Kim kardashian just released video of Taylor Swift's convo on her snapchat

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people are seeing racial overtones to this!!! Are we forgetting that Kanye put a nude silicone doll of Taylor in his video WITHOUT HER CONSENT? How is that ok? Look at all the people (rightfully) freaking out about the model posting a pic of an anonymous nude woman at the gym. How is that so different from what Kanye did to Taylor in his video? That was LOW. He is not the victim here.

He's a joke. A low-class joke, only tolerated because he's black.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:SMH and she went on live television at the Grammys and made that dramatic speech about people taking credit for her success. She is faker than a $3 bill.

Some people think her speech was about Calvin Harris taking credit for the song she wrote.

That song was released months after the Grammys. He exposed her for being fake too.

[Anonymous]

From The New York Times article:

Ms. Swift and Mr. West couldn’t be more different: Ms. Swift is a covert operator, Mr. West a namer of names. Ms. Swift is as careful a crafter of narrative, both in song and in life, as anyone in pop. Mr. West shoots from the hip; it’s the source of much of his charm.

Throughout this battle, each has accused the other of dishonesty. There is a fundamental layer of falseness and contrivance to all public images: Celebrity culture relies upon that layer not being disrupted. Part of the power of the video Ms. Kardashian West released is it appeared to show that Ms. Swift’s public presentation and private machinations were at odds. The Ms. Swift in those video clips is self-aware — “I’m, like, this close to overexposure,” she said — in a way she often isn’t in public, and she is also willing to disrupt her image in unexpected ways.

But her stern response to the song’s release served as a reassertion of the old order. It also extended a narrative in which Mr. West is painted as the predator and Ms. Swift as the prey, a story with uncomfortable racial overtones.

In the excerpts, though, Mr. West is solicitous and warm. “I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex,” he says, enunciating each word of the lyric carefully, with Ms. Swift on speakerphone. Rhythmically, it sounds like perhaps he’s workshopping one of two options with her. Later, he says: “I want things that make you feel good. I don’t want to do rap that makes people feel bad.” (The clips are short and choppy, and clearly excerpts. On Twitter in February, Mr. West said the call with Ms. Swift had been an hour long.)

“I just really appreciate it,” Ms. Swift said. “I never would have expected you to tell me about a line in your song.”

“Relationships,” Mr. West tells her, “are more important than punch lines.”

Seeking permission for a lyric is a rather extraordinary step, especially for Mr. West, whose loose tongue is his greatest asset. Ms. Swift, by contrast, has historically avoided identifying the subjects of her songs, though after the 2009 V.M.A.s, Ms. Swift released the rather patronizing “Innocent” — including the words “Who you are is not what you did/ You’re still an innocent” — which she described in a 2010 interview with MTV as not a song about Mr. West but one “to” him. (It also seems unlikely that she ran “Dear John,” a song widely believed to be about John Mayer, to whom Ms. Swift was romantically linked, and one of the most effective and ruthless eviscerations of a fellow celebrity in pop history, past Mr. Mayer for approval.)

Given the seemingly genial nature of the conversation the two had, what exactly so agitated Ms. Swift remains somewhat unclear. The release of the call footage is an obvious violation of trust, and brings up possible legal issues. (The legality of recording phone calls varies from state to state; a representative for Mr. West did not respond to an inquiry about where the singer had been at the time of the phone call.) In an interview with GQ, released last month, Ms. Kardashian West mentioned that Ms. Swift’s legal team was aware of the recorded conversation “and then they sent an attorney’s letter like, ‘Don’t you dare do anything with that footage,’ and asking us to destroy it.”

The statement put out by Ms. Swift’s representative at the time of the release of “Famous” said that Ms. Swift had “cautioned him about releasing a song with such a strong misogynistic message.” It also said, “Taylor was never made aware of the actual lyric, ‘I made that bitch famous.’ ” Indeed, the leaked video does not show Mr. West asking about that line.

And so, if this conflagration is indeed turning on the interpretation of that word, then what may be at play is a contextual misread, or perhaps a clash of value systems. Mr. West comes from the world of hip-hop, where use of the term to refer to women can be so pervasive as to dull its pejorative meaning. In 2012, Mr. West unveiled a song called “Perfect Bitch” — it was about Ms. Kardashian West, then his girlfriend. But though it has become a catchall term, it still carries undeniable historical baggage.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/arts/music/taylor-swift-kim-kardashian.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Later in the call Swift does talk about the "famous" part of the lyric. It does seem like everything hinges on the word "bitch," not famous. I agree with the above take on things that Kanye was surprisingly solicitous of Swift on the phone and they really sounded like friends. Maybe Swift was doing something I do, too, which is sounding more open to something than I really am for the purpose of trying to preserve the peace. But then it's not Kanye's fault that he came out of the conversation with a different understanding than Swift intended. She's got to take responsibility for what she said, and stop painting Kanye as the evil black man who took advantage of her.

[Anonymous]

People think Kanye West is charming? News to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people are seeing racial overtones to this!!! Are we forgetting that Kanye put a nude silicone doll of Taylor in his video WITHOUT HER CONSENT? How is that ok? Look at all the people (rightfully) freaking out about the model posting a pic of an anonymous nude woman at the gym. How is that so different from what Kanye did to Taylor in his video? That was LOW. He is not the victim here.

Is that a silicone doll? How do you know that?

They're all dolls. You can't honestly think she (or the rest of the people portrayed) consented to that.

I don't know what those are. Are they dolls? Are they look alike models? Are they photo shopped images? Are some of them real, some fake? Did some give permission and some did not.

I'm guessing that Kanye/Kim/Rihanna were fully on board with this "project". I don't know about the rest of them.

Just because Kim is Kool with her big old bare azz (or its likeness) being in that video and even if Rihanna was fine with her naked boy or its likeness being in that video - it does not mean that the others were o.k. with it.

[Anonymous]

They lost me when they put Kanye and charm in the same sentence.

Anonymous wrote:From The New York Times article:

Ms. Swift and Mr. West couldn’t be more different: Ms. Swift is a covert operator, Mr. West a namer of names. Ms. Swift is as careful a crafter of narrative, both in song and in life, as anyone in pop. Mr. West shoots from the hip; it’s the source of much of his charm.

Throughout this battle, each has accused the other of dishonesty. There is a fundamental layer of falseness and contrivance to all public images: Celebrity culture relies upon that layer not being disrupted. Part of the power of the video Ms. Kardashian West released is it appeared to show that Ms. Swift’s public presentation and private machinations were at odds. The Ms. Swift in those video clips is self-aware — “I’m, like, this close to overexposure,” she said — in a way she often isn’t in public, and she is also willing to disrupt her image in unexpected ways.

But her stern response to the song’s release served as a reassertion of the old order. It also extended a narrative in which Mr. West is painted as the predator and Ms. Swift as the prey, a story with uncomfortable racial overtones.

In the excerpts, though, Mr. West is solicitous and warm. “I feel like me and Taylor might still have sex,” he says, enunciating each word of the lyric carefully, with Ms. Swift on speakerphone. Rhythmically, it sounds like perhaps he’s workshopping one of two options with her. Later, he says: “I want things that make you feel good. I don’t want to do rap that makes people feel bad.” (The clips are short and choppy, and clearly excerpts. On Twitter in February, Mr. West said the call with Ms. Swift had been an hour long.)

“I just really appreciate it,” Ms. Swift said. “I never would have expected you to tell me about a line in your song.”

“Relationships,” Mr. West tells her, “are more important than punch lines.”

Seeking permission for a lyric is a rather extraordinary step, especially for Mr. West, whose loose tongue is his greatest asset. Ms. Swift, by contrast, has historically avoided identifying the subjects of her songs, though after the 2009 V.M.A.s, Ms. Swift released the rather patronizing “Innocent” — including the words “Who you are is not what you did/ You’re still an innocent” — which she described in a 2010 interview with MTV as not a song about Mr. West but one “to” him. (It also seems unlikely that she ran “Dear John,” a song widely believed to be about John Mayer, to whom Ms. Swift was romantically linked, and one of the most effective and ruthless eviscerations of a fellow celebrity in pop history, past Mr. Mayer for approval.)

Given the seemingly genial nature of the conversation the two had, what exactly so agitated Ms. Swift remains somewhat unclear. The release of the call footage is an obvious violation of trust, and brings up possible legal issues. (The legality of recording phone calls varies from state to state; a representative for Mr. West did not respond to an inquiry about where the singer had been at the time of the phone call.) In an interview with GQ, released last month, Ms. Kardashian West mentioned that Ms. Swift’s legal team was aware of the recorded conversation “and then they sent an attorney’s letter like, ‘Don’t you dare do anything with that footage,’ and asking us to destroy it.”

The statement put out by Ms. Swift’s representative at the time of the release of “Famous” said that Ms. Swift had “cautioned him about releasing a song with such a strong misogynistic message.” It also said, “Taylor was never made aware of the actual lyric, ‘I made that bitch famous.’ ” Indeed, the leaked video does not show Mr. West asking about that line.

And so, if this conflagration is indeed turning on the interpretation of that word, then what may be at play is a contextual misread, or perhaps a clash of value systems. Mr. West comes from the world of hip-hop, where use of the term to refer to women can be so pervasive as to dull its pejorative meaning. In 2012, Mr. West unveiled a song called “Perfect Bitch” — it was about Ms. Kardashian West, then his girlfriend. But though it has become a catchall term, it still carries undeniable historical baggage.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/arts/music/taylor-swift-kim-kardashian.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Later in the call Swift does talk about the "famous" part of the lyric. It does seem like everything hinges on the word "bitch," not famous. I agree with the above take on things that Kanye was surprisingly solicitous of Swift on the phone and they really sounded like friends. Maybe Swift was doing something I do, too, which is sounding more open to something than I really am for the purpose of trying to preserve the peace. But then it's not Kanye's fault that he came out of the conversation with a different understanding than Swift intended. She's got to take responsibility for what she said, and stop painting Kanye as the evil black man who took advantage of her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people are seeing racial overtones to this!!! Are we forgetting that Kanye put a nude silicone doll of Taylor in his video WITHOUT HER CONSENT? How is that ok? Look at all the people (rightfully) freaking out about the model posting a pic of an anonymous nude woman at the gym. How is that so different from what Kanye did to Taylor in his video? That was LOW. He is not the victim here.

Is that a silicone doll? How do you know that?

They're all dolls. You can't honestly think she (or the rest of the people portrayed) consented to that.

I don't know what those are. Are they dolls? Are they look alike models? Are they photo shopped images? Are some of them real, some fake? Did some give permission and some did not.

I'm guessing that Kanye/Kim/Rihanna were fully on board with this "project". I don't know about the rest of them.

Just because Kim is Kool with her big old bare azz (or its likeness) being in that video and even if Rihanna was fine with her naked boy or its likeness being in that video - it does not mean that the others were o.k. with it.

NP. I found it really distasteful that he posed Rihanna naked in bed with her abuser. Also that he covered the men's private parts with sheets or posed limbs but not the women he dislikes like Taylor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people are seeing racial overtones to this!!! Are we forgetting that Kanye put a nude silicone doll of Taylor in his video WITHOUT HER CONSENT? How is that ok? Look at all the people (rightfully) freaking out about the model posting a pic of an anonymous nude woman at the gym. How is that so different from what Kanye did to Taylor in his video? That was LOW. He is not the victim here.

He's a joke. A low-class joke, only tolerated because he's black.

Right, he's rich and famous for being black. That aaaand the 21 grammy awards. He is extremely talented. Stop dismissing his work because you don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people are seeing racial overtones to this!!! Are we forgetting that Kanye put a nude silicone doll of Taylor in his video WITHOUT HER CONSENT? How is that ok? Look at all the people (rightfully) freaking out about the model posting a pic of an anonymous nude woman at the gym. How is that so different from what Kanye did to Taylor in his video? That was LOW. He is not the victim here.

He's a joke. A low-class joke, only tolerated because he's black.

Right, he's rich and famous for being black. That aaaand the 21 grammy awards. He is extremely talented. Stop dismissing his work because you don't get it.

Are you defending the fact that he put a naked image of Taylor in his video without her consent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Kanye did not call for approval, but to ask Taylor to release his single ‘Famous’ on her Twitter account. She declined and cautioned him about releasing a song with such a strong misogynistic message,” a spokesperson for Swift said following the song’s release back in February.

That was totally untrue. He obviously did call her for approval. Why did she lie?

Same PP here. He called her for approval and she and her people insisted he did not and she never heard the lyrics. Putting that statement out when they actually discussed the song and the lyrics for an hour was wrong. I don't understand why she would say that, or allow her people to say it, after it actually had happened. Unless it was just to play into stereotypes of her as an innocent white girl trying to maintain her decorum in the face of West's bad manners and invasiveness. I think that's really wrong and, in this racial climate, really hurtful and unhelpful. (and I'm a white woman.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people are seeing racial overtones to this!!! Are we forgetting that Kanye put a nude silicone doll of Taylor in his video WITHOUT HER CONSENT? How is that ok? Look at all the people (rightfully) freaking out about the model posting a pic of an anonymous nude woman at the gym. How is that so different from what Kanye did to Taylor in his video? That was LOW. He is not the victim here.

He's a joke. A low-class joke, only tolerated because he's black.

Right, he's rich and famous for being black. That aaaand the 21 grammy awards. He is extremely talented. Stop dismissing his work because you don't get it.

Are you defending the fact that he put a naked image of Taylor in his video without her consent?

New poster. It's indefensible. No feminist would try to defend that action, which is despicable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kanye did not call for approval, but to ask Taylor to release his single ‘Famous’ on her Twitter account. She declined and cautioned him about releasing a song with such a strong misogynistic message,” a spokesperson for Swift said following the song’s release back in February.

That was totally untrue. He obviously did call her for approval. Why did she lie?

Same PP here. He called her for approval and she and her people insisted he did not and she never heard the lyrics. Putting that statement out when they actually discussed the song and the lyrics for an hour was wrong. I don't understand why she would say that, or allow her people to say it, after it actually had happened. Unless it was just to play into stereotypes of her as an innocent white girl trying to maintain her decorum in the face of West's bad manners and invasiveness. I think that's really wrong and, in this racial climate, really hurtful and unhelpful. (and I'm a white woman.)

She has said ALL along that what she objected to was being called a bitch, which was not part of the conversation as far as I can tell. It was onlookers who ASSumed that her objections lay with the sex comment.

My take is that she thought it was going to be funnier/more complimentary than it was and when she heard herself being called a bitch, she took it as a negative, implying criticism and disrespect. In her GQ interview, Kim tried to explain why she doesn't think rappers calling women "bitches" is problematic but obviously a lot of women do find it very misogynistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe people are seeing racial overtones to this!!! Are we forgetting that Kanye put a nude silicone doll of Taylor in his video WITHOUT HER CONSENT? How is that ok? Look at all the people (rightfully) freaking out about the model posting a pic of an anonymous nude woman at the gym. How is that so different from what Kanye did to Taylor in his video? That was LOW. He is not the victim here.

Is that a silicone doll? How do you know that?

They're all dolls. You can't honestly think she (or the rest of the people portrayed) consented to that.

I don't know what those are. Are they dolls? Are they look alike models? Are they photo shopped images? Are some of them real, some fake? Did some give permission and some did not.

I'm guessing that Kanye/Kim/Rihanna were fully on board with this "project". I don't know about the rest of them.

Just because Kim is Kool with her big old bare azz (or its likeness) being in that video and even if Rihanna was fine with her naked boy or its likeness being in that video - it does not mean that the others were o.k. with it.

NP. I found it really distasteful that he posed Rihanna naked in bed with her abuser. Also that he covered the men's private parts with sheets or posed limbs but not the women he dislikes like Taylor.

I find the whole video disgusting. Rihanna sang this song. Was she not aware of this video?

[Anonymous]

She's right that calling her a bitch, which she didn't agree to, is messed up.

She shouldn't have lied and said he never called her at all.

Not that complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Kanye did not call for approval, but to ask Taylor to release his single ‘Famous’ on her Twitter account. She declined and cautioned him about releasing a song with such a strong misogynistic message,” a spokesperson for Swift said following the song’s release back in February.

That was totally untrue. He obviously did call her for approval. Why did she lie?

Same PP here. He called her for approval and she and her people insisted he did not and she never heard the lyrics. Putting that statement out when they actually discussed the song and the lyrics for an hour was wrong. I don't understand why she would say that, or allow her people to say it, after it actually had happened. Unless it was just to play into stereotypes of her as an innocent white girl trying to maintain her decorum in the face of West's bad manners and invasiveness. I think that's really wrong and, in this racial climate, really hurtful and unhelpful. (and I'm a white woman.)

She has said ALL along that what she objected to was being called a bitch, which was not part of the conversation as far as I can tell. It was onlookers who ASSumed that her objections lay with the sex comment.

My take is that she thought it was going to be funnier/more complimentary than it was and when she heard herself being called a bitch, she took it as a negative, implying criticism and disrespect. In her GQ interview, Kim tried to explain why she doesn't think rappers calling women "bitches" is problematic but obviously a lot of women do find it very misogynistic.

No. Look at the above quote. Her people have said all along that he never called her for approval, and she never corrected them. That's clearly a lie. They talked about the song for an hour. It's okay for Swift to have a problem with West calling her a bitch, but she should have been more specific and said they talked about the song lyrics but not about the lyric where he calls her a bitch, and she found that degrading. But making it seem like they had never talked was wrong and a lie.