Possible legal challenge against TJ lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

White numbers may go up slightly but that will not stop conservative judges from prohibiting an admissions system that considers a race or results in disparate impact since a court decision impacts an entire state or multiple states. The judge may not care about TJ but would certainly love to strike down a system that allows for a boost for blacks. They hate racial preferences period.

I have to assume that folks who post this sort of nonsense haven't grown up in countries with a functioning rule of law. "Disparate impact" is not a magic word that one can throw around and immediately get the response one wants, nor are "conservative judges" going to overturn years of precedent just to protect admissions at one public school in Virginia.

For what it's worth, "disparate impact" is not determined based on the status quo, but rather on the general population. So...a lottery system that grants more slots to majority white sending middle schools could trigger a disparate impact ruling, but a random lottery for all kids who pass a certain threshold? There's no disparate impact there, unless you compare against the current population, and that's not how the law works. [/quote

Common law tradition is basically ex British colonies- if you aren’t from one, our legal system is pretty alien. It’s hard to understand that even the most partisan judges still have to fall back on case law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That old case doesn't invalidate all lotteries. It invalidated a lottery used over 20 years ago that was expressly race-weighted, which the TJ proposal is not.

OP sounds like a moron who just wants to keep the deck stacked in favor of people who pay to play by enrolling their kids in test prep centers with special access to exam questions.

Courts always look at old judgments ..

Can we send Athletes to Olympics with no prep ? if you want Gold medal, yes you need dedication, skill and prep

Why dont FCPS start another STEM program at different low rated high school with TJ Principal and some staff ? so access to more students and improves diversity too.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but the fact that lots of families in this area see admission to TJ as equivalent to an Olympic Gold medal, or an NBA roster spot, or even a high school team roster spot is maybe the best argument for why TJ is the toxic environment that it is, and that it needs to fundamentally change.

How should these families change and what are the suggestions. Everyone does what they like to do, if getting to TJ is like getting gold medal for them they are working on it and earning it. Not everyone who preps gets in also. Having another magnet is a good idea.

they're free to prep and strive and do what they want. The county decided they wanted to give kids who didn't have those opportunities a chance so they designed a system to distribute TJ slots more widely

And it will be struck down by a conservative judge or conservative court after fcps wastes millions of tax payer money.

The likely end result of implementing a lottery will be that more white kids end up at TJ. So given that outcome, I assume a conservative court will instead uphold it (giving a different, legally-sound reason though).

White numbers may go up slightly but that will not stop conservative judges from prohibiting an admissions system that considers a race or results in disparate impact since a court decision impacts an entire state or multiple states. The judge may not care about TJ but would certainly love to strike down a system that allows for a boost for blacks. They hate racial preferences period.

you say this with such certainty, but still haven't cited a single case

I am not in the business of giving free legal advise.

That is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read on DCUM. The misspelling of “advice” at the end elevates it to just another level of stupid altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

So dumb it down so non-Asians can handle TJ courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

But it's the rat race that put TJ on the map. Before the rat race started in the 80's, it was just a regular, underutilized HS in Alexandria. So we have a chicken and egg problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

White numbers may go up slightly but that will not stop conservative judges from prohibiting an admissions system that considers a race or results in disparate impact since a court decision impacts an entire state or multiple states. The judge may not care about TJ but would certainly love to strike down a system that allows for a boost for blacks. They hate racial preferences period.

I have to assume that folks who post this sort of nonsense haven't grown up in countries with a functioning rule of law. "Disparate impact" is not a magic word that one can throw around and immediately get the response one wants, nor are "conservative judges" going to overturn years of precedent just to protect admissions at one public school in Virginia.

For what it's worth, "disparate impact" is not determined based on the status quo, but rather on the general population. So...a lottery system that grants more slots to majority white sending middle schools could trigger a disparate impact ruling, but a random lottery for all kids who pass a certain threshold? There's no disparate impact there, unless you compare against the current population, and that's not how the law works.

Wasted 422k , I hope this will not happen in future at TJ

https://westnovanews.com/stories/555367615-loudoun-county-public-schools-spent-422k-on-controversial-critical-race-theory-curriculum-in-past-two-years?s=08#.X2qG7wxscZg.twitter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

But it's the rat race that put TJ on the map. Before the rat race started in the 80's, it was just a regular, underutilized HS in Alexandria. So we have a chicken and egg problem.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have an advanced STEM curriculum with excellent students WITHOUT the rat-race issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

But it's the rat race that put TJ on the map. Before the rat race started in the 80's, it was just a regular, underutilized HS in Alexandria. So we have a chicken and egg problem.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have an advanced STEM curriculum with excellent students WITHOUT the rat-race issue.

not really- if a school sticks out as better and has a reputation that is known to colleges, people will try to get in. If there are more people who want in than there are available slots, it will be more competitive to get in. Once you have a student body who is in and realizes they need to do well to actually have those doors open, you get a rat race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

But it's the rat race that put TJ on the map. Before the rat race started in the 80's, it was just a regular, underutilized HS in Alexandria. So we have a chicken and egg problem.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have an advanced STEM curriculum with excellent students WITHOUT the rat-race issue.

I believe it, there are advanced STEM curriculums all over the country. What I'm saying is there's probably no other public high school where half of the graduating class are NMSQT semifinalists, sends 10+ students each to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/MIT/Stanford every year, in additional to ~100 each to UVA and Virginia Tech. That piques people's interests, and makes companies want to donate to TJ...hence you get all this sophisticated STEM equipment that other advanced STEM high schools don't have. If you want to turn TJ into another Langley/Mclean HS, then sure do the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

But it's the rat race that put TJ on the map. Before the rat race started in the 80's, it was just a regular, underutilized HS in Alexandria. So we have a chicken and egg problem.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have an advanced STEM curriculum with excellent students WITHOUT the rat-race issue.

I believe it, there are advanced STEM curriculums all over the country. What I'm saying is there's probably no other public high school where half of the graduating class are NMSQT semifinalists, sends 10+ students each to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/MIT/Stanford every year, in additional to ~100 each to UVA and Virginia Tech. That piques people's interests, and makes companies want to donate to TJ...hence you get all this sophisticated STEM equipment that other advanced STEM high schools don't have. If you want to turn TJ into another Langley/Mclean HS, then sure do the lottery.

So many errors! I picture you jumping up and down with steam gushing from your ears!
Half nsf semi finalists? Less than a third are.
10 to Stanford every year? They have not sent nearly that many for many years!
100 to uva and va tech! Check the actual numbers...nowhere near that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

But it's the rat race that put TJ on the map. Before the rat race started in the 80's, it was just a regular, underutilized HS in Alexandria. So we have a chicken and egg problem.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have an advanced STEM curriculum with excellent students WITHOUT the rat-race issue.

I believe it, there are advanced STEM curriculums all over the country. What I'm saying is there's probably no other public high school where half of the graduating class are NMSQT semifinalists, sends 10+ students each to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/MIT/Stanford every year, in additional to ~100 each to UVA and Virginia Tech. That piques people's interests, and makes companies want to donate to TJ...hence you get all this sophisticated STEM equipment that other advanced STEM high schools don't have. If you want to turn TJ into another Langley/Mclean HS, then sure do the lottery.

So many errors! I picture you jumping up and down with steam gushing from your ears!
Half nsf semi finalists? Less than a third are.
10 to Stanford every year? They have not sent nearly that many for many years!
100 to uva and va tech! Check the actual numbers...nowhere near that.

For 2020, UVA was 40, W&M 19, and VT 16. These have all been going down over time. Back in 2012 it was UVA 105, W&M 55, VT 25. More and more TJ graduates are going out of state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think a disparate impact approach is going to work here, because the only way to argue "disparate impact" is to uphold the status quo.

Yes, a lottery will have a disparate impact on Asian and white students, but only insofar as NOT having a lottery upholds the current status quo, which is really not how that legal argument has traditionally been interpreted.

The lottery will increase white students! It only reduces Asian American students.

Please note white students don't want to go here. White applications have been declining and white acceptance has been declining.

Likely true in general. But if they implement a lottery, Asian numbers will decrease because many kids gun for TJ starting in elementary school and lottery reduces the prep advantage. Don't get me wrong, I assume white kids gun for TJ too, but at smaller numbers.

The thing I don't understand from reading the threads is (I'm generalizing/summarizing): White students don't want to go to TJ. Brown students don't want to go to TJ. Asian students really want to go to TJ. And we do a lottery which will lead to fewer Asian students going to TJ? In what kind of suck ass county does that make sense?

The kind of county that realizes that many students don't want to go to TJ as it is now because it is too much of a rat race/pressure cooker because of an over emphasis on prepping by the students who currently attend TJ. If the rat race environment is reduced by the new admissions process, a broader cross section of kids will want to go there.

But it's the rat race that put TJ on the map. Before the rat race started in the 80's, it was just a regular, underutilized HS in Alexandria. So we have a chicken and egg problem.

Believe it or not, it is possible to have an advanced STEM curriculum with excellent students WITHOUT the rat-race issue.

I believe it, there are advanced STEM curriculums all over the country. What I'm saying is there's probably no other public high school where half of the graduating class are NMSQT semifinalists, sends 10+ students each to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/MIT/Stanford every year, in additional to ~100 each to UVA and Virginia Tech. That piques people's interests, and makes companies want to donate to TJ...hence you get all this sophisticated STEM equipment that other advanced STEM high schools don't have. If you want to turn TJ into another Langley/Mclean HS, then sure do the lottery.

So many errors! I picture you jumping up and down with steam gushing from your ears!
Half nsf semi finalists? Less than a third are.
10 to Stanford every year? They have not sent nearly that many for many years!
100 to uva and va tech! Check the actual numbers...nowhere near that.

For 2020, UVA was 40, W&M 19, and VT 16. These have all been going down over time. Back in 2012 it was UVA 105, W&M 55, VT 25. More and more TJ graduates are going out of state.

The tjtoday list doesn't look like it adds up to 440. List is likely incomplete because some students don't respond.