Update on Harvard Lawsuit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

well, according to some people Asian Americans don't contribute to society and don't take leadership positions so that's why they are not as "attractive" to Ivies.

Obviously, there are many Asian Americans who are not only innovative but do take on leadership roles. It does indeed take time. The problem with the admissions is that Asian Americans have to have everything that a URM or white student has, PLUS more. That is where the discrimination comes in. Why does one group of students have to outperform in EVERY way compared to another group? How is that fair?

As my white DH says, Asian Americans are a victim of their own success. I suppose if the group wasn't as successful, over represented in elite universities, then maybe Asian American students would also be held to a lower standard like the others.

The arrogance is stunning and I have heard it from so many posters here. I guess it’s not ok to stereo type Asians as being “robots” but it’s perfectly fine to stereotype whites as stupid and lazy and URM as unqualified. Stereotypes are all over the place. If you are opposed to them, you shouldn’t be using them either.

finally caught on did you. Yes, stereotypes are ugly, and some in Harvard admissions seem to follow the stereotype, and many defenders of Harvard stereotype Asian American students. Hopefully, they will stop with the stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

The DOJ brief specifically mentions the personality ratings as being especially troubling. If you remember from the NYT article from June:

"Alumni interviewers give Asian-Americans personal ratings comparable to those of whites. But the admissions office gives them the worst scores of any racial group, often without even meeting them, according to Professor Arcidiacono."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-asian-enrollment-applicants.html

I remember finding this especially offensive so I am really happy that the DOJ took note of this as evidence of prejudice.

I don't know if it will make a difference for my Asian daughter who will be applying to colleges in a couple of years but perhaps it will help her daughter get a fair shake.

The other problem is that the bias seems to continue at school:

https://www.npr.org/2014/04/22/305814367/evidence-of-racial-gender-biases-found-in-faculty-mentoring

and persist after you embark upon a career (especially in STEM which is what my daughter is most interested in):

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/01/asian-americans-science-math-bias/551903/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

well, according to some people Asian Americans don't contribute to society and don't take leadership positions so that's why they are not as "attractive" to Ivies.

Obviously, there are many Asian Americans who are not only innovative but do take on leadership roles. It does indeed take time. The problem with the admissions is that Asian Americans have to have everything that a URM or white student has, PLUS more. That is where the discrimination comes in. Why does one group of students have to outperform in EVERY way compared to another group? How is that fair?

As my white DH says, Asian Americans are a victim of their own success. I suppose if the group wasn't as successful, over represented in elite universities, then maybe Asian American students would also be held to a lower standard like the others.

The arrogance is stunning and I have heard it from so many posters here. I guess it’s not ok to stereo type Asians as being “robots” but it’s perfectly fine to stereotype whites as stupid and lazy and URM as unqualified. Stereotypes are all over the place. If you are opposed to them, you shouldn’t be using them either.

finally caught on did you. Yes, stereotypes are ugly, and some in Harvard admissions seem to follow the stereotype, and many defenders of Harvard stereotype Asian American students. Hopefully, they will stop with the stereotypes.

So it's Ok for Asians to stereotype but no one else? Noted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The DOJ brief specifically mentions the personality ratings as being especially troubling. If you remember from the NYT article from June:

"Alumni interviewers give Asian-Americans personal ratings comparable to those of whites. But the admissions office gives them the worst scores of any racial group, often without even meeting them, according to Professor Arcidiacono."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-asian-enrollment-applicants.html

I remember finding this especially offensive so I am really happy that the DOJ took note of this as evidence of prejudice.

I don't know if it will make a difference for my Asian daughter who will be applying to colleges in a couple of years but perhaps it will help her daughter get a fair shake.

The other problem is that the bias seems to continue at school:

https://www.npr.org/2014/04/22/305814367/evidence-of-racial-gender-biases-found-in-faculty-mentoring

and persist after you embark upon a career (especially in STEM which is what my daughter is most interested in):

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/01/asian-americans-science-math-bias/551903/

Yep... even educated white people seem to stereotype Asian Americans and thinks it's ok:

We see tremendous bias against Asian students and that's not something we expected. So a lot of people think of Asians as a model minority group. We expect them to be treated quite well in academia, and at least in the study and in this context we see more discrimination against Indian and Chinese students that against other groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

well, according to some people Asian Americans don't contribute to society and don't take leadership positions so that's why they are not as "attractive" to Ivies.

Obviously, there are many Asian Americans who are not only innovative but do take on leadership roles. It does indeed take time. The problem with the admissions is that Asian Americans have to have everything that a URM or white student has, PLUS more. That is where the discrimination comes in. Why does one group of students have to outperform in EVERY way compared to another group? How is that fair?

As my white DH says, Asian Americans are a victim of their own success. I suppose if the group wasn't as successful, over represented in elite universities, then maybe Asian American students would also be held to a lower standard like the others.

The arrogance is stunning and I have heard it from so many posters here. I guess it’s not ok to stereo type Asians as being “robots” but it’s perfectly fine to stereotype whites as stupid and lazy and URM as unqualified. Stereotypes are all over the place. If you are opposed to them, you shouldn’t be using them either.

finally caught on did you. Yes, stereotypes are ugly, and some in Harvard admissions seem to follow the stereotype, and many defenders of Harvard stereotype Asian American students. Hopefully, they will stop with the stereotypes.

So it's Ok for Asians to stereotype but no one else? Noted.

Harvard is stereotyping Asians. People who are defending Harvard are stereotyping Asians, but defenders get riled up when URM are stereotyped. Double standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The DOJ brief specifically mentions the personality ratings as being especially troubling. If you remember from the NYT article from June:

"Alumni interviewers give Asian-Americans personal ratings comparable to those of whites. But the admissions office gives them the worst scores of any racial group, often without even meeting them, according to Professor Arcidiacono."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/harvard-asian-enrollment-applicants.html

I remember finding this especially offensive so I am really happy that the DOJ took note of this as evidence of prejudice.

I don't know if it will make a difference for my Asian daughter who will be applying to colleges in a couple of years but perhaps it will help her daughter get a fair shake.

The other problem is that the bias seems to continue at school:

https://www.npr.org/2014/04/22/305814367/evidence-of-racial-gender-biases-found-in-faculty-mentoring

and persist after you embark upon a career (especially in STEM which is what my daughter is most interested in):

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/01/asian-americans-science-math-bias/551903/

Yep... even educated white people seem to stereotype Asian Americans and thinks it's ok:

We see tremendous bias against Asian students and that's not something we expected. So a lot of people think of Asians as a model minority group. We expect them to be treated quite well in academia, and at least in the study and in this context we see more discrimination against Indian and Chinese students that against other groups.

it's because white people feel competition from them and from their 'home' countries.

[Anonymous]

In general, URMs and the disenfranchised will need to work harder to get into top schools. Top schools will become even more elite. Everyone has to bust their bottom to try to get in.
Pros and cons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

And how long have the Jews been in the country compared to Asians? The Indians are just getting started. Come back in 20 years..

east asians have beenfor 150+ years. Remember who built the railroad?

Jews are in leadership positions because they have the intellectual firepower of asians coupled with superior verbal and interpersonal skills.

Though I can start to see indians slowly joining the ranks of jewish success - albeit not as high in concentration.

If you read about Jewish immigration, you will notice that most of them were city dwellers even where they came from. Most landed up in New York, worked in the clothing industry and slowly made their way into the top echelons of NY business - Finance and Law. Eventually they made it into Medicine and other areas. Their network is also unparalleled since they always had to have a network given the Christian persecution of Jews everywhere.

Chinese on the other hand were indentured labor, not allowed to vote or own property. Cannot compare their rate of growth to the Jews.

Indians present a different case. The recent wave of Indians (not the Motel Patels) started in the 90s. These are the educated, IT skilled immigrants that now dominate IT in about 20 years. Most are dual-income and earn way more than the local mean wherever they are in this country. They are slowly getting into every non-IT area imaginable. This will likely go on for at least two more generations (another 40+ years) after which the "laws of the melting pot" will kick in as they too lose their edge and their offspring tend towards the average in terms of education, aspirations and accomplishments. However, India is a large enough country that I suspect first gen immigrants from there will keep coming into this country for a while regardless of how Trump changes immigration policy. If immigration becomes merit-based, guess who will benefit the most?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

Good points. What drives people crazy is the fact that people that we see as "undeserving" of affirmative action get the benefits. I'm talking about Nigerian kids, people with spanish ancestry, etc. Why not limit affirmative action to an income based criteria with a focus on Native americans and African americans who have lived in this country for at least 4 generations and suffered from slavery?

What Harvard and their ilk need to do is provide opportunities for URMs at an early age, identify the deserving and enable them to compete with the Whites and Asians at their level, not water down admission criteria and make the URMs and everyone else feel that they (URMs) are somehow less than the others. They are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

Good points. What drives people crazy is the fact that people that we see as "undeserving" of affirmative action get the benefits. I'm talking about Nigerian kids, people with spanish ancestry, etc. Why not limit affirmative action to an income based criteria with a focus on Native americans and African americans who have lived in this country for at least 4 generations and suffered from slavery?

What Harvard and their ilk need to do is provide opportunities for URMs at an early age, identify the deserving and enable them to compete with the Whites and Asians at their level, not water down admission criteria and make the URMs and everyone else feel that they (URMs) are somehow less than the others. They are not.

Once you start dividing people by race, you start building injustice and resentment.

Better to use an objective standard, same for all races and religions and whatever.

1) Top criteria: first in family to attend college

2) then, family income below X threshold

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

Good points. What drives people crazy is the fact that people that we see as "undeserving" of affirmative action get the benefits. I'm talking about Nigerian kids, people with spanish ancestry, etc. Why not limit affirmative action to an income based criteria with a focus on Native americans and African americans who have lived in this country for at least 4 generations and suffered from slavery?

What Harvard and their ilk need to do is provide opportunities for URMs at an early age, identify the deserving and enable them to compete with the Whites and Asians at their level, not water down admission criteria and make the URMs and everyone else feel that they (URMs) are somehow less than the others. They are not.

Yup the Obama kids do not need affirmative action and yet under current practice they would benefit from it. Its ridiculous Its 2018 enough is enough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

Good points. What drives people crazy is the fact that people that we see as "undeserving" of affirmative action get the benefits. I'm talking about Nigerian kids, people with spanish ancestry, etc. Why not limit affirmative action to an income based criteria with a focus on Native americans and African americans who have lived in this country for at least 4 generations and suffered from slavery?

What Harvard and their ilk need to do is provide opportunities for URMs at an early age, identify the deserving and enable them to compete with the Whites and Asians at their level, not water down admission criteria and make the URMs and everyone else feel that they (URMs) are somehow less than the others. They are not.

Yup the Obama kids do not need affirmative action and yet under current practice they would benefit from it. Its ridiculous Its 2018 enough is enough

Silly jerk. They are legacies. So if anything other than merit got them in, it was legacy and NOT AA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

Good points. What drives people crazy is the fact that people that we see as "undeserving" of affirmative action get the benefits. I'm talking about Nigerian kids, people with spanish ancestry, etc. Why not limit affirmative action to an income based criteria with a focus on Native americans and African americans who have lived in this country for at least 4 generations and suffered from slavery?

What Harvard and their ilk need to do is provide opportunities for URMs at an early age, identify the deserving and enable them to compete with the Whites and Asians at their level, not water down admission criteria and make the URMs and everyone else feel that they (URMs) are somehow less than the others. They are not.

Yup the Obama kids do not need affirmative action and yet under current practice they would benefit from it. Its ridiculous Its 2018 enough is enough

Silly jerk. They are legacies. So if anything other than merit got them in, it was legacy and NOT AA.

Silly jerk. They are Obama kids. So if anything other than merit got them in, it was neither AA nor legacy. It was classism at its best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard and other top schools have always made it clear that they are looking at much more than just academics. Harvard is about creating leaders, not only academic scholars, so they need to look at far more than just test scores and grades.

Excellent job at stating the obvious. And bonus points for casual racism insinuating that Asians are only excellent at academics. Utter imbecile.

The car, plane, light bulb, internet, nuclear power all must have been invented by Asians. They are so smart

You're embarrassing yourself with your stupidity but you're likely too stupid to realize it. Oh, and if you have wifi in your trailer you might want to research gunpowder, the compass and printing

FFS, people getting into a pissing contest about which race is smarter.

In the US, every aspect of society - from politics to mainstream media - has been controlled by white people. So, it's kind of hard for non white people to take on leadership roles historically Bamboo ceiling is just one example. That is changing, slowly. Look at some of the leaders in high tech; more and more Asian Americans entering politics. More and more Asians in our media.

Asian American population is small, so it's kind of hard for Asian americans to stand out as leaders. Maybe Harvard should allow in more Asian Americans so more of them will be trained by Harvard to enter into leadership roles. Now, there's an equalizer. We have enough white people in leadership roles, many who are corrupt and inept.

there are less jews than asians in the us but there are a shit ton of jews in leadership positions.

how do you explain that?

True.

Jews are a tiny minority but exercise disproportionate influence because they work damn hard.

I'd also like to point out that the Asian population was also incredibly small till fairly recently (a generation ago). Complaining that Asians had it hard because whites controlled all the roles overlooks that up through the 1980s the US was 80+ (and even approaching 90% in the 1920s-1960s) white. Well, d'oh.

Anyway, I am not sure if Asians have a problem today. Look at the ranks of leading doctors, lawyers, venture capitalists, business owners, there are now many, many, Asians. It takes a new wave of immigrants time to build their way up to the top. It always has. We forget that the Jews, Italians, Poles, etc, were once derided as non properly "white" ethnic groups and they worked their way to the top.

The African American experience, however, is indisputably different. It's more problematic. It's more complex. I am a bit on the fence on this because there are pros and cons to affirmative actions for African Americans but I've concluded that deeply flawed it is, it's likely better than the alternatives and so be it.

I do fully understand why Asian Americans may feel bitter to being held to the highest standards in the application pools for the top colleges and universities, but on the other hand, perhaps they should be thankful that they don't need affirmative action.

Good points. What drives people crazy is the fact that people that we see as "undeserving" of affirmative action get the benefits. I'm talking about Nigerian kids, people with spanish ancestry, etc. Why not limit affirmative action to an income based criteria with a focus on Native americans and African americans who have lived in this country for at least 4 generations and suffered from slavery?

What Harvard and their ilk need to do is provide opportunities for URMs at an early age, identify the deserving and enable them to compete with the Whites and Asians at their level, not water down admission criteria and make the URMs and everyone else feel that they (URMs) are somehow less than the others. They are not.

Yup the Obama kids do not need affirmative action and yet under current practice they would benefit from it. Its ridiculous Its 2018 enough is enough

Silly jerk. They are legacies. So if anything other than merit got them in, it was legacy and NOT AA.

Silly jerk. They are Obama kids. So if anything other than merit got them in, it was neither AA nor legacy. It was classism at its best.

Hooks aren’t mutually exclusive, they’re additive. So yes they would get black, legacy and celebrity parent.

[Anonymous]

Don't hold your breath. The district judge is a Middlebury grad and a Obama appointee. Harvard will surely win this first round irrespective of the merits