Dating a Red Piller

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. I'd just like to echo that what you read about it represents the extreme side of things, which doesn't represent the majority of people who read and take advice from it. There are generations of boys growing up without strong father figures or older brothers teaching them how to operate in the world. They have grown up in front of computers and do not know what it means to be a man.

It's impossible to explain this to women in a way that they can understand so I won't go further. We don't hate women. For myself, I never knew how to be a man based on my upbringing. Now I do and am happy.

Female here. This is a very good post. I think a lot of women don’t like this ‘red pill’ stuff because it exposes their really toxic behaviors and teaches men how not to be used by women

People are awful to each other in all kinds of ways all the time. Every combination of genders. If you think women are uniquely awful it's only because you've never dated men. Are there behaviors that are more common? Sure. For instance, a guy is more likely to murder you, but they certainly don't have a monopoly on it. No one is saying "oh gosh, women are never terrible to men, and men should never advocate for themselves." It's the specific tropes of redpill that are dehumanizing and make men who are already not very self-aware even less self-aware. I was in an abusive relationship where I was scared of him afterward, and I didn't come out of that generalizing about men, I did a lot of work exploring my own role in it and how to make better choices. But some guy does favors for his hot female friends who he thinks he's entitled to sleep with, and that's some kind of justification for hating women? No, eff that.

I think you are missing the point of red pill-type theories in some ways, which IME invariably tell men that it is stupid and ineffective to do favors for women in an attempt to secure sex. Correcting misguided behavior in this way reduces, not increases, misogyny, and it’s simply true that there are some men with sufficiently poor social skills that that kind of thing needs to be explicitly explained in ways many find distasteful. The whole red pill phenomenon is really just a communal attempt to correct the very weak socialization some boys received due to absent male role models.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like anything, there are varying degrees of what people take out of any ideology.

I am a man who frequents the redpill subreddit. I found it after a particularly harsh breakup and it opened my eyes into what I was doing wrong with women. Not having a strong father figure, I learned how to deal with women from romantic comedies, Disney movies, and love songs. And that's how I did things, which is not how the world works.

Since stumbling upon this, I am more successful with women and just overall happier. Ignore the extreme edges of the ideology and focus on its core tenants. Which I won't get into here.

OP here. Thank you for chiming in. One of the issues for me is that the ideology paints all women as the same and wanting the same thing. I think that is far from true. By thinking that way you strip a woman of her voice and ability to community her preferences.

For instance, with respect to the guy I’m dating there are two things I’ve notice he does after learning more about red pill mgtow stuff, that the philosophies advocate. I dislike both those things. They definitely don’t make me more attracted to him, they are annoying actually. But I had been tolerating them because there are a lot of other things about his personality I do like.

If you’ve been dating for 2.5 months, why not just talk to him about what he actually thinks? There’s a huge range of opinion that could be characterized as “red pill,” ranging from the crazy and dysfunctional—if he were that, my guess is there would be other signs—to views that are just a bit unorthodox/contrarian, to what is effectively just remedial education for those who don’t find the process of dating particularly intuitive. Especially if he has treated you reasonably well thus far, I wouldn’t bail just based on an assessment of internet posts that may or may not actually reflect his views.

I love this post. Red pill views are abhorrent, absolutely, but there are a few possibilities for why he posted what he did. I would be really curious to talk to him and hear his side. Probably would still break up, but there's a chance there's an interesting story there.

[Anonymous]

Woman here, I have read some websites for MGTOW/red pill because I thought the idea was interesting, I wanted to know what it was about. Some of the ideas I agreed with and some I thought were extreme.

I completely agree with the guy moving the furniture. What I read from the websites was the same idea. They didn't want more friends, they have friends, what they wanted was a romantic/sexual relationship so in their mind, why would they move a females furniture if she isn't interested in them. Today we are fighting for equality so in their mind, the female can pay movers or get family to help. The female is using her looks to use these males and they are simply saying enough and I think that is fair enough.

They talk about hypergamy - marrying or sleeping someone of a superior background. Their idea from what I read is that most women want to marry a successful man and lets face it, look at this forum, its true. So many posts about getting a rich husband, successful husband. Their opinion seems to be that even if a woman herself isn't successful she still expects her boyfriend/husband to be successful, so where is the personal responsibility of the female.

They feel unappreciated in society and talk about the fact that men have built societies, they are the inventors, have built the infrastructure etc. I agree with that but women have created the people to be that society it's built for.

What I do agree with is that a lot of it was simply making their own lives better, doing what they want and not letting a female come along and distract them from that. A lot of them seemed to be there after a really messy divorce and they had terrible stories of how they were treated and left destitute. I think in part some of the ideas are simply to protect themselves so it doesn't happen again. I have seen male friends end a marriage like this so agree in putting those boundaries in place.

I also saw that some of the extreme ideas did show a hatred toward feminism and females and extreme misogyny such as I read one reply that wanted life to go back to where women couldn't vote or work however we also have radical feminists so I guess it evens out. They seem to have a thing with the fact that females sleep around now however this is something women have been putting up with from men for centauries so well I don't have much sympathy on that one.

I am sure this is a basic view, I couldn't be bothered spending too much time on it. I think females are viewed as being innocent in nature when in actual fact a lot aren't and there is a lot of toxic behaviour in females, for some reason society isn't ready to acknowledge that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Woman here, I have read some websites for MGTOW/red pill because I thought the idea was interesting, I wanted to know what it was about. Some of the ideas I agreed with and some I thought were extreme.

I completely agree with the guy moving the furniture. What I read from the websites was the same idea. They didn't want more friends, they have friends, what they wanted was a romantic/sexual relationship so in their mind, why would they move a females furniture if she isn't interested in them. Today we are fighting for equality so in their mind, the female can pay movers or get family to help. The female is using her looks to use these males and they are simply saying enough and I think that is fair enough.

They talk about hypergamy - marrying or sleeping someone of a superior background. Their idea from what I read is that most women want to marry a successful man and lets face it, look at this forum, its true. So many posts about getting a rich husband, successful husband. Their opinion seems to be that even if a woman herself isn't successful she still expects her boyfriend/husband to be successful, so where is the personal responsibility of the female.

They feel unappreciated in society and talk about the fact that men have built societies, they are the inventors, have built the infrastructure etc. I agree with that but women have created the people to be that society it's built for.

What I do agree with is that a lot of it was simply making their own lives better, doing what they want and not letting a female come along and distract them from that. A lot of them seemed to be there after a really messy divorce and they had terrible stories of how they were treated and left destitute. I think in part some of the ideas are simply to protect themselves so it doesn't happen again. I have seen male friends end a marriage like this so agree in putting those boundaries in place.

I also saw that some of the extreme ideas did show a hatred toward feminism and females and extreme misogyny such as I read one reply that wanted life to go back to where women couldn't vote or work however we also have radical feminists so I guess it evens out. They seem to have a thing with the fact that females sleep around now however this is something women have been putting up with from men for centauries so well I don't have much sympathy on that one.

I am sure this is a basic view, I couldn't be bothered spending too much time on it. I think females are viewed as being innocent in nature when in actual fact a lot aren't and there is a lot of toxic behaviour in females, for some reason society isn't ready to acknowledge that.

You pass for being a woman who was casually interested in redpill about as well as my toaster passes as being a human. "Females" is not a word women use to describe women. The idea that society doesn't acknowledge that women can be awful is not something anyone who isn't deeply steeped in this stuff could say without laughing. Obviously, women can be awful. Obviously, if your only interest in someone is sleeping with them, you should not pretend to be their friend. Really, for their sake as much as for yours - the idea that the only person getting hurt when you pretend to be her friend is you is so lacking in empathy. Alimony is barely a thing, so the money your "friends" are paying after a divorce is going to support their kids - but hey, you're certainly free next time to partner with someone who makes a more similar income to you. It might mean making certain other trade-offs that you aren't interested in making - or are we only interrogating the romantic choices that women make here?

Oh, but you think the guys who believe women (sorry, "females") shouldn't vote are too extreme? Whoah, how moderate and reasonable of you.

[Anonymous]

I’m glad I’m not the only person that scratched their head on how a crab could post to dcum under the guise of a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. I'd just like to echo that what you read about it represents the extreme side of things, which doesn't represent the majority of people who read and take advice from it. There are generations of boys growing up without strong father figures or older brothers teaching them how to operate in the world. They have grown up in front of computers and do not know what it means to be a man.

It's impossible to explain this to women in a way that they can understand so I won't go further. We don't hate women. For myself, I never knew how to be a man based on my upbringing. Now I do and am happy.

Female here. This is a very good post. I think a lot of women don’t like this ‘red pill’ stuff because it exposes their really toxic behaviors and teaches men how not to be used by women

Pick Me’s always tell on themselves, you actually did it in the first sentence. E for efficiency!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woman here, I have read some websites for MGTOW/red pill because I thought the idea was interesting, I wanted to know what it was about. Some of the ideas I agreed with and some I thought were extreme.

I completely agree with the guy moving the furniture. What I read from the websites was the same idea. They didn't want more friends, they have friends, what they wanted was a romantic/sexual relationship so in their mind, why would they move a females furniture if she isn't interested in them. Today we are fighting for equality so in their mind, the female can pay movers or get family to help. The female is using her looks to use these males and they are simply saying enough and I think that is fair enough.

They talk about hypergamy - marrying or sleeping someone of a superior background. Their idea from what I read is that most women want to marry a successful man and lets face it, look at this forum, its true. So many posts about getting a rich husband, successful husband. Their opinion seems to be that even if a woman herself isn't successful she still expects her boyfriend/husband to be successful, so where is the personal responsibility of the female.

They feel unappreciated in society and talk about the fact that men have built societies, they are the inventors, have built the infrastructure etc. I agree with that but women have created the people to be that society it's built for.

What I do agree with is that a lot of it was simply making their own lives better, doing what they want and not letting a female come along and distract them from that. A lot of them seemed to be there after a really messy divorce and they had terrible stories of how they were treated and left destitute. I think in part some of the ideas are simply to protect themselves so it doesn't happen again. I have seen male friends end a marriage like this so agree in putting those boundaries in place.

I also saw that some of the extreme ideas did show a hatred toward feminism and females and extreme misogyny such as I read one reply that wanted life to go back to where women couldn't vote or work however we also have radical feminists so I guess it evens out. They seem to have a thing with the fact that females sleep around now however this is something women have been putting up with from men for centauries so well I don't have much sympathy on that one.

I am sure this is a basic view, I couldn't be bothered spending too much time on it. I think females are viewed as being innocent in nature when in actual fact a lot aren't and there is a lot of toxic behaviour in females, for some reason society isn't ready to acknowledge that.

You pass for being a woman who was casually interested in redpill about as well as my toaster passes as being a human. "Females" is not a word women use to describe women. The idea that society doesn't acknowledge that women can be awful is not something anyone who isn't deeply steeped in this stuff could say without laughing. Obviously, women can be awful. Obviously, if your only interest in someone is sleeping with them, you should not pretend to be their friend. Really, for their sake as much as for yours - the idea that the only person getting hurt when you pretend to be her friend is you is so lacking in empathy. Alimony is barely a thing, so the money your "friends" are paying after a divorce is going to support their kids - but hey, you're certainly free next time to partner with someone who makes a more similar income to you. It might mean making certain other trade-offs that you aren't interested in making - or are we only interrogating the romantic choices that women make here?

Oh, but you think the guys who believe women (sorry, "females") shouldn't vote are too extreme? Whoah, how moderate and reasonable of you.

Heart eyes. Seriously, I love you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do not ask him about it. If he does believe in these things there’s a lot of anger there. If you confront him, it could all come to the surface especially once you deviate from the nice, receptive female role. It could even be explosive and all at once. I agree with the slow fade - move on.

Naw, he needs to know that being into this stuff is a huge turnoff and dealbreaker

[Anonymous]

OP has been warned. If she does not heed the warning, well, all kinds are in this world. Some women are born victims.

[Anonymous]

Did the Red Pill Reddit forum get shut down? I can’t find it and, very strangely, can’t find a clear answer on this question.

[Anonymous]

Didn't read the thread, don't understand how the answer is anything other than DTMFA. Should be a short thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. I'd just like to echo that what you read about it represents the extreme side of things, which doesn't represent the majority of people who read and take advice from it. There are generations of boys growing up without strong father figures or older brothers teaching them how to operate in the world. They have grown up in front of computers and do not know what it means to be a man.

It's impossible to explain this to women in a way that they can understand so I won't go further. We don't hate women. For myself, I never knew how to be a man based on my upbringing. Now I do and am happy.

Female here. This is a very good post. I think a lot of women don’t like this ‘red pill’ stuff because it exposes their really toxic behaviors and teaches men how not to be used by women

Pick Me’s always tell on themselves, you actually did it in the first sentence. E for efficiency!

If you are referring to me, the female, I’ve been married for decades so ‘pick me’ isn’t my thing. I’m not looking. I do have two sons though, and they don’t need to hear from women that they are toxic, etc. I raised them to be kind and thoughtful, but not to be taken advantage of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

think a lot of young men read this stuff but a much smaller percentage are hardcore.

I’d always been friend zoned by women and always the reliable guy they could lean on and tell me about their breakups. In reading on how I could up my game I stumbled on this red pill stuff and, while I still have the same high level of respect for women, my approach is entirely different.

For example, I play the field more with women rather than ditching them all when one woman acts like she likes me. I’d been burned on that before when we break up and I’ve burned bridges.

Also, I don’t engage in chatty text messages, I let my intention be known in a nice way. I set a date and make the date. I don’t emote all of my feelings. I no longer text chat all day while I’m working. If I feel I’m not appreciated I don’t keep giving of myself. I used to be the guy several beautiful women would ask to move their furniture after they got railed by some guy who wasn’t in my opinion as good as me.

In other words reading this stuff has made me realize my self worth.

I don’t think the people who say dump this guy actually have read the stuff. Or they have only read extreme women hating stuff.

This doesn't sound like red pill. It sounds like establishing your boundaries. when i was dating, I did many of the same things (I'm a woman). Dont fall for someone right away, assume they are dating others, dont engage in stupid endless texting, just meet and either pursue if there's chemistry or nicely end it.

"I used to be the guy several beautiful women would ask to move their furniture after they got railed by some guy who wasn’t in my opinion as good as me" sounds exactly like red pill. "I did favors for women I wanted to sleep with. I wasn't honest about my intentions with them, and I hoped they'd be interested in me even as they clearly were interested in other men instead" would be a normal, healthy way of talking about this.

In this scenario the question could also be asked why these women think it's ok to ask someone to move furniture for free? I would only ask my best friends to do that. If these women are beautiful they know it, and they know they can use their looks to get things for free. My wife is conventionally attractive and I see her play this game. She's so used to doing it she still does it even though she's married.

[Anonymous]

Odds are he’s an earnest guy who got burned in the past and is trying to avoid a repeat. That’s why it’s so foolish that op wouldn’t bother asking him about it, seems like she doesn’t really value him as a person at all. Is there a chance he’s a stalker/misogynist/narcissist whatever...sure, I don’t think red pill makes that more likely-just that he might be less savvy to social cues.
My dh is like this and is a model husband/father but did get bitter about some toxic exes who I could have red-flagged from miles away but he’s a math guy and just didn’t pick up on those cues.
We still celebrate Jane Austen and chivalrous men and enable damsels in distress so we send mixed signals as a society because we are still evolving. Some guys have a harder time sorting that out. I don’t think red pill gives a good solution as men end up old and alone, but I recognize the hypocrisy they are describing.

[Anonymous]

I'm a woman that casually refers to women as females. Old military habit. Science-minded women do the same from time to time.

I don't really understand what red pill is I suppose, because it doesn't seem like a big deal to me- if you aren't thinking in extreme terms.

OP, what is it specifically he does that bothers you? I would base my judgement on him and his behaviors--not on what you think/know about red pill. You don't really know what his beliefs are. Maybe just ask him.