Why do men assume their wife will become a SAHM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For one because a lot of men grew up with SAHM who did everything so that's their expectation for a happy home. Some didn't of course. But some also grew up with working moms where it made it more stressful and so they want the opposite experience in their home.
My dh is a rare breed where his mom worked part time and he realized how unfulfilled she was with that. She was a good mom but she could have done so much more but couldn't really go against the society grain. I make more than dh and we both work but it's a true partnership. He does 50% regularly and much more many times. He took long paternity leaves with each of our kids and didn't call me for help those days.

YOur sons will probably make amazing husbands.

Thank you both for being part of the solution!

[Anonymous]

Because that is how it has been for generations and even now that is the experience most men have growing up.

As others have said the discussion needs to happen before having kids. Most women and some men are not comfortable outsourcing raising a child.

Men and women are different and especially when kids are younger women have more of a nurturing instinct than men do. That's a biological fact

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve stepped back just to see what would happen. It’s 12:45 and the kids haven’t gotten lunch yet. They’re crying and hungry. Dh is oblivious to this. This is basically how every mana operates. Until a woman tells him to feed the kids he won’t.

How does this relate to the original question though?

It’s men not stepping up. Everything falls on women so that’s why they sah. Men just assume their wives will do the heavy lift with children.

Dh is an excellent father btw and I work and have a great career.

So your take is men are just lazy and that's why they assume their wives will stay home? Because the question isn't why women stay home, it was why do most men assume they will.


And if you allow me to pick on you a bit, I see the bold often DH ignores basic needs of a child, but he's involved is excellent, how can one ignore the basic needs of a child and be excellent?

We have people ready to call CPS on a mom for not wiping her child's nose, not having a hat on a baby, not breastfeeding., but a man can ignore the basics and be considered great.

And I will say here, that I know it's not all men, because I know some really great and attentive fathers.

It is laziness but men are oblivious to their own laziness and the emotional burden of kids. What man shoe shops, picks out birthday presents for kids, decorates their rooms, etc. Even if both work, the woman has to do that stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with awoman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I now one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of ecpexting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

As long as SO many women model this "lifestyle" for future generations, it will be hard to change.

There are so many wealthy women on this forum who won't OWN this part of the legacy they are leaving.

It is one thing before your kids start school. It is quite another when your kids are in middle school and high school.
Why is it okay that someone pays for your food and housing, like they do for their children?

The height of irony are the stay at home moms who complain that their husbands don't do enough around the house. How much do you do around his office?

This is coming from a woman, who works outside the home and is a good mom also.

Your bias against sahm is strong. It's not for you. Fine. When you talk about the dh buying the food, etc as if she's a kid, the critical element you are missing is HER facilitation of HIS success.

Or so you tell yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve stepped back just to see what would happen. It’s 12:45 and the kids haven’t gotten lunch yet. They’re crying and hungry. Dh is oblivious to this. This is basically how every mana operates. Until a woman tells him to feed the kids he won’t.

How does this relate to the original question though?

It’s men not stepping up. Everything falls on women so that’s why they sah. Men just assume their wives will do the heavy lift with children.

Dh is an excellent father btw and I work and have a great career.

So your take is men are just lazy and that's why they assume their wives will stay home? Because the question isn't why women stay home, it was why do most men assume they will.


And if you allow me to pick on you a bit, I see the bold often DH ignores basic needs of a child, but he's involved is excellent, how can one ignore the basic needs of a child and be excellent?

We have people ready to call CPS on a mom for not wiping her child's nose, not having a hat on a baby, not breastfeeding., but a man can ignore the basics and be considered great.

And I will say here, that I know it's not all men, because I know some really great and attentive fathers.

It is laziness but men are oblivious to their own laziness and the emotional burden of kids. What man shoe shops, picks out birthday presents for kids, decorates their rooms, etc. Even if both work, the woman has to do that stuff.

In fairness, I do know some men who do this, but it''s usually only afte mom putting her foot down and saying she can't and won't do it all. I can think of maybe one who just did it on his own.

So we're back at the idea that's it's how we're socialized early on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with awoman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I now one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of ecpexting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

My DH thought i would SAH because he made 3x what I make (and I have a good paying career myself) and doesn’t trust paid caregivers.

But since he is not your father, he should not be deciding for you.

I think women who marry wealthy men better confirm that they will have an equal voice in family decisions.

And I do think the more your life approximates that of a "kept woman," the fewer legs you will have to stand on.

(You can't have it both ways. Expect to be cared for like a child, expect to be treated like a child)

No offense pp, but you're kind of derailing.. It's not a bashing SAHM thread. The PP you are responding to answered the question, you may not like the reasoning, but she answered the original question.

My point is that men expect it because there are so many women in our culture who transactionally jump at this arrangement.

So, if their wife expects more equality, they balk. They miss the barbie/ donna reids they see in the mini-vans (oh, make that SUV in 2020). We all need to evolve if we want to advance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mine expected me to stay home and handle all of the kid and house stuff.....while still making 6 figures. Not sure how that works. But when I was SAHM, he resented that I didn’t make money. When I worked, he resented that it infringed on his career.

I think males in our society are raised to be entitled, while females are raised to sacrifice for others. They’re deep seated cultural beliefs that most people don’t even realize they have.

I see it even among SAH parents - SAHMs do way more for their kids, while the SAHDs I see are focused on themselves and ignore their kids, play on their phone, etc.

Where do you see all these SAHDs to make such a generalization?

What I see more commonly is intensive (s)mothering by women while dads give kids more space to explore and learn.

[Anonymous]

We still have a society that expects men to work and women to do most of the child care whether they WOH or not, and it’s hard to break free of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with awoman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I now one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of ecpexting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

My DH thought i would SAH because he made 3x what I make (and I have a good paying career myself) and doesn’t trust paid caregivers.

But since he is not your father, he should not be deciding for you.

I think women who marry wealthy men better confirm that they will have an equal voice in family decisions.

And I do think the more your life approximates that of a "kept woman," the fewer legs you will have to stand on.

(You can't have it both ways. Expect to be cared for like a child, expect to be treated like a child)

No offense pp, but you're kind of derailing.. It's not a bashing SAHM thread. The PP you are responding to answered the question, you may not like the reasoning, but she answered the original question.

My point is that men expect it because there are so many women in our culture who transactionally jump at this arrangement.

So, if their wife expects more equality, they balk. They miss the barbie/ donna reids they see in the mini-vans (oh, make that SUV in 2020). We all need to evolve if we want to advance.

Bull. What I would miss, if I wasn’t working full time, is the house, cars, and food my salary can pay for, and my wife’s salary can’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Umm. Mine never did. He's proud of my career. And, we don't need my salary (though it's a great one!).

I am lucky I have always had great flexibility/WAH after kids.

I know. It’s 2020. All of my female cousins, sister and mother have thriving careers: STEM, law, medicine, finance, etc.

What world do you people live in? Education and careers are big in my family.

I’m 50 and live in a neighborhood of $1.5-3 million homes and almost all of the women have prestigious careers. They don’t need the $, husbands make enough.

I love my job. I’m proud to earn my own retirement.

And nobody can ever walk all over you because you have the means to leave any situation. It’s power.

Did you notice though that even you assume that if one partner doesn’t work it would be the woman. You said the women don’t need to work, they do it because they want to.

That’s because PP is a a nasty, privileged, clueless old hag. She most probably grew up in the “good old days” with toxic ideas about wealth, privilege, and gender equality, all while looking down on the less fortunate who weren’t able to get the same education or become as rich as her.

#notlazy

[Anonymous]

The men in our neighborhood (everyone has HS and middle school age kids) With SAH wives talk so negatively about them. The loss of equality in the marriage. Sitting home 6.5 hours a day...and then complaining they have to go to the grocery store or cook a meal. The kids this age do not need them anymore. They want to be with their friends not SAHM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine expected me to stay home and handle all of the kid and house stuff.....while still making 6 figures. Not sure how that works. But when I was SAHM, he resented that I didn’t make money. When I worked, he resented that it infringed on his career.

I think males in our society are raised to be entitled, while females are raised to sacrifice for others. They’re deep seated cultural beliefs that most people don’t even realize they have.

I see it even among SAH parents - SAHMs do way more for their kids, while the SAHDs I see are focused on themselves and ignore their kids, play on their phone, etc.

+1

I was SAH for about six months after my daughter was born and have been WFH with some part-time childcare since then. I view my time with my child as an opportunity to spend time with my child, not a vacation. I have always invested a lot of energy into making sure we are doing things that are stimulating for her, reading to her, paying attention to what she eats, to her schedule, to making sure she is getting enough sleep, to teaching her about the world and also just having lots of quality time with her playing and cuddling and connecting.

My husband can do this for one hour, max. Even that is pushing it -- he's usually on his phone in 15 minutes. When I am working on weekends and he is with our child, she will always wind up coming to find me at reliable times because she is getting hungry or bored and he isn't paying close enough attention to her or to the time. I frequently have to stop my work to pop my head in and say "Has she eaten lunch?" He would also let her watch hours of television uninterrupted if he didn't know I'd be pissed about this. I am certain that when I have to be out of the house for work events and he is home with her, that he plops her in front of the television for hours. Nevermind that if one of our sitters had ever done this with her, he'd be livid ("what are we paying her for?").

Also when he stays home with her so I can do a work thing, I always come home to a messy house and not only is there no dinner in the works, he has barely thought about it. When I am home with our daughter, I'm always keeping track of how messy the house is, cleaning as I'm going, doing a deep clean once a week (all while also getting work done and supervising our sitter). I plan meals several days in advance so we are never at a total loss for what to do for dinner (even if it's just "okay, casserole monday, leftovers tuesday, then take-out wednesday so we can have a break").

The pandemic has made him a little better, but the pull of his phone, zoning out, and not caring is still very strong. He still approaches our lives much as he did when we were in our late 20s with no kid and two jobs out of the house. It doesn't occur to him that we can't just postpone Saturday breakfast until he feels like it -- our kid will lose her mind if she doesn't get breakfast until 11:30. We can't just ignore her schedule -- if she doesn't take naps eat timely meals and go to bed at a reasonable time, she becomes grumpy and challenging. But then when he does this stuff he blames her (she doesn't listen to me like she listens to you) instead of looking for ways to parent better so that she stays regulated. I don't even consider myself a strict or rule-following mom in this respect -- I just pay attention to my kid and try to anticipate her basic needs and then respond to her behavior with solutions instead of just assuming she's an asshole.

I hope that as our daughter gets older and can talk to him more (and regulate some of her needs on her own) that he will grow into his role more. I have to be careful not to criticize or suggest too much because he gets defensive. But there's no question to me that I am an active, attentive parent and he is not. He could not cut it as a SAHD, and if he did it, I think we'd be dealing with a ton of behavioral issues right now. I think his parents set terrible examples for him and that he honestly has no idea how to parent young children and most of what he is able to do well now is because I have set a good example. It's alarming. No one taught me how to do this either, but I a have been motivated to learn. I don't get why he is not.

So many men sound so selfish. It makes them hardly appealing, and I am not gay!

I remember once going on a field trip with my child (I took a vacation day from work). A dad was there, who I know is a cardiac surgeon). I watched him on the trip, and I don't think he spent more than 3 minutes with his son. he made no attempt to interact with him. On the bus ride home, I heard him call his wife and say how great it was for him to have quality time with the boy.

Men and women are different. It was touched upon a couple of posts back. Men simply aren't as emotionally and mentally connected to their kids as most women are. The dad may very well have had a great time "connecting" with his kid. If the kid is male, he likely felt the same. This is likely the reason most caregivers are female: males simply aren't equipped to do it to women's standards. Not saying dad won't keep the kid alive, just that that is the most you can expect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a knock on moms that choose to stay home of their own volition.

I'm talking about guys who marry a woman with a career. Guys that get with awoman knowing her career is important to her, that she spent years getting into her position, same as he did, that just assume she'll stay home because he doesn't like daycare or his mom stayed home, and his brother's wife stays home, or because he makes money?


Why is it overwhelmingly the woman who is expected to sacrifice her career ,even if it's not what she wants.


To be fair, I now one dad who altered his career to stay home when his kids were small instead of ecpexting his wife, too, but why is this so rare?

As long as SO many women model this "lifestyle" for future generations, it will be hard to change.

There are so many wealthy women on this forum who won't OWN this part of the legacy they are leaving.

It is one thing before your kids start school. It is quite another when your kids are in middle school and high school.
Why is it okay that someone pays for your food and housing, like they do for their children?

The height of irony are the stay at home moms who complain that their husbands don't do enough around the house. How much do you do around his office?

This is coming from a woman, who works outside the home and is a good mom also.

Your bias against sahm is strong. It's not for you. Fine. When you talk about the dh buying the food, etc as if she's a kid, the critical element you are missing is HER facilitation of HIS success.

Or so you tell yourself.

If men were required to do even 50% of the child related work, they're careers would surely suffer. Someone posted about how even women who work outside the home are expected to do the majority of the child related duties. It's true. I am happy to support my dh by caring for the family and household so he can focus on his career. I married someone who actually loves and values me and what I do. I had a career for 20 years before I had children. We planned for me to sah. We lived off of one salary for many, many years. My income was largely saved and invested and continues to generate interest. I know my kids are being cared for well because I am the one doing it. My dh considers his money our money and I manage the finances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine expected me to stay home and handle all of the kid and house stuff.....while still making 6 figures. Not sure how that works. But when I was SAHM, he resented that I didn’t make money. When I worked, he resented that it infringed on his career.

I think males in our society are raised to be entitled, while females are raised to sacrifice for others. They’re deep seated cultural beliefs that most people don’t even realize they have.

I see it even among SAH parents - SAHMs do way more for their kids, while the SAHDs I see are focused on themselves and ignore their kids, play on their phone, etc.

+1

I was SAH for about six months after my daughter was born and have been WFH with some part-time childcare since then. I view my time with my child as an opportunity to spend time with my child, not a vacation. I have always invested a lot of energy into making sure we are doing things that are stimulating for her, reading to her, paying attention to what she eats, to her schedule, to making sure she is getting enough sleep, to teaching her about the world and also just having lots of quality time with her playing and cuddling and connecting.

My husband can do this for one hour, max. Even that is pushing it -- he's usually on his phone in 15 minutes. When I am working on weekends and he is with our child, she will always wind up coming to find me at reliable times because she is getting hungry or bored and he isn't paying close enough attention to her or to the time. I frequently have to stop my work to pop my head in and say "Has she eaten lunch?" He would also let her watch hours of television uninterrupted if he didn't know I'd be pissed about this. I am certain that when I have to be out of the house for work events and he is home with her, that he plops her in front of the television for hours. Nevermind that if one of our sitters had ever done this with her, he'd be livid ("what are we paying her for?").

Also when he stays home with her so I can do a work thing, I always come home to a messy house and not only is there no dinner in the works, he has barely thought about it. When I am home with our daughter, I'm always keeping track of how messy the house is, cleaning as I'm going, doing a deep clean once a week (all while also getting work done and supervising our sitter). I plan meals several days in advance so we are never at a total loss for what to do for dinner (even if it's just "okay, casserole monday, leftovers tuesday, then take-out wednesday so we can have a break").

The pandemic has made him a little better, but the pull of his phone, zoning out, and not caring is still very strong. He still approaches our lives much as he did when we were in our late 20s with no kid and two jobs out of the house. It doesn't occur to him that we can't just postpone Saturday breakfast until he feels like it -- our kid will lose her mind if she doesn't get breakfast until 11:30. We can't just ignore her schedule -- if she doesn't take naps eat timely meals and go to bed at a reasonable time, she becomes grumpy and challenging. But then when he does this stuff he blames her (she doesn't listen to me like she listens to you) instead of looking for ways to parent better so that she stays regulated. I don't even consider myself a strict or rule-following mom in this respect -- I just pay attention to my kid and try to anticipate her basic needs and then respond to her behavior with solutions instead of just assuming she's an asshole.

I hope that as our daughter gets older and can talk to him more (and regulate some of her needs on her own) that he will grow into his role more. I have to be careful not to criticize or suggest too much because he gets defensive. But there's no question to me that I am an active, attentive parent and he is not. He could not cut it as a SAHD, and if he did it, I think we'd be dealing with a ton of behavioral issues right now. I think his parents set terrible examples for him and that he honestly has no idea how to parent young children and most of what he is able to do well now is because I have set a good example. It's alarming. No one taught me how to do this either, but I a have been motivated to learn. I don't get why he is not.

So many men sound so selfish. It makes them hardly appealing, and I am not gay!

I remember once going on a field trip with my child (I took a vacation day from work). A dad was there, who I know is a cardiac surgeon). I watched him on the trip, and I don't think he spent more than 3 minutes with his son. he made no attempt to interact with him. On the bus ride home, I heard him call his wife and say how great it was for him to have quality time with the boy.

Men and women are different. It was touched upon a couple of posts back. Men simply aren't as emotionally and mentally connected to their kids as most women are. The dad may very well have had a great time "connecting" with his kid. If the kid is male, he likely felt the same. This is likely the reason most caregivers are female: males simply aren't equipped to do it to women's standards. Not saying dad won't keep the kid alive, just that that is the most you can expect.

I disagree. I was raised by a single father who was more heavily involved with us than any mom I've ever known. So they *can* do it, most just choose not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine expected me to stay home and handle all of the kid and house stuff.....while still making 6 figures. Not sure how that works. But when I was SAHM, he resented that I didn’t make money. When I worked, he resented that it infringed on his career.

I think males in our society are raised to be entitled, while females are raised to sacrifice for others. They’re deep seated cultural beliefs that most people don’t even realize they have.

I see it even among SAH parents - SAHMs do way more for their kids, while the SAHDs I see are focused on themselves and ignore their kids, play on their phone, etc.

+1

I was SAH for about six months after my daughter was born and have been WFH with some part-time childcare since then. I view my time with my child as an opportunity to spend time with my child, not a vacation. I have always invested a lot of energy into making sure we are doing things that are stimulating for her, reading to her, paying attention to what she eats, to her schedule, to making sure she is getting enough sleep, to teaching her about the world and also just having lots of quality time with her playing and cuddling and connecting.

My husband can do this for one hour, max. Even that is pushing it -- he's usually on his phone in 15 minutes. When I am working on weekends and he is with our child, she will always wind up coming to find me at reliable times because she is getting hungry or bored and he isn't paying close enough attention to her or to the time. I frequently have to stop my work to pop my head in and say "Has she eaten lunch?" He would also let her watch hours of television uninterrupted if he didn't know I'd be pissed about this. I am certain that when I have to be out of the house for work events and he is home with her, that he plops her in front of the television for hours. Nevermind that if one of our sitters had ever done this with her, he'd be livid ("what are we paying her for?").

Also when he stays home with her so I can do a work thing, I always come home to a messy house and not only is there no dinner in the works, he has barely thought about it. When I am home with our daughter, I'm always keeping track of how messy the house is, cleaning as I'm going, doing a deep clean once a week (all while also getting work done and supervising our sitter). I plan meals several days in advance so we are never at a total loss for what to do for dinner (even if it's just "okay, casserole monday, leftovers tuesday, then take-out wednesday so we can have a break").

The pandemic has made him a little better, but the pull of his phone, zoning out, and not caring is still very strong. He still approaches our lives much as he did when we were in our late 20s with no kid and two jobs out of the house. It doesn't occur to him that we can't just postpone Saturday breakfast until he feels like it -- our kid will lose her mind if she doesn't get breakfast until 11:30. We can't just ignore her schedule -- if she doesn't take naps eat timely meals and go to bed at a reasonable time, she becomes grumpy and challenging. But then when he does this stuff he blames her (she doesn't listen to me like she listens to you) instead of looking for ways to parent better so that she stays regulated. I don't even consider myself a strict or rule-following mom in this respect -- I just pay attention to my kid and try to anticipate her basic needs and then respond to her behavior with solutions instead of just assuming she's an asshole.

I hope that as our daughter gets older and can talk to him more (and regulate some of her needs on her own) that he will grow into his role more. I have to be careful not to criticize or suggest too much because he gets defensive. But there's no question to me that I am an active, attentive parent and he is not. He could not cut it as a SAHD, and if he did it, I think we'd be dealing with a ton of behavioral issues right now. I think his parents set terrible examples for him and that he honestly has no idea how to parent young children and most of what he is able to do well now is because I have set a good example. It's alarming. No one taught me how to do this either, but I a have been motivated to learn. I don't get why he is not.

So many men sound so selfish. It makes them hardly appealing, and I am not gay!

I remember once going on a field trip with my child (I took a vacation day from work). A dad was there, who I know is a cardiac surgeon). I watched him on the trip, and I don't think he spent more than 3 minutes with his son. he made no attempt to interact with him. On the bus ride home, I heard him call his wife and say how great it was for him to have quality time with the boy.

Men and women are different. It was touched upon a couple of posts back. Men simply aren't as emotionally and mentally connected to their kids as most women are. The dad may very well have had a great time "connecting" with his kid. If the kid is male, he likely felt the same. This is likely the reason most caregivers are female: males simply aren't equipped to do it to women's standards. Not saying dad won't keep the kid alive, just that that is the most you can expect.

I disagree. I was raised by a single father who was more heavily involved with us than any mom I've ever known. So they *can* do it, most just choose not to.

I agree with above PP. This is not biology, it's socialization. We are socialized this way from birth. Women are taught to be caregivers and shamed when they are not. There are women who don't want to be moms and get relentless pressure from others to have kids and take care of those kids.

There are probably more men than you know of who would love to stop having the burden of being the sole bread winner and stay home with their kids, but they'd take so much sh*t if they did . Not to mention that it is the sexism in our current society that leads to most women having the lower paying jobs.