asians would be treated just like blacks by law enforcement if Asians become belligerent and confrontational with law enforcement officers. Asians KNOW they lack the requisite politicians and receptive media people who will jump at these incidents for blacks. Asians who suffer death, injuries and worse as a result of hate crimes DO NOT even get reported or hardly ever get reported in the media : https://news.uchicago.edu/story/uchicago-mourns-loss-phd-student-yiran-fan

People spout oh there is no hardship for Asian Americans - only because Asians are deemed not worthy of even being a part of a discussion or even having a "seat" at the table in every possible ways. Most Asians would love to trade places with Blacks in US.

Amen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we really debating this? The universities on the other side always play the game to their advantage. Play the AA card. Play every card you can legally play to give to child an advantage and don't let anyone shame you. End of story.

Then stop complaining Asians study too much or prep too much. That is the only thing they are forced in to doing and nothing wrong with studying.

Lol, Really?

Like I said, do whatever is legal to get an edge. My kids are actually hurt from AA, but if I were a parent who could play the AA card, I would do it without hesitation and I don't blame any family who uses it. Those who don't exploit the card they are dealt are fools. Never go to a gun fight with a knife. That just makes you a dumb dead doofus

That’s fine but don’t pretend that the legal advantage is not equally legally racist.

And don’t be the loudest person in the room against racism while also happily partaking your racist advantage.

So in your world racism is ok all the time and everywhere except at the moment of admissions at about 20 colleges on the planet? And it is OK if you benefit from it at other colleges at the time of admissions?

Well forgive me if that sounds a little self-serving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we really debating this? The universities on the other side always play the game to their advantage. Play the AA card. Play every card you can legally play to give to child an advantage and don't let anyone shame you. End of story.

Then stop complaining Asians study too much or prep too much. That is the only thing they are forced in to doing and nothing wrong with studying.

Lol, Really?

Like I said, do whatever is legal to get an edge. My kids are actually hurt from AA, but if I were a parent who could play the AA card, I would do it without hesitation and I don't blame any family who uses it. Those who don't exploit the card they are dealt are fools. Never go to a gun fight with a knife. That just makes you a dumb dead doofus

That’s fine but don’t pretend that the legal advantage is not equally legally racist.

And don’t be the loudest person in the room against racism while also happily partaking your racist advantage.

So in your world racism is ok all the time and everywhere except at the moment of admissions at about 20 colleges on the planet? And it is OK if you benefit from it at other colleges at the time of admissions?

Well forgive me if that sounds a little self-serving.

Where in the world do you get these projections?

Unlike you, I believe racism *in all forms* is wrong. It's wrong to be racist towards Blacks, it's wrong to be racist towards Asians, it's wrong to be racist towards Native Americans, Hispanics... It's ALWAYS wrong.

Not wrong for everyday life, but okay for college admissions.

Well forgive me if you sound a lot self-serving.