Completely Lost It on my Teen DD

[Anonymous]

Hey there everybody. It seems like most everyone who has posted is talking about teenage girls. Boys too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who don't subscribe to an authoritarian parenting style, it really is hard to understand the need to demand "respect." As adults, don't we have enough self-respect that we don't need tribute from our children for our self-esteem?

Of course teens can be grating and that can make parents sad. They're supposed to be pushing off to find their own way. It is not as if there isn't plenty of research on child/teen development and the dynamics behind how the parent-child relationship changes. In exchange for suffering the teenage years, we get to have an interesting adult relationship with them.

My goal is for DC to become a happy, well-adjusted adult with good moral judgment. Simply demanding compliance to parental demands doesn't do much to build ethical thinking, since you can't rely on someone else to tell you what to do as an adult.

And to further the parenting culture wars, I doubt a passive or compliant child is going to have the ambition or wherewithal to become a real high achiever. It's how you produce binge-drinking frat boys/sorority girls at third tier colleges and future sales reps.

we don't need tribute from our children for our self-esteem?

I don't. My child needs to recognize that he is still my child.

My goal is for DC to become a happy, well-adjusted adult with good moral judgment. Simply demanding compliance to parental demands doesn't do much to build ethical thinking, since you can't rely on someone else to tell you what to do as an adult.

Same goal here. Parenting is more than simply demanding compliance. Are your parents ethical thinkers? How about your grandparents, aunts, uncles.. etc? Was compliance and respect optional in their homes, or was it expected?

I doubt a passive or compliant child is going to have the ambition....

You can doubt all you want.. it happens. There's a whole middle ground there you've missed. Kids don't have to be disrespectful, combative and rude to grow up to be independent, ambitious adults. Looking at my own family and friends, it's the combative ones who are the less ambitious. It's the one who didn't learn any respect for anyone who lost his business because he couldn't keep employees. He treated them with the same lack of respect he treated everyone else. Nobody would stay working with him, and it reached the point that nobody would hire his company either. He couldn't keep his "ambitious" opinions to himself.

[Anonymous]

The authoritarian parent sees no difference between demanding respect and demanding adherence to rules and boundaries.

You absolutely need rules and boundaries and you absolutely need to insist your kid adhere to them.

But respect is something that is given, not demanded. If you just demand respect, without modeling it back, your kid may refrain from cursing you out, but inside he won't respect you. Your kid is old enough to recognize hypocrisy and petty tyrants when he sees them. Respect has to be given willingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree. Teaching children to respect authority will serve them well in their adult life.

Some of us want children who grow up to be a leader, not a follower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree. Teaching children to respect authority will serve them well in their adult life.

Some of us want children who grow up to be a leader, not a follower.

The best leaders are respectful of everyone, even those who have different goals and values than they do. Diplomatic charm! It's a valuable social skill.

Being rude and combative rarely gets you anywhere good.

[Anonymous]

I'm not the middle ground poster, and I'm not sure I agree with her on every point, except that some of you are missing the middle ground.

The kids I know with my-way-or-the-highway parents are timid wallflowers.

The free range kids with few or no boundaries go off the rails starting at about age 14. In the best cases, they don't live up to their potentials because they don't complete stuff or they're too entitled and used to having their own ways that they don't develop good work ethics or the ability to listen to others' input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree. Teaching children to respect authority will serve them well in their adult life.

Some of us want children who grow up to be a leader, not a follower.

The best leaders are respectful of everyone, even those who have different goals and values than they do. Diplomatic charm! It's a valuable social skill.

Being rude and combative rarely gets you anywhere good.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree. Teaching children to respect authority will serve them well in their adult life.

Some of us want children who grow up to be a leader, not a follower.

Sure, who doesn't. But what's your point. They should be allowed to yell/scream/curse at their parents because disallowing that will lead them to be just followers? I'm a leader, and I definitely wasn't allowed to do that crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree. Teaching children to respect authority will serve them well in their adult life.

Some of us want children who grow up to be a leader, not a follower.

(Almost) all leaders have someone else in a position of authority over them. All leaders started out as something other than the top person on the totem pole, and therefore needed to know how to relate to others, including others in positions of authority, in a way that respects the individual's position of authority but still allows their own contributions and ideas to be heard.

Leaders should treat their subordinates respectfully as well, obviously, but I see no way for a society to function if there is no respect for persons in positions of legitimate authority.

If you disagree with something your boss at work has told you to do, there is a respectful way to address this and a disrespectful way to react. If you choose the disrespectful route, whatever the job is does not get done and you probably get written up for insubordination or fired. If you had been taught how to communicate with an authority figure in a respectful way, you might have been able to find out why the boss needed you to do whatever it was, and if you had a better idea about how to accomplish the task you could probably have shared that -- or maybe (most likely) you weren't privy to all of the pertinent information and your boss needs the thing done his/her way for a reason.

If someone in a position of authority has made a rule, policy, law, etc. it is probably a good idea to follow it, or if you disagree with it for some reason work through legitimate avenues to have your opinion heard. It is probably an unproductive idea (although one that might be your right under US law as long as it doesn't involve a threat) to completely lose your mind and scream "F%^& YOU" at the person or persons who made the policy you do not like. That is unlikely to get anyone anywhere. It is probably a bad idea to disregard the rule/law and just do whatever you darn well please anyway. Widely applied, this would lead to lawlessness and anarchy.

All people function in a world where there are outside authorities that have some say over their actions. The most successful individuals are those who have learned how to respect this structure without allowing it to constrain or stifle their own personalities, ideas, and opinions.

[Anonymous]

sorry. FU has no place in my house. Period. No disrespect both ways! Sorry. But I am suspecting she is modelling you in some aspects....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree. Teaching children to respect authority will serve them well in their adult life.

Some of us want children who grow up to be a leader, not a follower.

(Almost) all leaders have someone else in a position of authority over them. All leaders started out as something other than the top person on the totem pole, and therefore needed to know how to relate to others, including others in positions of authority, in a way that respects the individual's position of authority but still allows their own contributions and ideas to be heard.

Leaders should treat their subordinates respectfully as well, obviously, but I see no way for a society to function if there is no respect for persons in positions of legitimate authority.

If you disagree with something your boss at work has told you to do, there is a respectful way to address this and a disrespectful way to react. If you choose the disrespectful route, whatever the job is does not get done and you probably get written up for insubordination or fired. If you had been taught how to communicate with an authority figure in a respectful way, you might have been able to find out why the boss needed you to do whatever it was, and if you had a better idea about how to accomplish the task you could probably have shared that -- or maybe (most likely) you weren't privy to all of the pertinent information and your boss needs the thing done his/her way for a reason.

If someone in a position of authority has made a rule, policy, law, etc. it is probably a good idea to follow it, or if you disagree with it for some reason work through legitimate avenues to have your opinion heard. It is probably an unproductive idea (although one that might be your right under US law as long as it doesn't involve a threat) to completely lose your mind and scream "F%^& YOU" at the person or persons who made the policy you do not like. That is unlikely to get anyone anywhere. It is probably a bad idea to disregard the rule/law and just do whatever you darn well please anyway. Widely applied, this would lead to lawlessness and anarchy.

All people function in a world where there are outside authorities that have some say over their actions. The most successful individuals are those who have learned how to respect this structure without allowing it to constrain or stifle their own personalities, ideas, and opinions.

This.

You're not doing your kids any favors if you remove their opportunities to practice negotiating with power. Whether you go to one extreme and you let them insult you freely, or you go to the other extreme by smacking them across the mouth (an earlier PP), your kids aren't getting the chance to develop communication and conflict skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey there everybody. It seems like most everyone who has posted is talking about teenage girls. Boys too?

Oh yes, boys! In our family the girl (now in college) was easy and the boy was a a real trial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who don't subscribe to an authoritarian parenting style, it really is hard to understand the need to demand "respect." As adults, don't we have enough self-respect that we don't need tribute from our children for our self-esteem?

I would be considered either authoritarian or authoritative, depending on who is evaluating me and what their standards are. We definitely have rules that are expected to be followed, and the parents are the authority figures in our home. We consider the kids' input at age appropriate levels, but we are not running our home as a democracy. We believe that children need defined rules and limits, and that while the number and strictness of rules should probably decrease as the girls grow up and exhibit increasing amounts of wisdom and responsibility there should still be parental authority for so long as our children have not yet completed their journey to adulthood.

The majority of the reason I "demand" (your word, not mine) respect from my kids is because respect is a core value of our family.

I am a human. I am not "just" my child's parent -- someone she can regard as a source of food, shelter, clothing, funds, advice, rides, phones, and whatever else -- but also, fundamentally a human being who is my own person and with my own inherent human dignity. I love my DDs dearly. But love does not (should not) mean that I will accept rude treatment or that I will allow myself to be demeaned, sworn at, or taken advantage of. That is not love, that is not what I want my children to think love is, that is not the kind of "love" I want them to find someday. Love includes loving yourself -- being strong enough to say, I am worthy of kindness and I am not going to let myself be treated with disdain or disregard. That is something I want to instill in my kids. That is something I think I need to instill in my daughters especially, because I have seen too many women accepting treatment from spouses or others in their lives that should never be accepted by any person.

All people have inherent human worth and dignity. All people should be treated with basic respect. I am a person. Therefore I should be treated with respect -- not with rudeness, and swearing, and an entitled demanding attitude.

I do not treat my daughters that way, and it is unacceptable for them to treat me that way.

It’s not about increasing my own self-esteem, it’s about another important aspect of teaching values to my kids – in this case teaching them how it is and is not appropriate to treat people. I would assume we could all agree that this is an important part of parenting a child and guiding them as they develop into the adult they are to become.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have no advice, just sympathy. As a (now 35 YO) reformed horrible teenage girl, I can only say I'm sorry you have to go through this. It will pass (most likely) and she will return to the lovely girl you used to know, who hopefully will feel really bad for being so mean to her mom.
I think those are good penalties, too.
Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Respect and communication are skills that you teach your kid, just like you teach them study skills or how to do the laundry.

You don't just demand respect and punish your kid for cursing at you.

OP needs to teach his kid specific skills for talking to him respectfully, expressing her concerns and negotiating. Otherwise, she's learning how to communicate from his wife, and that sounds like a bad thing for her future workplace and relationships.