Secular family values rock!

[Anonymous]

Yea tho I walk through the valley of the shadow if death I fear no evil....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo

Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.

I personally think it's childish to hold some imaginary eternal punishment over someone's head, telling them that they will burn in hell for eternity even if they didn't do anything wrong, because of an act that their great great great great grand-daddy and grandmamma committed, UNLESS they accept Jesus and live their lives in a fashion exactly as prescribed by the church. Religion treats us like children.

OP here. We attended the funeral of a dear friend of mine at one of the mega-churches in the area a year ago. I have to say I was shocked at how cold and threatening-sounding the sermon turned out to be. The preacher brandished a little crucifix he had brought back from a foreign mission and went on and on about how we were awash in sin, how the only way to gain access to heaven was to accept Christ in your heart and how you couldn't freeload on the grace of others. He said little about my friend other than that she was a true believer, and nothing about any of the central, most beautiful messages in the Bible about love, acceptance, forgiveness.
I went in grieving deeply and came out wishing I could clear my head of the hateful rants of a very angry man. And so glad we're not raising our kids religiously.

I find what's sad is you went to one church and came out indoctrinated with contempt. One church.

I went to a memorial service for the woman and children (I didn't know them) whose home was destroyed by a plane in Gaithersburg. The large church where the service was held had a sermon presentation which was one of the tender and sympathy and compassion and love of Christ. How different our experience.

[Anonymous]

And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Yeah, the 10% is to line Joel Osteen's pockets! LMAO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo

Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.

I personally think it's childish to hold some imaginary eternal punishment over someone's head, telling them that they will burn in hell for eternity even if they didn't do anything wrong, because of an act that their great great great great grand-daddy and grandmamma committed, UNLESS they accept Jesus and live their lives in a fashion exactly as prescribed by the church. Religion treats us like children.

But there are a lot of people who truly need guidance and don't seem to know right from wrong. Religion is perfect for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Just pointing out your own ignorance. Yes, yes, we all know full well you've been told that what you give goes to the church to support good works. But, the reality of it is that very little of what is given actually ever makes it to help those who most need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Morals and values don't come from religion. They come from empathy. The "Golden Rule" of treating others as you would have them treat you is not something that Judeo-Christian faith can claim to own, it's far older, it comes from human self-awareness.

I'm a Christian and this is a silly rule for beginners/children. There's a tinge of selfishness to it, don't you think? Do something because it is right. Right and wrong. Right action. This also exists in many religions and philosophies. That being said, the teachings of Christ are a wonderful guide if you are trying to determine right from wrong. xo

Really? That's like saying christians do something right so you won't go to hell. If God wanted to create a system where people had no selfish motivation to be good or bad, he could send everyone to the same afterlife regardless.

I personally think it's childish to hold some imaginary eternal punishment over someone's head, telling them that they will burn in hell for eternity even if they didn't do anything wrong, because of an act that their great great great great grand-daddy and grandmamma committed, UNLESS they accept Jesus and live their lives in a fashion exactly as prescribed by the church. Religion treats us like children.

But there are a lot of people who truly need guidance and don't seem to know right from wrong. Religion is perfect for them.

Good, then let them go to church, and leave the rest of us who have a head on our shoulders out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Just pointing out your own ignorance. Yes, yes, we all know full well you've been told that what you give goes to the church to support good works. But, the reality of it is that very little of what is given actually ever makes it to help those who most need it.

Isn't church and charity similar to society in that the middle and lower class given a larger percentage of their income to smaller churches? And richer folks give less but to large outfits. And donations to the small branches find their way to more in need while the larger orgs help keep their cult maestros in million dollar houses and fancy lifestyles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Just pointing out your own ignorance. Yes, yes, we all know full well you've been told that what you give goes to the church to support good works. But, the reality of it is that very little of what is given actually ever makes it to help those who most need it.

Isn't church and charity similar to society in that the middle and lower class given a larger percentage of their income to smaller churches? And richer folks give less but to large outfits. And donations to the small branches find their way to more in need while the larger orgs help keep their cult maestros in million dollar houses and fancy lifestyles.

A whole different discussion,... BUT....
The work of the church is not done only by what is taken in by the offering plate.
Churches also have initiatives that provide food for the needy, shelter for the homeless, goods for unwed mothers, support for battered women’s shelters, a place for other charitable and humanitarian organizations to meet, services for homebound or indigent people, assistance for the elderly.... etc., etc., etc.
So, those of you who are atheists or non-religious are really missing out on opportunities to help the local and international communities in ways which our government cannot do efficiently.
A church is much more than a building. It is a community of people with similar beliefs and a desire to help other people because the Lord commanded... “Go and make disciples of all people.” The best way to do this is through our actions and our deeds. This is something many of you simply do not understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Just pointing out your own ignorance. Yes, yes, we all know full well you've been told that what you give goes to the church to support good works. But, the reality of it is that very little of what is given actually ever makes it to help those who most need it.

And you know this how? What? By looking at some charlatan and labeling all by the actions of some? Maybe it's you who's ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Just pointing out your own ignorance. Yes, yes, we all know full well you've been told that what you give goes to the church to support good works. But, the reality of it is that very little of what is given actually ever makes it to help those who most need it.

Isn't church and charity similar to society in that the middle and lower class given a larger percentage of their income to smaller churches? And richer folks give less but to large outfits. And donations to the small branches find their way to more in need while the larger orgs help keep their cult maestros in million dollar houses and fancy lifestyles.

A whole different discussion,... BUT....
The work of the church is not done only by what is taken in by the offering plate.
Churches also have initiatives that provide food for the needy, shelter for the homeless, goods for unwed mothers, support for battered women’s shelters, a place for other charitable and humanitarian organizations to meet, services for homebound or indigent people, assistance for the elderly.... etc., etc., etc.
So, those of you who are atheists or non-religious are really missing out on opportunities to help the local and international communities in ways which our government cannot do efficiently.
A church is much more than a building. It is a community of people with similar beliefs and a desire to help other people because the Lord commanded... “Go and make disciples of all people.” The best way to do this is through our actions and our deeds. This is something many of you simply do not understand.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yea tho I walk through the valley of the shadow if death I fear no evil....

Huh? You just felt like saying that or does it have relevance to this discussion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, oh, let's not forget about that part where you pay 10% of your income to pay for an invisible thing that you won't ever receive until after you're dead...

So many con men and charlatans in the church...

That's not the purpose of the 10% (or whatever you offer) to pay for some invisible thing. Do your homework before you open your mouth with erroneous information.

So many ignoramuses and loudmouths.

Just pointing out your own ignorance. Yes, yes, we all know full well you've been told that what you give goes to the church to support good works. But, the reality of it is that very little of what is given actually ever makes it to help those who most need it.

Isn't church and charity similar to society in that the middle and lower class given a larger percentage of their income to smaller churches? And richer folks give less but to large outfits. And donations to the small branches find their way to more in need while the larger orgs help keep their cult maestros in million dollar houses and fancy lifestyles.

A whole different discussion,... BUT....
The work of the church is not done only by what is taken in by the offering plate.
Churches also have initiatives that provide food for the needy, shelter for the homeless, goods for unwed mothers, support for battered women’s shelters, a place for other charitable and humanitarian organizations to meet, services for homebound or indigent people, assistance for the elderly.... etc., etc., etc.
So, those of you who are atheists or non-religious are really missing out on opportunities to help the local and international communities in ways which our government cannot do efficiently.
A church is much more than a building. It is a community of people with similar beliefs and a desire to help other people because the Lord commanded... “Go and make disciples of all people.” The best way to do this is through our actions and our deeds. This is something many of you simply do not understand.

+1000

i am a church going Christian. But I have done the analysis of a number of church budgets. About 5% of a church's donations goes to the poor or disadvantaged.

[Anonymous]

i am a church going Christian. But I have done the analysis of a number of church budgets. About 5% of a church's donations goes to the poor or disadvantaged.

If you are referring to my somewhat lengthy post - please note that I listed the work of the church that does not come from the offering plate. Many of the philanthropic deeds in a church are done by its congregants outside of the tithing or weekly offering. And, it would be difficult to place a value on the TIME that church members spend doing these things.