Help me to understand transgender identity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this. If you want to be bold enough to don a skirt and high heels and a red wig, then you should know people will stare or laugh. It's unusual to see a 6' man dressed like this. Learn to ignore. If you are at risk of being raped in the mens bathroom, then the mens bathroom needs a full time attendant; it shouldn't be the women's problem to accommodate you in their bathroom. You are biologically male and the mens bathroom is for people who are biologically male, regardless of how they like
to dress.

I honestly do hope somebody sues NC. This case should go to SCOTUS. Discrimination of LGB will be ruled unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection clause, but there is no way transgenders demand to use bathrooms representing their gender identity when they are biologically male will ever pass constitutional muster. Granted no one will do underwear checks but it will never be a protected right.

Then leave. Your "right" doesn't trump anyone's else's to pee. Where do you get that idea? Or is that just something made up in your head?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this. If you want to be bold enough to don a skirt and high heels and a red wig, then you should know people will stare or laugh. It's unusual to see a 6' man dressed like this. Learn to ignore. If you are at risk of being raped in the mens bathroom, then the mens bathroom needs a full time attendant; it shouldn't be the women's problem to accommodate you in their bathroom. You are biologically male and the mens bathroom is for people who are biologically male, regardless of how they like
to dress.

I honestly do hope somebody sues NC. This case should go to SCOTUS. Discrimination of LGB will be ruled unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection clause, but there is no way transgenders demand to use bathrooms representing their gender identity when they are biologically male will ever pass constitutional muster. Granted no one will do underwear checks but it will never be a protected right.

I am certainly no expert on people who are transgender (and for the love of god, please stop referring to them as "transgenders") but I have a friend who has transitioned and I can assure you, the LAST THING a trans person would do is call attention to their biology in a bathroom, so your fear of a transgender woman wanting a URINAL in a woman's bathroom is about as likely as hell freezing over. What they want is what any other woman wants - to pee privately in a stall. So that's what your big fear is - a woman wanting to pee in a stall.

And speak for yourself about laughing at others. That speaks volumes about you and your character that you would actual write that and click submit. Tell someone to learn to ignore is an asshole statement.

All. Of. This.

[Anonymous]

Which bathroom will accommodate this type of creeps:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3524063/Transgender-woman-Eva-Tiamat-Medusa-ears-nose-removed-dragon-lady.html

[Anonymous]

You certainly don't seem to want assistance with understanding trans people, OP. You seem to have posted with a preconceived notion in mind and just wanted to spout your opinions on something you clearly know nothing about under the guise of "wanting to understand." BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...and their desire to use the gender they identify with bathrooms.

I am a conservative. I don't think lesbian, homosexual, or bisexual behavior is morally appropriate. However, I respect their right to choose the lifestyle they want. Transgenders asking to use womens bathrooms when they are biologically male seems an entirely different application. The last thing I want to see is a man in the womens bathroom. What exactly will transgenders do- will they need/use urinals? Is this in our future?

This is not "conservative" this is bigotry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this issue either. Democrat here. I don't think gay/transgender is morally wrong. But think transgender folks should use single bathrooms and if they aren't available they should use the one that matches their equipment.

All you need to understand is that you are a bigot.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the entire thread but there is no way in hell I would want my son who identifies and dresses like a teenage girl, to use the men's room. There is also no way I'd want my teenage daughter who identifies as a male to use the men's room. This is all hypothetical but I would be terrified for my child in today's society. Such hate and violence everywhere.

I am not bothered by seeing a transgender person in the women's room. I welcome the opportunity to show a little kindness and humanity to people who have been treated so shameful by a so called civilized society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a woman and I can tell you that 9 out of 10 doors of the stalls are crooked and you can actually see a lot just passing by looking for an available stall. Also most public restrooms have stalls with partial walls I.e. They don't go from floor to sealing. So there are opportunities for peeping. I think the concern is about men posing as transgend

Please stop looking into bathroom stalls.

how can i find one available?

You lean over and look for feet. Duh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your problem is that you are trying to make sense out of nonsense. There is nothing to "get."

Transgenderism is a mental disorder, disturbance, illness-- depending on severity level in the individual. Nothing has changed there; that has always been the case. The fact that there are now calls to recognize this condition as OK -- and in fact, to call on the remainder of society to treat it as OK, by adjusting laws that affect everyone -- says more about our current culture than it does about transgenderism.

So, even if what you say is true (and I disagree). We adjust laws for all sort of other disabilities/illnesses. Do you feel the same way about curb cuts, and braille on elevator buttons, and picture menus at McDonalds? Do these things lead to the recognition of illness and disability as "OK"? If not, why is transgender different?

Because transgenderism is a made up manifestion of much deeper problems. Unlike blindness, say, or other physical disabilities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your problem is that you are trying to make sense out of nonsense. There is nothing to "get."

Transgenderism is a mental disorder, disturbance, illness-- depending on severity level in the individual. Nothing has changed there; that has always been the case. The fact that there are now calls to recognize this condition as OK -- and in fact, to call on the remainder of society to treat it as OK, by adjusting laws that affect everyone -- says more about our current culture than it does about transgenderism.

So, even if what you say is true (and I disagree). We adjust laws for all sort of other disabilities/illnesses. Do you feel the same way about curb cuts, and braille on elevator buttons, and picture menus at McDonalds? Do these things lead to the recognition of illness and disability as "OK"? If not, why is transgender different?

Because transgenderism is a made up manifestion of much deeper problems. Unlike blindness, say, or other physical disabilities

Shorter PP: I think it's fine for the government and public accommodations to discriminate against people based on their gender identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your problem is that you are trying to make sense out of nonsense. There is nothing to "get."

Transgenderism is a mental disorder, disturbance, illness-- depending on severity level in the individual. Nothing has changed there; that has always been the case. The fact that there are now calls to recognize this condition as OK -- and in fact, to call on the remainder of society to treat it as OK, by adjusting laws that affect everyone -- says more about our current culture than it does about transgenderism.

So, even if what you say is true (and I disagree). We adjust laws for all sort of other disabilities/illnesses. Do you feel the same way about curb cuts, and braille on elevator buttons, and picture menus at McDonalds? Do these things lead to the recognition of illness and disability as "OK"? If not, why is transgender different?

Because transgenderism is a made up manifestion of much deeper problems. Unlike blindness, say, or other physical disabilities

Shorter PP: I think it's fine for the government and public accommodations to discriminate against people based on their gender identity.

"Gender identity" is a nonsensical, made up term in and of itself

[Anonymous]

Even shorter PP: People are being themselves wrong!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this. If you want to be bold enough to don a skirt and high heels and a red wig, then you should know people will stare or laugh. It's unusual to see a 6' man dressed like this. Learn to ignore. If you are at risk of being raped in the mens bathroom, then the mens bathroom needs a full time attendant; it shouldn't be the women's problem to accommodate you in their bathroom. You are biologically male and the mens bathroom is for people who are biologically male, regardless of how they like
to dress.

I find it a bit astounding that trans people are literally being attacked and killed in public places in this country while bystanders watch and...you think that trans women are going to lead a successful campaign for urinals in the nation's restrooms? I really mean this in the least sarcastic way possible. I can't tell whether you're serious or this is a parody.

If you really live in DC and go out in public frequently, I'd wager money that you've shared a bathroom with someone who was assigned male at birth and still has a penis.

I'm really not sure where this fantasy about urinals came from, I'm not really tracking your train of thought there. Your daughter is going to be a lot older than a toddler if this dream ever comes to fruition, because trans people are still being attacked and killed in front of bystanders in public...we're a little ways off from achieving the urinal dream. So I guess it'll be someone else's (improbable) problem, if that makes you feel better.

I find it interesting you are only concerned with people who are "biologically male." How do you feel about men with facial hair in the women's restroom?

I dunno, I'm just confused because someone commented to me this weekend that "the bathroom thing" at schools was enough to make any reasonable person start homeschooling. If you're transphobic, that's...not cool or understandable to me, but it's a thing that I can understand. What I don't get is the context in which some of these comments are made, like do you not realize this is already happening and you can't tell? You seem to think that a trans person will be easily identifiable to you but I think you might be surprised. The only thing that's being debated is whether to codify the rights and protections of trans people. It really has nothing to do with the general usage of the bathroom because this is already happening and will continue to happen unless you plan to stand at door asking people to pull down their pants for an inspection when they walk in the door. go ahead and make it illegal and the man with facial hair still isn't going to use the women's bathroom (although he should just to prove a point, maybe it would blow some minds). I guess it's a little more of a gray area with schools but it's still already happening.

It isn't transphobic to simply not want children to see grown men peeing in the womens bathroom. If trans are permitted then that means any man can use the womens bathroom, at any time, and no one can refuse it, because we certainly can't do underwear checks. Think about how this would or could be controlled. It can't. As such, transgender people need their own bathroom.

You are really not grasping my point about my daughter, either. I am not just worried about her but for all young girls.

It will never pass constitutional muster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this. If you want to be bold enough to don a skirt and high heels and a red wig, then you should know people will stare or laugh. It's unusual to see a 6' man dressed like this. Learn to ignore. If you are at risk of being raped in the mens bathroom, then the mens bathroom needs a full time attendant; it shouldn't be the women's problem to accommodate you in their bathroom. You are biologically male and the mens bathroom is for people who are biologically male, regardless of how they like
to dress.

I find it a bit astounding that trans people are literally being attacked and killed in public places in this country while bystanders watch and...you think that trans women are going to lead a successful campaign for urinals in the nation's restrooms? I really mean this in the least sarcastic way possible. I can't tell whether you're serious or this is a parody.

If you really live in DC and go out in public frequently, I'd wager money that you've shared a bathroom with someone who was assigned male at birth and still has a penis.

I'm really not sure where this fantasy about urinals came from, I'm not really tracking your train of thought there. Your daughter is going to be a lot older than a toddler if this dream ever comes to fruition, because trans people are still being attacked and killed in front of bystanders in public...we're a little ways off from achieving the urinal dream. So I guess it'll be someone else's (improbable) problem, if that makes you feel better.

I find it interesting you are only concerned with people who are "biologically male." How do you feel about men with facial hair in the women's restroom?

I dunno, I'm just confused because someone commented to me this weekend that "the bathroom thing" at schools was enough to make any reasonable person start homeschooling. If you're transphobic, that's...not cool or understandable to me, but it's a thing that I can understand. What I don't get is the context in which some of these comments are made, like do you not realize this is already happening and you can't tell? You seem to think that a trans person will be easily identifiable to you but I think you might be surprised. The only thing that's being debated is whether to codify the rights and protections of trans people. It really has nothing to do with the general usage of the bathroom because this is already happening and will continue to happen unless you plan to stand at door asking people to pull down their pants for an inspection when they walk in the door. go ahead and make it illegal and the man with facial hair still isn't going to use the women's bathroom (although he should just to prove a point, maybe it would blow some minds). I guess it's a little more of a gray area with schools but it's still already happening.

It isn't transphobic to simply not want children to see grown men peeing in the womens bathroom. If trans are permitted then that means any man can use the womens bathroom, at any time, and no one can refuse it, because we certainly can't do underwear checks. Think about how this would or could be controlled. It can't. As such, transgender people need their own bathroom.

You are really not grasping my point about my daughter, either. I am not just worried about her but for all young girls.

It will never pass constitutional muster.

Their own bathroom? Like a giant neon sign that says "hey look at me. I get my own separate but equal bathroom!" Your kids are growing up differently. They are not going to care if a dude is peeing in a locked stall. In fact, if a transgender person is in there, you may not even know because they are using that bathroom so that they can pass as that sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this. If you want to be bold enough to don a skirt and high heels and a red wig, then you should know people will stare or laugh. It's unusual to see a 6' man dressed like this. Learn to ignore. If you are at risk of being raped in the mens bathroom, then the mens bathroom needs a full time attendant; it shouldn't be the women's problem to accommodate you in their bathroom. You are biologically male and the mens bathroom is for people who are biologically male, regardless of how they like
to dress.

I find it a bit astounding that trans people are literally being attacked and killed in public places in this country while bystanders watch and...you think that trans women are going to lead a successful campaign for urinals in the nation's restrooms? I really mean this in the least sarcastic way possible. I can't tell whether you're serious or this is a parody.

If you really live in DC and go out in public frequently, I'd wager money that you've shared a bathroom with someone who was assigned male at birth and still has a penis.

I'm really not sure where this fantasy about urinals came from, I'm not really tracking your train of thought there. Your daughter is going to be a lot older than a toddler if this dream ever comes to fruition, because trans people are still being attacked and killed in front of bystanders in public...we're a little ways off from achieving the urinal dream. So I guess it'll be someone else's (improbable) problem, if that makes you feel better.

I find it interesting you are only concerned with people who are "biologically male." How do you feel about men with facial hair in the women's restroom?

I dunno, I'm just confused because someone commented to me this weekend that "the bathroom thing" at schools was enough to make any reasonable person start homeschooling. If you're transphobic, that's...not cool or understandable to me, but it's a thing that I can understand. What I don't get is the context in which some of these comments are made, like do you not realize this is already happening and you can't tell? You seem to think that a trans person will be easily identifiable to you but I think you might be surprised. The only thing that's being debated is whether to codify the rights and protections of trans people. It really has nothing to do with the general usage of the bathroom because this is already happening and will continue to happen unless you plan to stand at door asking people to pull down their pants for an inspection when they walk in the door. go ahead and make it illegal and the man with facial hair still isn't going to use the women's bathroom (although he should just to prove a point, maybe it would blow some minds). I guess it's a little more of a gray area with schools but it's still already happening.

It isn't transphobic to simply not want children to see grown men peeing in the womens bathroom. If trans are permitted then that means any man can use the womens bathroom, at any time, and no one can refuse it, because we certainly can't do underwear checks. Think about how this would or could be controlled. It can't. As such, transgender people need their own bathroom.

You are really not grasping my point about my daughter, either. I am not just worried about her but for all young girls.

It will never pass constitutional muster.

Forgive me if this is obtuse, but how would your child be "seeing a man peeping in the women's bathroom"? As PPs have covered, there are doors on the stalls, and if there's a question about whether a stall is occupied, we should check for feet, rather than seeing anyone using the facility. Even if there is a wide crack in the door, a biological male sitting down to pee looks just like a woman on the toilet, and someone standing up to pee would just be showing their back.