Kid five grade levels ahead

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm a pretty laid back parent and haven't given the tests that much thought over the years. Kid is clearly doing well. Occasionally I wonder/worry about what happens in later grades, hence my question.

We are in DC area.

As I said I haven't kept track of test results that closely. I can't tell you what different tests, except percentiles have been consistent since child thought themself to read age three. At some point one of the tests offered an IQ equivalent which I recall was in the mid 140s. Don't know how much stock to put in that. Surprised to hear this is commonplace in DC.

Thanks to the pp who mentioned the Neuro psych eval. I'll think about that, but also at this point am not sure further testing is what I want to do. Want kid to just be a kid and not on a path to college by 13 or some whizz kid math nerd.

OP, you are jumping the gun. Based on the information you provided your kid is extremely smart and I don't mean to minimize that but the scenarios you describe are a whole other category of smart. An IQ of 140 something and MAP scores that are in the 220s for a 7 year old will not put your child on a path to college at 13 or make him a whiz kid math nerd. I can assure that statistically speaking there should be several kids like your child in almost every decent-sized school in America. Your child's level is not that rare. Look up the math.

This. Though I can tell from your postings that you don't want to hear it, I'm quite certain that if you handed your child a 6th or 7th grade random worksheets, walked away with no explanations, your kid is not spitting answers out. Your kid is probably one of the many who is a bright kid. (My then first grader could hear his sixth grader cousin working on her homework in the next room with a tutor and he'd be yelling out the answer while he was distracted working on a Lego set. Does that mean that my kid at the age of 6 could do 6th grade math? Not necessarily. It means that my 6 year old could easily do that topic, without even looking at it, in his head.) You can see from the responses to here, your kid isn't an only - he's one of many. He isn't that rare...and the test doesn't mean he is really working at that level. Don't believe me? Well, not surprised. I mean he'd have to know things like order of operations, exponents, negative numbers, converting fractions to decimals/percentages to fractions, improper fractions to mixed numbers, rhombus' compared to parallelograms, how to figure out the circumference of a circle (with diameters versus radius'), probability topics, median, mode, range, mean, ratios, etc. There's a lot in there for your kid to cover...

Hand your kid this: https://www.cmleague.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/CML_sample_E6.pdf

If he completes this without assistance or instruction, I'd be impressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm a pretty laid back parent and haven't given the tests that much thought over the years. Kid is clearly doing well. Occasionally I wonder/worry about what happens in later grades, hence my question.

We are in DC area.

As I said I haven't kept track of test results that closely. I can't tell you what different tests, except percentiles have been consistent since child thought themself to read age three. At some point one of the tests offered an IQ equivalent which I recall was in the mid 140s. Don't know how much stock to put in that. Surprised to hear this is commonplace in DC.

Thanks to the pp who mentioned the Neuro psych eval. I'll think about that, but also at this point am not sure further testing is what I want to do. Want kid to just be a kid and not on a path to college by 13 or some whizz kid math nerd.

OP, you are jumping the gun. Based on the information you provided your kid is extremely smart and I don't mean to minimize that but the scenarios you describe are a whole other category of smart. An IQ of 140 something and MAP scores that are in the 220s for a 7 year old will not put your child on a path to college at 13 or make him a whiz kid math nerd. I can assure that statistically speaking there should be several kids like your child in almost every decent-sized school in America. Your child's level is not that rare. Look up the math.

This. Though I can tell from your postings that you don't want to hear it, I'm quite certain that if you handed your child a 6th or 7th grade random worksheets, walked away with no explanations, your kid is not spitting answers out. Your kid is probably one of the many who is a bright kid. (My then first grader could hear his sixth grader cousin working on her homework in the next room with a tutor and he'd be yelling out the answer while he was distracted working on a Lego set. Does that mean that my kid at the age of 6 could do 6th grade math? Not necessarily. It means that my 6 year old could easily do that topic, without even looking at it, in his head.) You can see from the responses to here, your kid isn't an only - he's one of many. He isn't that rare...and the test doesn't mean he is really working at that level. Don't believe me? Well, not surprised. I mean he'd have to know things like order of operations, exponents, negative numbers, converting fractions to decimals/percentages to fractions, improper fractions to mixed numbers, rhombus' compared to parallelograms, how to figure out the circumference of a circle (with diameters versus radius'), probability topics, median, mode, range, mean, ratios, etc. There's a lot in there for your kid to cover...

Hand your kid this: https://www.cmleague.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/CML_sample_E6.pdf

If he completes this without assistance or instruction, I'd be impressed.

Not the OP but my 2nd grader got all 6 right after I handed it to him and walked away....Anyways, no substitute for working with your child.

[Anonymous]

Her child is in first grade, isn't he?

[Anonymous]

Here is a good explanation of grade equivalent scores and what they really mean. In short a score of 7th grade does not mean your child is doing 7th grade level work- not even close.

"The Grade-Equivalent score compares your child’s performance on grade-level material
against the average performance of students at other grade levels on that same
material and is reported in terms of grade level and months. If your 5th grade child
obtains a grade-equivalent of 10.5 on a standardized math or reading test, it does not
mean that your child is solving math problems or reading at the mid-10th grade level. It
means that she or he can solve 5th grade math problems and read 5th grade material as
well as the average 10th grade student can read and solve 5th grade math problems.
Your child is performing much better than the average 5th grader but most likely would
not perform as well if tested using 10th grade material as they have not yet been
exposed to 10th grade material. Caution should always be used when interpreting grade
equivalents, especially when attempting to use grade equivalents as the basis for a
grade placement discussion."

[Anonymous]

Is this really true for MAP which is an adaptive, above-grade level test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this really true for MAP which is an adaptive, above-grade level test?

NP, but I don't think so. However, one should be cautious with the MAP-P results, since the database of adaptive questions in MAP-P covers K-2 curriculum, so even though a student can get a score corresponding to a higher grade, it doesn't necessarily show mastery of the higher grade curriculum. A lot of people report drops for students that score highly on the MAP-P when they switch to MAP-R. Which is not to say that high MAp-P scores are meaningless, just that they should be interpreted with some awareness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My seven year old, who has consistently been above 99th percentile, recently tested at end of sixth grade level for reading and math. Any advice? There is no gifted program where we live.

HIPPO. You realize 6th grade level on a standardized test means she scored the same as an average 6th grader would score taking a test designed for a seven year old. Obviously this does not mean your child would be able to score the same as that 6th grader on a 6th grade test. The grade levels above doesn't mean what most parents think.

[Anonymous]

People, the MAP test is adaptive so her child is getting above-grade level content. It's not the same as a child scoring at a "6th grade level" on a fixed 1st grade test.

Now that that's settled what a MAP P score shows is complicated. There are three versions with the MAP-P, the lowest version, only having content going up to a certain grade. The version is used for K-2nd but the content goes slightly higher but not up to 6th.

[Anonymous]

8yo with recent IQ in 98th percentile on wisc v. My advice is to find a good school. DD is sufficiently challenged in math. She has mastered long multiplication and long division (456x34 and 5423/21) and simplifying and adding/subtracting/multiplying/dividing fractions. Area and perimeter and easy algebra. This is all just normal at her school. She doesn't even really like math--so we don't push her. She took the SCAT for CTY and failed to qualify for the math by one question. But we weren't interested in that anyway.

We were interested in reading stuff. She's been reading chapter books since 4. She loves reading. And while she reads everything, and gets pretty decent instruction at school with kids 2 grades above her, it is not really challenging her. She comprehends at a high school level.

We've always seemed to know what to do with her by just following her lead and getting her into a really good school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:8yo with recent IQ in 98th percentile on wisc v. My advice is to find a good school. DD is sufficiently challenged in math. She has mastered long multiplication and long division (456x34 and 5423/21) and simplifying and adding/subtracting/multiplying/dividing fractions. Area and perimeter and easy algebra. This is all just normal at her school. She doesn't even really like math--so we don't push her. She took the SCAT for CTY and failed to qualify for the math by one question. But we weren't interested in that anyway.

We were interested in reading stuff. She's been reading chapter books since 4. She loves reading. And while she reads everything, and gets pretty decent instruction at school with kids 2 grades above her, it is not really challenging her. She comprehends at a high school level.

We've always seemed to know what to do with her by just following her lead and getting her into a really good school.

Sorry, none of this is impressive in this area (DC area). I'm not trying to be mean but this is pretty typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People, the MAP test is adaptive so her child is getting above-grade level content. It's not the same as a child scoring at a "6th grade level" on a fixed 1st grade test.

Now that that's settled what a MAP P score shows is complicated. There are three versions with the MAP-P, the lowest version, only having content going up to a certain grade. The version is used for K-2nd but the content goes slightly higher but not up to 6th.

Teacher here. You are correct that there is a primary version of MAP. Your child is not taking the late elementary or middle grades version. Again, your child scored on the test the same way an 6th grader would, if he were taking the primary version of MAP. I hate when tests give grade level equivalents as this leads to a lot of confusion for parents, and it's not useful information for teachers either. The RIT score itself is much more helpful.

OP is this your child's first time taking MAP? It is important to look at the trend line over time. Often a child will score very high and then receive a lower score the next time, as the questions will start out very difficult due to the prior high score. In my experience the truly gifted children tackle these tough problems and maintain a score in the 99th percentile. These are the children who are in the total replacement math program in my district, and they account for about 5-10% of the class. There are other kids who tend to fluctuate between the 94th and 99th percentile, and those tend to be the classic high achievers or kids who are just doing well in math...bright, not gifted. There are many children like this in my high performing district. There are also kids whose trends are between the 80th and 99th percentiles, and this is pretty rare (maybe 5-10 percent of kids?). From what I have seen kids like this are more likely to hit those high percentiles in the younger grades.

OP, your child is bright. If you want to pursue outside testing, fine. If I were you I would just wait and see what his trend looks like over time. Enrich him at home. Hopefully his teachers are appropriate, engaging math and reading experiences as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8yo with recent IQ in 98th percentile on wisc v. My advice is to find a good school. DD is sufficiently challenged in math. She has mastered long multiplication and long division (456x34 and 5423/21) and simplifying and adding/subtracting/multiplying/dividing fractions. Area and perimeter and easy algebra. This is all just normal at her school. She doesn't even really like math--so we don't push her. She took the SCAT for CTY and failed to qualify for the math by one question. But we weren't interested in that anyway.

We were interested in reading stuff. She's been reading chapter books since 4. She loves reading. And while she reads everything, and gets pretty decent instruction at school with kids 2 grades above her, it is not really challenging her. She comprehends at a high school level.

We've always seemed to know what to do with her by just following her lead and getting her into a really good school.

Sorry, none of this is impressive in this area (DC area). I'm not trying to be mean but this is pretty typical.

Did you really read my post? That was kind of my point. My child barely has a gifted IQ. She works at these levels at school because the school is great and differentiates. Her reading ability is pretty remarkable, but again school is not interfering negatively. They in fact give her comprehension passages at her (high school) legal as enrichment. And I know many kids who qualify for CTY. It's an easy process, and we plan on using the humanities offerings which DD has qualified for.

I wouldn't say it's typical, but I don't think it's that impressive especially for this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, the MAP test is adaptive so her child is getting above-grade level content. It's not the same as a child scoring at a "6th grade level" on a fixed 1st grade test.

Now that that's settled what a MAP P score shows is complicated. There are three versions with the MAP-P, the lowest version, only having content going up to a certain grade. The version is used for K-2nd but the content goes slightly higher but not up to 6th.

Teacher here. You are correct that there is a primary version of MAP. Your child is not taking the late elementary or middle grades version. Again, your child scored on the test the same way an 6th grader would, if he were taking the primary version of MAP. I hate when tests give grade level equivalents as this leads to a lot of confusion for parents, and it's not useful information for teachers either. The RIT score itself is much more helpful.

OP is this your child's first time taking MAP? It is important to look at the trend line over time. Often a child will score very high and then receive a lower score the next time, as the questions will start out very difficult due to the prior high score. In my experience the truly gifted children tackle these tough problems and maintain a score in the 99th percentile. These are the children who are in the total replacement math program in my district, and they account for about 5-10% of the class. There are other kids who tend to fluctuate between the 94th and 99th percentile, and those tend to be the classic high achievers or kids who are just doing well in math...bright, not gifted. There are many children like this in my high performing district. There are also kids whose trends are between the 80th and 99th percentiles, and this is pretty rare (maybe 5-10 percent of kids?). From what I have seen kids like this are more likely to hit those high percentiles in the younger grades.

OP, your child is bright. If you want to pursue outside testing, fine. If I were you I would just wait and see what his trend looks like over time. Enrich him at home. Hopefully his teachers are appropriate, engaging math and reading experiences as well.

OP this seems like good information to explain the MAP score- I'm the pp who encouraged you to review the Davidson website and to consider IQ testing of you truly feel your child is unchallenged or are seeing signs of giftedness beyond academic- advanced reasoning, problem solving, and creativity beyond what is expected. The WISC V is what my DS took. It's a good test to measure cognitive abilities and performance- it can provide a lot of valuable information going forward.
These achievement tests are confusing because they can seem to be above grade level tests, or have stifling ceilings for very bright kids (perhaps your DC hit the ceiling?). The only truly above grade level tests are those designed for older kids and taken by younger kids. I mentioned earlier that the ACT is an example- JHU requires the the SCAT for their CTY program. I believe this is an above grade level test.
The Woodcock Johnson and the WIAT is an adaptive test and I don't think there are limits. My son is a bit of a math whiz kid and was tested on some high level material, many years ahead of grade, before he finally topped out in this test. Profoundly gifted programs/schools may use the Woodcock Johnson or WIAT or EXPLORE achievement as one form of admittance eligibility- but they do not use the MAP perhaps because of the ceilings cited by the pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Again, your child scored on the test the same way an 6th grader would, if he were taking the primary version of MAP. I hate when tests give grade level equivalents as this leads to a lot of confusion for parents, and it's not useful information for teachers either. The RIT score itself is much more helpful.

This isn't quite right. MAP does not give grade level equivalents. The test only returns a RIT score and it was OP's teacher who used a RIT at 60-70th percentile nationally for a grade to conclude the child is working at that grade level. Hence, the subject line "kid five grade levels ahead." Some school districts do provide information on how a typical child performs at particular grade level so she may have used criteria set by her administration. What she should have told OP is that your child is performing about the same or better than a typical 6th or 7th grader in performance on that test and that's great.

There are many other ways to look at the score. The score of 222 on the reading may be 99th percentile for 1st grade but it's 98th for 2nd, 94th for 3rd, 86th for 4th. I wouldn't say a child at 86th percentile for 4th is performing at a 6th or 7th grade level but that's just me.

[Anonymous]

Grade equivalent score is used as an indicator to identify kids that are below grade level average, kind of like an eye test result, where 20/20 is the normal standard and corrective action in the form of prescription glasses are only needed if it is not met. Evaluators ignore that score if it is above the child's grade level, and instead use raw score, percentile, stanine, standard score, etc. But many parents get attracted towards Grade Equivalent as the name suggests their child fits in at that higher grade?