Kid five grade levels ahead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My seven year old, who has consistently been above 99th percentile, recently tested at end of sixth grade level for reading and math. Any advice? There is no gifted program where we live.

OP- first, those are great scores. You DC is obviously exceptionally intelligent. The test (I didn't read through the entire thread) is not an "above grade level test." Those kinds of tests are rare and usually administered for a specific reason for special programming. Even highly gifted kids rarely score higher than the 80th percentile on an above grade level test, two years ahead. They just haven't been exposed to enough academic material yet.

You DC likely took an standardized test against national norms. What "end of 6th grade level reading and math" means in that context is that your DC scored as well as a typical end of 6th grade, public school student on the same test. Your DC's results are quite meaningful, but not as meaningful as if your DC had been tested on end of 6th grade material (in which case, an average 6th grader would likely have scored much better than even a highly gifted kindergartner). Elementary school students who score 3-5 years ahead on above grade level tests are typically profoundly gifted.

Again, none of this is to say that those scores aren't rare or great-- but they may not indicate giftedness unless accompanied by some IQ data (132 or higher).

PP here- I want to edit-- those scores are a good indicator that your child is academically advanced and may be gifted. An IQ test might be in order within the next year or so--my DS showed signs of extreme giftedness and we took him for an IQ test. It helped us plan a for the academic needs of a gifted child vs. an exceptionally capable/bright child who tests well. You are the best judge- signs of giftedness in the early years are feats of abstract reasoning, advanced problem solving, and the ability to apply learning to new situations. You know it when you see it, although there will be plenty of naysayers.

OP said her child took MAP which is an adaptive test. Different grades take the same test but are expected to score at different levels. So to score in the range for 6th grade math the child needs to be familiar with the material.

PP here- I see. My son doesn't take the MAP. I looked up the scoring and it sounds like the Woodcock Johnson where the questions become progressively more difficult until the student scores below a certain number/percentage. It's not technically an above grade level test (like a 7th grader taking the ACT) but can provide a strong argument for acceleration.

I'm not pp but yes, my kids take the MAP tests and they do give progressively harder questions until the child gets too many incorrect answers. My dd scored a 231 in second grade. She is a bright girl but really I believe she is a great test taker. I can't remember what "grade level" (if you want to look at it that way) that put her at but there was no way that she actually knew the math content at the level she was testing. No one was teaching it to her so I have to assume that she was taking what she had learned and making somewhat informed guesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My seven year old, who has consistently been above 99th percentile, recently tested at end of sixth grade level for reading and math. Any advice? There is no gifted program where we live.

OP- first, those are great scores. You DC is obviously exceptionally intelligent. The test (I didn't read through the entire thread) is not an "above grade level test." Those kinds of tests are rare and usually administered for a specific reason for special programming. Even highly gifted kids rarely score higher than the 80th percentile on an above grade level test, two years ahead. They just haven't been exposed to enough academic material yet.

You DC likely took an standardized test against national norms. What "end of 6th grade level reading and math" means in that context is that your DC scored as well as a typical end of 6th grade, public school student on the same test. Your DC's results are quite meaningful, but not as meaningful as if your DC had been tested on end of 6th grade material (in which case, an average 6th grader would likely have scored much better than even a highly gifted kindergartner). Elementary school students who score 3-5 years ahead on above grade level tests are typically profoundly gifted.

Again, none of this is to say that those scores aren't rare or great-- but they may not indicate giftedness unless accompanied by some IQ data (132 or higher).

PP here- I want to edit-- those scores are a good indicator that your child is academically advanced and may be gifted. An IQ test might be in order within the next year or so--my DS showed signs of extreme giftedness and we took him for an IQ test. It helped us plan a for the academic needs of a gifted child vs. an exceptionally capable/bright child who tests well. You are the best judge- signs of giftedness in the early years are feats of abstract reasoning, advanced problem solving, and the ability to apply learning to new situations. You know it when you see it, although there will be plenty of naysayers.

OP said her child took MAP which is an adaptive test. Different grades take the same test but are expected to score at different levels. So to score in the range for 6th grade math the child needs to be familiar with the material.

PP here- I see. My son doesn't take the MAP. I looked up the scoring and it sounds like the Woodcock Johnson where the questions become progressively more difficult until the student scores below a certain number/percentage. It's not technically an above grade level test (like a 7th grader taking the ACT) but can provide a strong argument for acceleration.

OP- pp here- I am going to suggest the Davidson forum. It's a forum for parents with gifted children and/or parents who are wondering about their child's abilities but haven't done any testing- there are a number of topics, including testing/assessment, learning environments, etc. The parents there are knowledgeable- they can provide practical educational advice and won't likely judge if your child is "truly gifted." They might however become a resource if you choose to explore further testing. It's a cordial and overwhelmingly non-judgmental group.
My DS tested extremely high on the Woodcock Johnson at age seven. His math scores were so astronomically high that I thought I might get a book deal (just kidding). He did end up being exceptionally gifted via an IQ test, but his achievement scores decreased (still extremely high and advanced) as other children gained more academic knowledge. It's not an "evening out" so much as a gifted child might assimilate academic material a lot earlier than typical kids- it can cause an extremely inflated score in earlier tests. This is my personal experience- and yes, there is that rare child who just keeps soaring.
Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You say you live in the DC area. But you also say there is no gifted program where you live? Ummm... seems surprising that a DC area school doesn't have any a gifted program.

Clearly you are not in DC. DCPS does not have a gifted program. They have SEM at some schools. That's it.

DCPS differentiates instruction, so if OP's Algebra ready 7-year old were in my kid's DCPS, they would be taking a higher level math class with a small group of kids with a math specialist, and otherwise having a great time in elementary school, possibly singing Hakuna Matada in the wooden hallways. But a 7-year-old would not be taking Algebra, no matter how smart, but would be doing more in depth and interesting math problem solving appropriate to the child. And, no, OP's kid would not be alone.

Not alone? I'm in DCPS and can confidently tell you there are not hoards of kids like this in my second grade's class. In fact, none. Most classmates are barely reading, for example.

NP

Not alone =/= hoards. There are kids in NWDC elementary schools taking Algebra. But as I said, no, they would not put a 7 year old in that class. They would do something more appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My seven year old, who has consistently been above 99th percentile, recently tested at end of sixth grade level for reading and math. Any advice? There is no gifted program where we live.

OP- first, those are great scores. You DC is obviously exceptionally intelligent. The test (I didn't read through the entire thread) is not an "above grade level test." Those kinds of tests are rare and usually administered for a specific reason for special programming. Even highly gifted kids rarely score higher than the 80th percentile on an above grade level test, two years ahead. They just haven't been exposed to enough academic material yet.

You DC likely took an standardized test against national norms. What "end of 6th grade level reading and math" means in that context is that your DC scored as well as a typical end of 6th grade, public school student on the same test. Your DC's results are quite meaningful, but not as meaningful as if your DC had been tested on end of 6th grade material (in which case, an average 6th grader would likely have scored much better than even a highly gifted kindergartner). Elementary school students who score 3-5 years ahead on above grade level tests are typically profoundly gifted.

Again, none of this is to say that those scores aren't rare or great-- but they may not indicate giftedness unless accompanied by some IQ data (132 or higher).

PP here- I want to edit-- those scores are a good indicator that your child is academically advanced and may be gifted. An IQ test might be in order within the next year or so--my DS showed signs of extreme giftedness and we took him for an IQ test. It helped us plan a for the academic needs of a gifted child vs. an exceptionally capable/bright child who tests well. You are the best judge- signs of giftedness in the early years are feats of abstract reasoning, advanced problem solving, and the ability to apply learning to new situations. You know it when you see it, although there will be plenty of naysayers.

OP said her child took MAP which is an adaptive test. Different grades take the same test but are expected to score at different levels. So to score in the range for 6th grade math the child needs to be familiar with the material.

PP here- I see. My son doesn't take the MAP. I looked up the scoring and it sounds like the Woodcock Johnson where the questions become progressively more difficult until the student scores below a certain number/percentage. It's not technically an above grade level test (like a 7th grader taking the ACT) but can provide a strong argument for acceleration.

OP- pp here- I am going to suggest the Davidson forum. It's a forum for parents with gifted children and/or parents who are wondering about their child's abilities but haven't done any testing- there are a number of topics, including testing/assessment, learning environments, etc. The parents there are knowledgeable- they can provide practical educational advice and won't likely judge if your child is "truly gifted." They might however become a resource if you choose to explore further testing. It's a cordial and overwhelmingly non-judgmental group.
My DS tested extremely high on the Woodcock Johnson at age seven. His math scores were so astronomically high that I thought I might get a book deal (just kidding). He did end up being exceptionally gifted via an IQ test, but his achievement scores decreased (still extremely high and advanced) as other children gained more academic knowledge. It's not an "evening out" so much as a gifted child might assimilate academic material a lot earlier than typical kids- it can cause an extremely inflated score in earlier tests. This is my personal experience- and yes, there is that rare child who just keeps soaring.
Good luck.

I have had exactly this same experience. The older my child gets, the more "normal" with respect to other bright kids. He still will score ridiculously on some nationally normed tests (eg, in third grade math he was "above 13th grade" in math) but by then I already knew that this was meaningless... or at least doesn't mean what it seems to mean!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My seven year old, who has consistently been above 99th percentile, recently tested at end of sixth grade level for reading and math. Any advice? There is no gifted program where we live.

OP- first, those are great scores. You DC is obviously exceptionally intelligent. The test (I didn't read through the entire thread) is not an "above grade level test." Those kinds of tests are rare and usually administered for a specific reason for special programming. Even highly gifted kids rarely score higher than the 80th percentile on an above grade level test, two years ahead. They just haven't been exposed to enough academic material yet.

You DC likely took an standardized test against national norms. What "end of 6th grade level reading and math" means in that context is that your DC scored as well as a typical end of 6th grade, public school student on the same test. Your DC's results are quite meaningful, but not as meaningful as if your DC had been tested on end of 6th grade material (in which case, an average 6th grader would likely have scored much better than even a highly gifted kindergartner). Elementary school students who score 3-5 years ahead on above grade level tests are typically profoundly gifted.

Again, none of this is to say that those scores aren't rare or great-- but they may not indicate giftedness unless accompanied by some IQ data (132 or higher).

PP here- I want to edit-- those scores are a good indicator that your child is academically advanced and may be gifted. An IQ test might be in order within the next year or so--my DS showed signs of extreme giftedness and we took him for an IQ test. It helped us plan a for the academic needs of a gifted child vs. an exceptionally capable/bright child who tests well. You are the best judge- signs of giftedness in the early years are feats of abstract reasoning, advanced problem solving, and the ability to apply learning to new situations. You know it when you see it, although there will be plenty of naysayers.

OP said her child took MAP which is an adaptive test. Different grades take the same test but are expected to score at different levels. So to score in the range for 6th grade math the child needs to be familiar with the material.

PP here- I see. My son doesn't take the MAP. I looked up the scoring and it sounds like the Woodcock Johnson where the questions become progressively more difficult until the student scores below a certain number/percentage. It's not technically an above grade level test (like a 7th grader taking the ACT) but can provide a strong argument for acceleration.

OP- pp here- I am going to suggest the Davidson forum. It's a forum for parents with gifted children and/or parents who are wondering about their child's abilities but haven't done any testing- there are a number of topics, including testing/assessment, learning environments, etc. The parents there are knowledgeable- they can provide practical educational advice and won't likely judge if your child is "truly gifted." They might however become a resource if you choose to explore further testing. It's a cordial and overwhelmingly non-judgmental group.
My DS tested extremely high on the Woodcock Johnson at age seven. His math scores were so astronomically high that I thought I might get a book deal (just kidding). He did end up being exceptionally gifted via an IQ test, but his achievement scores decreased (still extremely high and advanced) as other children gained more academic knowledge. It's not an "evening out" so much as a gifted child might assimilate academic material a lot earlier than typical kids- it can cause an extremely inflated score in earlier tests. This is my personal experience- and yes, there is that rare child who just keeps soaring.
Good luck.

NP. I'm just starting down this road with my child, and appreciate the recommendation for the Davidson forum.

[Anonymous]

Which DC schools give the MAP?

[Anonymous]

Baltimore County, MCPS, don't know about others but the national numbers are in the tens of millions.

[Anonymous]

Music lessons. High IQ people usually thrive with music. If there are no gifted programs in your area, where do you live? There are many online classes, but best to leave that till Middle School and work on things yourself with your child. The same way parent of a child with LD should work to help their child, you should find what interest your child has and help cultivate those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My seven year old, who has consistently been above 99th percentile, recently tested at end of sixth grade level for reading and math. Any advice? There is no gifted program where we live.

OP- first, those are great scores. You DC is obviously exceptionally intelligent. The test (I didn't read through the entire thread) is not an "above grade level test." Those kinds of tests are rare and usually administered for a specific reason for special programming. Even highly gifted kids rarely score higher than the 80th percentile on an above grade level test, two years ahead. They just haven't been exposed to enough academic material yet.

You DC likely took an standardized test against national norms. What "end of 6th grade level reading and math" means in that context is that your DC scored as well as a typical end of 6th grade, public school student on the same test. Your DC's results are quite meaningful, but not as meaningful as if your DC had been tested on end of 6th grade material (in which case, an average 6th grader would likely have scored much better than even a highly gifted kindergartner). Elementary school students who score 3-5 years ahead on above grade level tests are typically profoundly gifted.

Again, none of this is to say that those scores aren't rare or great-- but they may not indicate giftedness unless accompanied by some IQ data (132 or higher).

PP here- I want to edit-- those scores are a good indicator that your child is academically advanced and may be gifted. An IQ test might be in order within the next year or so--my DS showed signs of extreme giftedness and we took him for an IQ test. It helped us plan a for the academic needs of a gifted child vs. an exceptionally capable/bright child who tests well. You are the best judge- signs of giftedness in the early years are feats of abstract reasoning, advanced problem solving, and the ability to apply learning to new situations. You know it when you see it, although there will be plenty of naysayers.

OP said her child took MAP which is an adaptive test. Different grades take the same test but are expected to score at different levels. So to score in the range for 6th grade math the child needs to be familiar with the material.

PP here- I see. My son doesn't take the MAP. I looked up the scoring and it sounds like the Woodcock Johnson where the questions become progressively more difficult until the student scores below a certain number/percentage. It's not technically an above grade level test (like a 7th grader taking the ACT) but can provide a strong argument for acceleration.

OP- pp here- I am going to suggest the Davidson forum. It's a forum for parents with gifted children and/or parents who are wondering about their child's abilities but haven't done any testing- there are a number of topics, including testing/assessment, learning environments, etc. The parents there are knowledgeable- they can provide practical educational advice and won't likely judge if your child is "truly gifted." They might however become a resource if you choose to explore further testing. It's a cordial and overwhelmingly non-judgmental group.
My DS tested extremely high on the Woodcock Johnson at age seven. His math scores were so astronomically high that I thought I might get a book deal (just kidding). He did end up being exceptionally gifted via an IQ test, but his achievement scores decreased (still extremely high and advanced) as other children gained more academic knowledge. It's not an "evening out" so much as a gifted child might assimilate academic material a lot earlier than typical kids- it can cause an extremely inflated score in earlier tests. This is my personal experience- and yes, there is that rare child who just keeps soaring.
Good luck.

I have had exactly this same experience. The older my child gets, the more "normal" with respect to other bright kids. He still will score ridiculously on some nationally normed tests (eg, in third grade math he was "above 13th grade" in math) but by then I already knew that this was meaningless... or at least doesn't mean what it seems to mean!

pp here- it's not that the very high scores aren't meaningful- it's that some kids are able and interested in absorbing academic material earlier. These kids may well be quite gifted and/or are able to engage with academics at a younger age. It's why parents of gifted kids get frustrated- they are accused of pushing their children when in fact they are trying to nurture their abilities and interests. However, these early achievement tests can be quite skewed.

My DS is now ten- he is an advanced math student who enjoys music, chess and math competitions. He's working about two years ahead in math. His early math achievement scores on the Woodcock Johnson indicated that he was at a high school level in applied math by the end of first grade. He is currently appropriately accelerated at two years above grade level going int 5th working on prealgebra and algebra concepts. Big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore County, MCPS, don't know about others but the national numbers are in the tens of millions.

Those are not DC schools. OP said she is in DC. My kids are too, but I don't think they take MAP. Isn't that unusual?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore County, MCPS, don't know about others but the national numbers are in the tens of millions.

Those are not DC schools. OP said she is in DC. My kids are too, but I don't think they take MAP. Isn't that unusual?

OP may not be in DC. Or else she is fibbing a bit. DC doesn't give MAP. MCPS and PGPS do, but they have gifted programs. I can't speak for VA, but the part about not having gifted programming doesn't fit.

[Anonymous]

She said "DC area."
I'm guessing her child is either at a private school or in Baltimore since they are the only district in the area I know of that gives MAP reading in 1st. They also recently got rid of their GT program. It's also a lower performing district compared to those closer to D.C. which would explain why there may be fewer peers performing at the level of her child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Baltimore County, MCPS, don't know about others but the national numbers are in the tens of millions.

Those are not DC schools. OP said she is in DC. My kids are too, but I don't think they take MAP. Isn't that unusual?

OP may not be in DC. Or else she is fibbing a bit. DC doesn't give MAP. MCPS and PGPS do, but they have gifted programs. I can't speak for VA, but the part about not having gifted programming doesn't fit.

I think it is a bit of this(fibbing). Regardless, I think there is a massive difference between a kid testing at a level and being able to perform at that level.

[Anonymous]

I don't know about giftedness in reading but true abilities in math are being able to recognize patterns and think in abstractions -- like coming up with prime number generators from simple arithmetic expressions, or the notion of highly composite numbers or other weird geometric oddities. There are many private programs that cater to this demographic, but it would depend on the location of OP. DCPS doesn't administer MAP as such and other school districts have GT/AAP programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm a pretty laid back parent and haven't given the tests that much thought over the years. Kid is clearly doing well. Occasionally I wonder/worry about what happens in later grades, hence my question.

We are in DC area.

As I said I haven't kept track of test results that closely. I can't tell you what different tests, except percentiles have been consistent since child thought themself to read age three. At some point one of the tests offered an IQ equivalent which I recall was in the mid 140s. Don't know how much stock to put in that. Surprised to hear this is commonplace in DC.

Thanks to the pp who mentioned the Neuro psych eval. I'll think about that, but also at this point am not sure further testing is what I want to do. Want kid to just be a kid and not on a path to college by 13 or some whizz kid math nerd.

OP, you are jumping the gun. Based on the information you provided your kid is extremely smart and I don't mean to minimize that but the scenarios you describe are a whole other category of smart. An IQ of 140 something and MAP scores that are in the 220s for a 7 year old will not put your child on a path to college at 13 or make him a whiz kid math nerd. I can assure that statistically speaking there should be several kids like your child in almost every decent-sized school in America. Your child's level is not that rare. Look up the math.