Secular family values rock!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting for formatting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There have always been variations in beliefs. faith is what counts

And how do you have faith in something that's so unpredictable? If your boss set down ground rules one day and then changed them the next week with no guarantee even THOSE would be permanent, would you have faith in him/her?

get it?

And who's setting the rules in religion? humans

Take a deep breath. Go do something that's meaningful to your own life, that improves your own life and the lives of your family members.

Ditch your pointless bickering with people of faith, ditch your unconvincing and repetitive rants, ditch your snideness (get it?). You're not convincing anybody here; they've heard your arguments a million times before. (Often from you, and see how effective that was?)

More germane to this thread, nothing about your behavior here makes the atheist struggle-bus look particularly attractive. No matter how many newspaper articles about secular families you post.

You don't want to be just like the anti-public school losers on the private school forum, or the anti-Islam bigots on the political forum, do you? Because from here, you look exactly like those losers.

I haven't posted any articles on secular families. You must think there's one atheist floating around these threads. You're probably outnumbered.

And I'm a loser? lol That doesn't surprise me that a Christian - who follows God's rules - would lower him/herself by name calling. So be it. I'm a loser b/c I think the bible is filled with fairy tales.

I know how much I do each day to help others. Every day I accomplish something meaningful. But I don't do it to earn my spot in heaven. I do it b/c it's important.

Name calling may be the first sign of giving up, being out of arguments. Next comes skepticism and atheism isn't too far down the road from that. However, at some point, it means giving up the fantasy of eternal life. That's a big stumbling block for some people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I have Aspergers and therefore little empathy. I do, however, have morals and values that come from my faith.

And without your faith, you'd have no morals and values?

Correct. I don't have the human self-awareness and empathy you referenced. I need "rules".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I have Aspergers and therefore little empathy. I do, however, have morals and values that come from my faith.

And without your faith, you'd have no morals and values?

Correct. I don't have the human self-awareness and empathy you referenced. I need "rules".

I must be a bit Aspergers too. I can easily imagine human societies that are very comfortable with cruelty and even murder. The thought of them does not repulse me or seem unnatural. To me, the "golden rule" has always seemed like wishful thinking, given the immense cruelty inherent in human nature and demonstrated throughout history. It seems like wishful thinking on the part of the weak (I'm weak too, but I don't really expect the strong to in any way treat me well. I just wish they would.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming to your own conclusions is not faith, it's skepticism.

People of faith know what faith is. If it feels like faith, then it's faith. They can be skeptical of some things - like the honesty of politicians or car salesmen, but when it comes to their faith, they believe what they want to believe.

People without faith can't understand this. To them it seems like silliness, lack of intellect or some kind of weird blindspot. But people of faith understand and are not fazed. They know that they are just as intelligent and analytical and skeptical as anyone else about matters unrelated to their religious faith.

You can call a pumpkin a volkswagen all you want, but you are only fooling yourself and looking stupid in front of others. Religious faith grow stronger by overcoming skepticism, not yielding to it. Don't conflate religious faith with general usage of "faith", which is assumptions made about the world based on observable and empirical evidence, such as honesty of politicians or car salesmen. Religious faith has no basis in evidence.

Why not be equally skeptical about what you believe in terms of the origins of this world and our species? Why must you give up your intelligence and analytical abilities when practicing your religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming to your own conclusions is not faith, it's skepticism.

People of faith know what faith is. If it feels like faith, then it's faith. They can be skeptical of some things - like the honesty of politicians or car salesmen, but when it comes to their faith, they believe what they want to believe.

People without faith can't understand this. To them it seems like silliness, lack of intellect or some kind of weird blindspot. But people of faith understand and are not fazed. They know that they are just as intelligent and analytical and skeptical as anyone else about matters unrelated to their religious faith.

You can call a pumpkin a volkswagen all you want, but you are only fooling yourself and looking stupid in front of others. Religious faith grow stronger by overcoming skepticism, not yielding to it. Don't conflate religious faith with general usage of "faith", which is assumptions made about the world based on observable and empirical evidence, such as honesty of politicians or car salesmen. Religious faith has no basis in evidence.

Why not be equally skeptical about what you believe in terms of the origins of this world and our species? Why must you give up your intelligence and analytical abilities when practicing your religion?

NP. Why are you so set on debating with those you see as stupid? It's like a dog with a bone how you can't come to some acceptance that it doesn't align with your thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Take a deep breath. Go do something that's meaningful to your own life, that improves your own life and the lives of your family members.

Ditch your pointless bickering with people of faith, ditch your unconvincing and repetitive rants, ditch your snideness (get it?). You're not convincing anybody here; they've heard your arguments a million times before. (Often from you, and see how effective that was?)

More germane to this thread, nothing about your behavior here makes the atheist struggle-bus look particularly attractive. No matter how many newspaper articles about secular families you post.

You don't want to be just like the anti-public school losers on the private school forum, or the anti-Islam bigots on the political forum, do you? Because from here, you look exactly like those losers.

I haven't posted any articles on secular families. You must think there's one atheist floating around these threads. You're probably outnumbered.

And I'm a loser? lol That doesn't surprise me that a Christian - who follows God's rules - would lower him/herself by name calling. So be it. I'm a loser b/c I think the bible is filled with fairy tales.

I know how much I do each day to help others. Every day I accomplish something meaningful. But I don't do it to earn my spot in heaven. I do it b/c it's important.

You're too predictable. You need new material!
- I'm not Christian.
- Your gotcha games are very predictable. For example, your game of insulting people and then when they insult you back, even mildly, you call them a hypocrite.

Get a life....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming to your own conclusions is not faith, it's skepticism.

People of faith know what faith is. If it feels like faith, then it's faith. They can be skeptical of some things - like the honesty of politicians or car salesmen, but when it comes to their faith, they believe what they want to believe.

People without faith can't understand this. To them it seems like silliness, lack of intellect or some kind of weird blindspot. But people of faith understand and are not fazed. They know that they are just as intelligent and analytical and skeptical as anyone else about matters unrelated to their religious faith.

You can call a pumpkin a volkswagen all you want, but you are only fooling yourself and looking stupid in front of others. Religious faith grow stronger by overcoming skepticism, not yielding to it. Don't conflate religious faith with general usage of "faith", which is assumptions made about the world based on observable and empirical evidence, such as honesty of politicians or car salesmen. Religious faith has no basis in evidence.

Why not be equally skeptical about what you believe in terms of the origins of this world and our species? Why must you give up your intelligence and analytical abilities when practicing your religion?

It's not given up, it's turned over -- another concept that people without faith don't understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I have Aspergers and therefore little empathy. I do, however, have morals and values that come from my faith.

And without your faith, you'd have no morals and values?

Correct. I don't have the human self-awareness and empathy you referenced. I need "rules".

Does it have to be religious rules? How about societal rules, like do not kill, do not cheat, do not dump your garbage in the street, do not go 60 in a 30 mph zone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming to your own conclusions is not faith, it's skepticism.

People of faith know what faith is. If it feels like faith, then it's faith. They can be skeptical of some things - like the honesty of politicians or car salesmen, but when it comes to their faith, they believe what they want to believe.

People without faith can't understand this. To them it seems like silliness, lack of intellect or some kind of weird blindspot. But people of faith understand and are not fazed. They know that they are just as intelligent and analytical and skeptical as anyone else about matters unrelated to their religious faith.

You can call a pumpkin a volkswagen all you want, but you are only fooling yourself and looking stupid in front of others. Religious faith grow stronger by overcoming skepticism, not yielding to it. Don't conflate religious faith with general usage of "faith", which is assumptions made about the world based on observable and empirical evidence, such as honesty of politicians or car salesmen. Religious faith has no basis in evidence.

Why not be equally skeptical about what you believe in terms of the origins of this world and our species? Why must you give up your intelligence and analytical abilities when practicing your religion?

NP. Why are you so set on debating with those you see as stupid? It's like a dog with a bone how you can't come to some acceptance that it doesn't align with your thinking.

First, I like debating. I like discussing ideas with people who disagree with me. It exercises my mind, and often allow me to see things from new perspectives. Second, there's a notable separation in the mindset of believers, a compartmentalization of rationality where believers surrender their intellect at the start of every religious thought. The post I was replying to above admitted as much, in the section that I've now bolded. So the stupidity is apparent, but not innate; the goal here is to show the person how irrational his belief is, and reduce the numbing effects of religion on those who believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming to your own conclusions is not faith, it's skepticism.

People of faith know what faith is. If it feels like faith, then it's faith. They can be skeptical of some things - like the honesty of politicians or car salesmen, but when it comes to their faith, they believe what they want to believe.

People without faith can't understand this. To them it seems like silliness, lack of intellect or some kind of weird blindspot. But people of faith understand and are not fazed. They know that they are just as intelligent and analytical and skeptical as anyone else about matters unrelated to their religious faith.

You can call a pumpkin a volkswagen all you want, but you are only fooling yourself and looking stupid in front of others. Religious faith grow stronger by overcoming skepticism, not yielding to it. Don't conflate religious faith with general usage of "faith", which is assumptions made about the world based on observable and empirical evidence, such as honesty of politicians or car salesmen. Religious faith has no basis in evidence.

Why not be equally skeptical about what you believe in terms of the origins of this world and our species? Why must you give up your intelligence and analytical abilities when practicing your religion?

It's not given up, it's turned over -- another concept that people without faith don't understand.

LOL, that's like an alcoholic saying that he has self control just like anyone else, except "it's turned over" when he got drunk over, and over, and over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming to your own conclusions is not faith, it's skepticism.

People of faith know what faith is. If it feels like faith, then it's faith. They can be skeptical of some things - like the honesty of politicians or car salesmen, but when it comes to their faith, they believe what they want to believe.

People without faith can't understand this. To them it seems like silliness, lack of intellect or some kind of weird blindspot. But people of faith understand and are not fazed. They know that they are just as intelligent and analytical and skeptical as anyone else about matters unrelated to their religious faith.

You can call a pumpkin a volkswagen all you want, but you are only fooling yourself and looking stupid in front of others. Religious faith grow stronger by overcoming skepticism, not yielding to it. Don't conflate religious faith with general usage of "faith", which is assumptions made about the world based on observable and empirical evidence, such as honesty of politicians or car salesmen. Religious faith has no basis in evidence.

Why not be equally skeptical about what you believe in terms of the origins of this world and our species? Why must you give up your intelligence and analytical abilities when practicing your religion?

It's not given up, it's turned over -- another concept that people without faith don't understand.

LOL, that's like an alcoholic saying that he has self control just like anyone else, except "it's turned over" when he got drunk over, and over, and over.

Not the pp.
Your simile is very lame and not at all relevant.
Reaching, are we?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming to your own conclusions is not faith, it's skepticism.

People of faith know what faith is. If it feels like faith, then it's faith. They can be skeptical of some things - like the honesty of politicians or car salesmen, but when it comes to their faith, they believe what they want to believe.

People without faith can't understand this. To them it seems like silliness, lack of intellect or some kind of weird blindspot. But people of faith understand and are not fazed. They know that they are just as intelligent and analytical and skeptical as anyone else about matters unrelated to their religious faith.

You can call a pumpkin a volkswagen all you want, but you are only fooling yourself and looking stupid in front of others. Religious faith grow stronger by overcoming skepticism, not yielding to it. Don't conflate religious faith with general usage of "faith", which is assumptions made about the world based on observable and empirical evidence, such as honesty of politicians or car salesmen. Religious faith has no basis in evidence.

Why not be equally skeptical about what you believe in terms of the origins of this world and our species? Why must you give up your intelligence and analytical abilities when practicing your religion?

NP. Why are you so set on debating with those you see as stupid? It's like a dog with a bone how you can't come to some acceptance that it doesn't align with your thinking.

First, I like debating. I like discussing ideas with people who disagree with me. It exercises my mind, and often allow me to see things from new perspectives. Second, there's a notable separation in the mindset of believers, a compartmentalization of rationality where believers surrender their intellect at the start of every religious thought. The post I was replying to above admitted as much, in the section that I've now bolded. So the stupidity is apparent, but not innate; the goal here is to show the person how irrational his belief is, and reduce the numbing effects of religion on those who believe.

NP. You like taunting and criticizing, not "debating."

We never see anything from you besides snark and the easiest of glib, unthinking retorts. The sort of retort that a dozen monkeys could type if given time. Your so-called point about faith is an excellent case in point, thanks for bringing it up. You are apparently confused about the differences between faith and surrendering intellect and "stupidity." Grab yourself a dictionary and learn how these things aren't on some very short continuum where you can just cheaply elide the meanings together; they aren't even on the same plane.

All of which makes you an internet troll. Agree with the point that internet trolls are losers.

(Cue entirely predictable cheap shot that I must be a hypocritical Christian or something. Wrong.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Coming to your own conclusions is not faith, it's skepticism.

People of faith know what faith is. If it feels like faith, then it's faith. They can be skeptical of some things - like the honesty of politicians or car salesmen, but when it comes to their faith, they believe what they want to believe.

People without faith can't understand this. To them it seems like silliness, lack of intellect or some kind of weird blindspot. But people of faith understand and are not fazed. They know that they are just as intelligent and analytical and skeptical as anyone else about matters unrelated to their religious faith.

You can call a pumpkin a volkswagen all you want, but you are only fooling yourself and looking stupid in front of others. Religious faith grow stronger by overcoming skepticism, not yielding to it. Don't conflate religious faith with general usage of "faith", which is assumptions made about the world based on observable and empirical evidence, such as honesty of politicians or car salesmen. Religious faith has no basis in evidence.

Why not be equally skeptical about what you believe in terms of the origins of this world and our species? Why must you give up your intelligence and analytical abilities when practicing your religion?

NP. Why are you so set on debating with those you see as stupid? It's like a dog with a bone how you can't come to some acceptance that it doesn't align with your thinking.

First, I like debating. I like discussing ideas with people who disagree with me. It exercises my mind, and often allow me to see things from new perspectives. Second, there's a notable separation in the mindset of believers, a compartmentalization of rationality where believers surrender their intellect at the start of every religious thought. The post I was replying to above admitted as much, in the section that I've now bolded. So the stupidity is apparent, but not innate; the goal here is to show the person how irrational his belief is, and reduce the numbing effects of religion on those who believe.

NP. You like taunting and criticizing, not "debating."

We never see anything from you besides snark and the easiest of glib, unthinking retorts. The sort of retort that a dozen monkeys could type if given time. Your so-called point about faith is an excellent case in point, thanks for bringing it up. You are apparently confused about the differences between faith and surrendering intellect and "stupidity." Grab yourself a dictionary and learn how these things aren't on some very short continuum where you can just cheaply elide the meanings together; they aren't even on the same plane.

All of which makes you an internet troll. Agree with the point that internet trolls are losers.

(Cue entirely predictable cheap shot that I must be a hypocritical Christian or something. Wrong.)

Seriously? would you call this hyperbole, snark, unthinking cheap shot, projection or something else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I have Aspergers and therefore little empathy. I do, however, have morals and values that come from my faith.

And without your faith, you'd have no morals and values?

Correct. I don't have the human self-awareness and empathy you referenced. I need "rules".

Does it have to be religious rules? How about societal rules, like do not kill, do not cheat, do not dump your garbage in the street, do not go 60 in a 30 mph zone?

Well, I don't like rules in general - faith-based rules are fewer in number than the laws created by people who just seek to control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I have Aspergers and therefore little empathy. I do, however, have morals and values that come from my faith.

And without your faith, you'd have no morals and values?

Correct. I don't have the human self-awareness and empathy you referenced. I need "rules".

Does it have to be religious rules? How about societal rules, like do not kill, do not cheat, do not dump your garbage in the street, do not go 60 in a 30 mph zone?

How about the secular rules under Stalin, Pol Pot or Mao? Because that worked so well.