Rant- helpless dads!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every dad I know who is helpless is partially that way because he has a wife who enables him. Some of these moms rarely if ever go anywhere. They never go or for a girls night, don’t work and don’t go on trips without their husband and kids.

I admit that I am a but like this. I like that I’m the primary parent and my husband depends on me for the care of the children. I do go out and travel without them 1x a year, but that just makes him appreciate me even more. He thinks I am super mom and I love it.

Interesting—I admit I don’t know many people like thus. I’m curious, what was your identity before motherhood?

I was a top student throughout college but have wanted to be a SAHM for as long as I can remember. My mom was not. She was loving but worked and was a poor time manager. I never got much of her time and she was always frazzled. Most of my friends had SAHM’s (this was the 80’s) and it seemed so idyllic to me.

My husband can take care of the kids/entertain them/keep them safe/feed them, but he has no clue about their clothing/shoe sizes, when their after school activities are, what kind of homework they have and when it’s due, etc. He’s never filled out one of those dull repetitive info sheets the school makes you fill out at the beginning of the year.

[Anonymous]

Sitting here reading this thread with my own helpless husband. OP, I don't know who you are, but I wish we were friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mothers, make sure you don't baby your sons. Are you teaching them how to do chores? How to go grocery shopping? How to do the laundry? How to make their beds everyday? How to put away their clothes? They can start folding their clothes at 4. It won't be perfect but let them own it. Don't enable them. And make them carry their own back pack after school if you go pick them up. Have a routine for them about how they rinse out their food containers and place the containers into the dishwasher after school. And if the dishwasher is clean, have them empty it and then start loading it again. If they say they don't know how to do something, teach them. Don't create problems for your future daughter in law.

Shouldn’t that say “Mothers and fathers” especially given the subject we are discussing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH is helpless when it comes to kids and most household things and he prefers it this way. It’s how he was raised. To him it’s woman’s work, and it took years of squabbling and nagging to get him to improve a bit, but his fundamental mind set will never change. My MIL will swoon and praise him because he’ unload a dishwasher when they are over like it’s some kind of heroic feat...We have two sons, and I swear they will know how to cook and clean up after themselves!

How old are they? Funny how often little boys can sweet talk their mommies into, or out of just about anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mothers, make sure you don't baby your sons. Are you teaching them how to do chores? How to go grocery shopping? How to do the laundry? How to make their beds everyday? How to put away their clothes? They can start folding their clothes at 4. It won't be perfect but let them own it. Don't enable them. And make them carry their own back pack after school if you go pick them up. Have a routine for them about how they rinse out their food containers and place the containers into the dishwasher after school. And if the dishwasher is clean, have them empty it and then start loading it again. If they say they don't know how to do something, teach them. Don't create problems for your future daughter in law.

Shouldn’t that say “Mothers and fathers” especially given the subject we are discussing.

DP. From what I see, it’s usually the *mothers* who coddle their boys, thus creating future lazy/bad boys.

[Anonymous]

One of the best things about my divorce is that it forced my exDH to be a hands on parent since he has no other option. He’s amazing with our DD, with the sole exception of doing her hair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the best things about my divorce is that it forced my exDH to be a hands on parent since he has no other option. He’s amazing with our DD, with the sole exception of doing her hair.

Me too! When we were married, I did a lot more than he realized at the time. I did all the "remembering," silent workload, etc. He was very hands on but still had no earthly idea about clothing, school stuff, etc. Now, I still do the majority but he has had to become much more competent. I enabled his helplessness by not forcing it. At the time, I just didn't want to have to parent another person ("Okay DH, go pick out her outfit, make sure it matches..." "did you notice her shoes are getting tight, go on Amazon prime and order new ones..." etc.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every dad I know who is helpless is partially that way because he has a wife who enables him. Some of these moms rarely if ever go anywhere. They never go or for a girls night, don’t work and don’t go on trips without their husband and kids.

I admit that I am a but like this. I like that I’m the primary parent and my husband depends on me for the care of the children. I do go out and travel without them 1x a year, but that just makes him appreciate me even more. He thinks I am super mom and I love it.

Interesting—I admit I don’t know many people like thus. I’m curious, what was your identity before motherhood?

I was a top student throughout college but have wanted to be a SAHM for as long as I can remember. My mom was not. She was loving but worked and was a poor time manager. I never got much of her time and she was always frazzled. Most of my friends had SAHM’s (this was the 80’s) and it seemed so idyllic to me.

My husband can take care of the kids/entertain them/keep them safe/feed them, but he has no clue about their clothing/shoe sizes, when their after school activities are, what kind of homework they have and when it’s due, etc. He’s never filled out one of those dull repetitive info sheets the school makes you fill out at the beginning of the year.

PP here. My parents both worked, AND my dad was very hands on. Some of my best memories growing up are my sibs and I playing with my dad, or eating some of his meals that I loved--he cooked a mean spaghetti, chicken curry, etc. I wanted a hands on, competent husband as a partner, since I also work FT in a demanding career and think kids benefit when both parents are involved. Interesting how our formative experiences shape us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recognize my dh in the OP.

He is awesome. So I actually wonder how hard other people have it... if he is helpless sometimes. I’ve seen some other wives have it much worse: DHs who are obsessed with work or really checked out.

But anyway, dh will never ever ever fully appreciate what’s its like to share the kid load. He’d be like the airplane guy. Probably had just started some phone game and annoyed that his game is getting interrupted. I can understand that but if I’m the on the verge of tears bc the kids are arguing, or having a tantrum over crazy, crazy 3yo stuff(!) then he just doesn’t get how much he could help.

So your husband is obsessed with work? Does he draw any pay for that? Is he keeping all his pay for himself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, who booked the tickets with Mom in front with 2 kids and dad behind chilling by himself on that plane ride? Why not do 2X2? Who buys those shoes? Who does all the childcare? You have to refuse to be the default if you don't want that to be the case. This is why I am choosing not to BF, so DH can do childcare too from early age. Otherwise - mom has boobs, she can soothe the baby better. Mom knows better how to feed the kid, which daycare to pick, which shoes to buy, which doctor to make an appointment with, how to keep kids happy on a plane ride. Daddy is happily a chopped liver, from the get go without having ever to pull his own weight. Um, no.

I largely agree with you--women need to insist that men step up. I think a lot of women prefer to be the primary caregiver and derive a lot of their identity from this role, so while it's tiring, they don't insist on more equitable co-parenting.

The one place where I might disagree with you slightly is the breastfeeding. It is more challenging to coparent equally when breastfeeding, but I think it can be done. When I was pregnant, I heard from other couples that mom can breastfeed at night while dad does diaper change and puts the baby back to bed, so that's what we did. I think it just takes a serious discussion or three about expectations way before the first kid gets here. We had this discussion when talking about marriage--I was not willing to have kids unless we coparented pretty equally. So my husband knew from the outset that it had to be this way.

IMO, I don't think this is it. I think it's because moms want the best for their children, while a lot of men are fine with bare minimum effort. Sure, some moms want "perfection" and at times, it can be unreasonable, but I find many dads have the bare minimum threshold parenting style.

It's complex. "Wanting the best" seems to be a pretty elastic term - being a mommy martyr, one upping other moms and competitive parenting also can be framed as "wanting the best". My MIL gets up at 5 and squeezes fresh juice for DH's breakfast whenever we visit - hey, she wants the best, and that's the model of family he internalized (she had a full time job all along too). Then of course she spends the rest of the day guilt tripping him, but that's a separate thing.

I think unless you expect more, and hand things over, most of DHs don't feel motivated to step up from the bare minimum. If they are actually responsible for something and have space to learn, and yes, fail of fumble until they find their way, then they will step up. Otherwise "what do you want me to do?" with a tone. Don't book 3x1 seats, ever, both literally and metaphorically. 2x2, if you want DH involved. If not - it's ok too, just own your choices.

PP here... like I stated, some women do have unreasonable expectations, but there is a wide range between "unreasonable expectations" and "bare minimum effort", but a lot of the dads seem to parent on the "bare minimum threshold" end of the scale.

I would've booked 2x2, and this is what we do. But, I do think that some men will purposefully do a bad job so that the mom intervenes. Sure, the mom can let the dad struggle along, but as a mom, I don't want my kids to have to suffer ineptness or laziness of the parent who is supposed to be in charge.

I have a friend who was in this situation -- she was the bread winner, he was the sahp. He was inept, and she let him struggle along, but at some point, she had had enough. They are now divorced. How long are you supposed to let him struggle, and the kids right along with him?

So she did the best thing for the kids by wrecking the household?

[Anonymous]

I admit I've had the same thoughts about moms and airplane seating, but then I remember that my husband and I take turns going and coming back sitting with the kids, so maybe someone sees me when it's my turn and pities me. Also, I'm scared of flying and sitting with my kids, helping them and talking to them, takes my attention away from my flying anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know, I’m going to be the voice of dissent here, but I think it’s odd seeing the dad who has it all together. Not in an odd bad way, but just in a confused odd way.

Last night we were at a BBQ with friends we hadn’t seen in a while and they had two under three. The dad was running around with perfectly timed baby wipes catching crumbs and food smears, fetching silly cups, appropriately disciplining, changing diapers, feeding. I was like, what is this? It was so odd to see a dad that together. Mom sat off to the side with wine. Maybe that was their arrangement, but even with my DH, if it was my “night off”, he’d still be coming to me to figure out what step to take next.

Also, I can’t tell if I love it or hate it, it’s just so unfamiliar.

Sounds cringe inducingly weird.

Jealous much?

Not jealous at all. I’m too type a to give up that level of control.

Level of control? Letting your partner take care of their own children is relinquishing control? Maybe there's a reason for all of these "helpless dads"...hint, it's women like you PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know, I’m going to be the voice of dissent here, but I think it’s odd seeing the dad who has it all together. Not in an odd bad way, but just in a confused odd way.

Last night we were at a BBQ with friends we hadn’t seen in a while and they had two under three. The dad was running around with perfectly timed baby wipes catching crumbs and food smears, fetching silly cups, appropriately disciplining, changing diapers, feeding. I was like, what is this? It was so odd to see a dad that together. Mom sat off to the side with wine. Maybe that was their arrangement, but even with my DH, if it was my “night off”, he’d still be coming to me to figure out what step to take next.

Also, I can’t tell if I love it or hate it, it’s just so unfamiliar.

Sounds cringe inducingly weird.

Jealous much?

Not jealous at all. I’m too type a to give up that level of control.

Level of control? Letting your partner take care of their own children is relinquishing control? Maybe there's a reason for all of these "helpless dads"...hint, it's women like you PP.

Awesome that you feel the need to tell PP how to arrange her family relationship. Obviously, the only acceptable organization of a family unit is the one that you endorse.

[Anonymous]

If you saw my family on the plane, you’d see me with two kids doing 100% of the entertaining and work while my husband is sleeping or reading. What you didn’t see was my husband up late the night before packing everything but my clothes or driving in rush hour traffic in a strange city when we landed. We’re a team. Don’t always assume that because one of us is on duty that the other parent is lazy or uninvolved. I also didn’t make my husband wake up and change diapers at night when I was breastfeeding. Unless the baby was crying for an hour or more, I did all the night feedings myself. He would do things like dinner clean up and bath time so I could rest. I think having both parents involved al the time makes for two cranky, tired parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know, I’m going to be the voice of dissent here, but I think it’s odd seeing the dad who has it all together. Not in an odd bad way, but just in a confused odd way.

Last night we were at a BBQ with friends we hadn’t seen in a while and they had two under three. The dad was running around with perfectly timed baby wipes catching crumbs and food smears, fetching silly cups, appropriately disciplining, changing diapers, feeding. I was like, what is this? It was so odd to see a dad that together. Mom sat off to the side with wine. Maybe that was their arrangement, but even with my DH, if it was my “night off”, he’d still be coming to me to figure out what step to take next.

Also, I can’t tell if I love it or hate it, it’s just so unfamiliar.

Sounds cringe inducingly weird.

Jealous much?

Not jealous at all. I’m too type a to give up that level of control.

Level of control? Letting your partner take care of their own children is relinquishing control? Maybe there's a reason for all of these "helpless dads"...hint, it's women like you PP.

Awesome that you feel the need to tell PP how to arrange her family relationship. Obviously, the only acceptable organization of a family unit is the one that you endorse.

DP. The PP made the same kind of judgement by calling it "cringe-inducingly weird" that a dad would be so involved.

is absolutely unfair to the children to not let a dad be involved if he wants to. Children need to form good solid relationships with both parents and sometimes, that relationship is formed by the tedium of every day care