What do people mean when they say 2 kids is really hard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP w/3 under 4 here responding to the PP honestly seeking advice. It's not in any book. Just determine the limits which work for your family and be very, very rigid about these.
Some examples for our family include:
My children cannot cross a street or walk in a parking lot w/o holding hands. If someone doesn't come when I ask them to, I pick them up and leave immediately. If you make a fuss about what's for dinner, the plate is removed but you must sit until others are finished and then ask to be excused, every time. There is absolutely no snacking w/o sitting down (at home or in public). If you don't behave when we go somewhere, we don't go there again until you understand how we expect you to behave. Clothes are laid out the night before and that's what you're expected to wear in the morning. You respond when adults speak to you. You greet people, say please, thank you and good bye. You don't interrupt adults when they are speaking. You say excuse me and then wait to be addressed. You put all toys away before we leave the house and go to bed. You are put back to bed if you get out. You hug your brother or sister if you do something to hurt them. You protect one another from others.
The little ones follow what the 4 YO does so really you're working with one example to set. My 2 YO is much more headstrong and stubborn than my 4 YO but even she wants the positive attention for good behavior. With good behavior comes freedom and fun. Bad behavior is punished immediately with time outs, staying indoors, toys removed, etc. Kids are kids and they test limits constantly. However we feel they need to know they are not in charge. They are not equal members of the family in terms of decisions. This way we can love and enjoy them and still function in society, both in and out of our home.

Not to be dense, but how do you force a child to stay seated while you eat your own meal? I would have to tie her down or hold her myself.
And how do you force clean up before bed or leaving the house? My child is very happy to not clean up and stay home, or not clean up and delay bedtime. She is 3.4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2 is hard if you have 1 as miserable as people have described on this thread. Sounds like people are raising monsters, not children. We have 3 under 4 and yes, it's tiring and time consuming, but no one's running away, they eat the same meal or don't eat that night, they understand we're a family and we love one another so it's a lot of playing together and helping one another. It's all perspective folks. Expect them to control your lives and they will. Keep control of your lives and kids are a wonderful compliment to it.

This. Another person with 3 under 4 here. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I agree. It is about parenting philosophy and the time you spend teaching your kids how to act. it seesm many of these parents that find it incredibly hard have a child centred parenting philosophy where they just run around after their child reacting to what they are doing, trying to give them what they want to keep them happy. That would be exhausting.

In our house.
..
Bedtime means bedtime
Stay with memmy means stay with mommy
Don't touch that means don't touch that
I said no means I said no
You need to wait a minute means you need to wait a minute
This is what we are having for dinner means this is what we are having for dinner

It is so much easier. The kids are happy because they have structure and know the expectations and we get to enjoy our time with them because we aren't constantly putting out fires, dealing with power struggles and chasing kids around. I have four in 5 years. One is the most stubborn child you have ever met, another is ADHD and easily distracted and impulsive yet even my two difficult kids have learned how to behave in a respectful and appropriate way. I have never understood the whole child-centred approach, I see it everywhere with parents chasing kids around, calling plaintively to the child to please listen to mommy while the child ignores them and does as they please and mommy has no respect or authority beyond running herself ragged, being owned by her child. They then end up having to deal with tears and screaming and dragging the child away. It is so much more work and so much harder then spending the time early on to teach your kids how to behave and to respect their parents.

YOu're so freaking funny.

At home bed time means DC will stay in bed but will sing for hours before falling asleep.
Stay with mommy means stay with mommy but scream your lungs out while staying with mommy.
Don't touch that means don't touch that but asking a million times why and when THAT can be touched.

Be glad you have a complacent, passive children. You'll struggle the day you have one that will question you or a kid that just doesn't listen.

[Anonymous]

My mom had eight children and no help, she is a great mom and never complained.

[Anonymous]

OP here, thanks so much for all the stories into your lives with more than 1! I'm sorry if my question offended those who think it should be obvious, but for me having a glimpse into the life of a bigger family is super helpful to understanding.

I have one and she's not a bad kid - spirited, and willful, but happy. But right now I absolutely luxuriate in my time away from parenting - sleeping in at the weekend when DH can take over, reading after she goes to bed, going for a spontaneous run at the weekend. And I KNOW how easy it is with one, that's why I'm afraid maybe two isn't for me? I can understand if you were of the mindset that two can't be hard because you're already a parent that two would shock the system. But I wonder if I prepare myself mentally for the shift, if the transition to two will be easier.

Anyway, just rambling. I'm fascinated by all your tales!

[Anonymous]

It is hard at first. But with two you do eventually get one to yourself again. Mine are 8 and 6 now and I have time to myself. The first two or three years were pretty hard though. Much easier when they were past napping and out of diapers. And just old enough to play by themselves for long stretches.

[Anonymous]

I had one child for 4.5 years. The issue is, you are rarely if ever off duty. As soon as you get one quietly set up, reading, doing art, watching a movie - the other one needs something. Additionally, the worst part is - they fight. NO SOONER do I pick up my elementary age child, we don't even get out of the parking lot, and the bickering begins. Now, the greatest joy of having more than one is when they laugh and giggle and play together. But the fighting.... It takes a toll. And the constant comparing, why does SHE get this but I only get that, why do you treat HER differently, et cetera.

When I have only one of the two of them- it doesn't matter which one - I am able to truly focus on her. It's so calm and enjoyable. When they are alone with me, they are both very pleasant children. But man do they know how to push each other's buttons.

[Anonymous]

Op, another way to think about all these experiences is:

Group A: #1 was easy
Group B:#1 was hard

The people who were struggling with #1 vs. Those who found raising #1 very easy

How these groups adjusted to adding a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is hard but people on this thread seem to be just concentrating on the bad parts and seeing everything as a horrible challenge. For us the the biggest life change was going from 0 to 1, boy were we unprepared for that. After that each addition was chaotic at the beginning mostly because of sleep deprivation and then we pretty quickly adjusted to the new flow. We have 4 (11, 8, 5 and 2) and love it.

Your kids are all 3 years apart. I think it's pretty clear that having kids 2 years apart is the big x-factor here.

I've got 2 under 3 right now. Yes, it's hard now and hard to see past the challenges I face right now. However, I know that it will get better soon (especially once my oldest is in preschool 5x/week) and I think that the close spacing will actually start to make things easier once they are both in elementary school. I might have challenges right now, but I still love it and wouldn't trade it for the world!

I agree with the PP with 4 kids. We have three, 2.5 yrs apart and they are now 13, 10, 7 and life is soooo much easier. Busier, and much more chaotic, more dramatic, but happier. Going from 0 - 1 was like being hit by a crying, colicky freight train. Having 3 under five was nuts. After that it wasn't too bad. Go for it. I think once you are out of diapers for a while, it is intimidating to return to the baby phase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks so much for all the stories into your lives with more than 1! I'm sorry if my question offended those who think it should be obvious, but for me having a glimpse into the life of a bigger family is super helpful to understanding.

I have one and she's not a bad kid - spirited, and willful, but happy. But right now I absolutely luxuriate in my time away from parenting - sleeping in at the weekend when DH can take over, reading after she goes to bed, going for a spontaneous run at the weekend. And I KNOW how easy it is with one, that's why I'm afraid maybe two isn't for me? I can understand if you were of the mindset that two can't be hard because you're already a parent that two would shock the system. But I wonder if I prepare myself mentally for the shift, if the transition to two will be easier.

Anyway, just rambling. I'm fascinated by all your tales!

OP, if your husband is a competent parent, then you can still have time away from parenting. We have a 5 year old and a 2 year old. We take turns sleeping in on the weekend. Our kids are in bed by 8:00 (8:30 at the latest) and we spend the rest of the evening reading, watching TV, etc. Tomorrow night I'm meeting some girlfriends for dinner after work. We get a sitter for a date night every weekend. And if you husband really can't take of 2 kids on his own for a few hours (as people on DCUM always complain), then yes, you will have problems.

Sure, you lost some spontaneity with 2 kids but that slowly comes back as the kids get older. They are not infants and toddlers forever.

[Anonymous]

I can sum it up as: with one, my parenting was artisanal. With two, it's assembly line. I miss the artisanal days sometimes, because I could take more delight in it and there were more breaks. But I love my second child so ridiculously much, and when they get along, it's a whole new level of sweetness -- it fills my heart to the brim! And I got used to having two, the same way I got used to having one.

[Anonymous]

I remember when I just had my first child that friends with more than one said that it was harder to go from 1 to 2 kids than have their first kid. And I couldn't get that as I figured once you've got parenting "down" wouldn't adding another kid be understandably a challenge but really "harder"? Well, yes, it sure has been for me. Honestly, I often miss the laid-back days of life with one child. And my kids fight so often that I'm rarely seeing the benefit to the both of them of having a sibling. Sorry to be such a downer but if you have a great life with one, I'd consider sticking with one as oftentimes it is better for that one to remain an only. Just my opinion, of course.

[Anonymous]

I think it depends on what other children live around you. I'm an only and there were no neighborhood children to play with so it was lonely. Also difficult as an adult dealing with aging parents alone. I can see though that two would have been harder on my parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember when I just had my first child that friends with more than one said that it was harder to go from 1 to 2 kids than have their first kid. And I couldn't get that as I figured once you've got parenting "down" wouldn't adding another kid be understandably a challenge but really "harder"? Well, yes, it sure has been for me. Honestly, I often miss the laid-back days of life with one child. And my kids fight so often that I'm rarely seeing the benefit to the both of them of having a sibling. Sorry to be such a downer but if you have a great life with one, I'd consider sticking with one as oftentimes it is better for that one to remain an only. Just my opinion, of course.

That was me and my sister growing up, but she's my "ride or die" chica today. Your kids might appreciate each other alot more when they're older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:2 is hard if you have 1 as miserable as people have described on this thread. Sounds like people are raising monsters, not children. We have 3 under 4 and yes, it's tiring and time consuming, but no one's running away, they eat the same meal or don't eat that night, they understand we're a family and we love one another so it's a lot of playing together and helping one another. It's all perspective folks. Expect them to control your lives and they will. Keep control of your lives and kids are a wonderful compliment to it.

This. Another person with 3 under 4 here. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I agree. It is about parenting philosophy and the time you spend teaching your kids how to act. it seesm many of these parents that find it incredibly hard have a child centred parenting philosophy where they just run around after their child reacting to what they are doing, trying to give them what they want to keep them happy. That would be exhausting.

In our house.
..
Bedtime means bedtime
Stay with memmy means stay with mommy
Don't touch that means don't touch that
I said no means I said no
You need to wait a minute means you need to wait a minute
This is what we are having for dinner means this is what we are having for dinner

It is so much easier. The kids are happy because they have structure and know the expectations and we get to enjoy our time with them because we aren't constantly putting out fires, dealing with power struggles and chasing kids around. I have four in 5 years. One is the most stubborn child you have ever met, another is ADHD and easily distracted and impulsive yet even my two difficult kids have learned how to behave in a respectful and appropriate way. I have never understood the whole child-centred approach, I see it everywhere with parents chasing kids around, calling plaintively to the child to please listen to mommy while the child ignores them and does as they please and mommy has no respect or authority beyond running herself ragged, being owned by her child. They then end up having to deal with tears and screaming and dragging the child away. It is so much more work and so much harder then spending the time early on to teach your kids how to behave and to respect their parents.

YOu're so freaking funny.

At home bed time means DC will stay in bed but will sing for hours before falling asleep.
Stay with mommy means stay with mommy but scream your lungs out while staying with mommy.
Don't touch that means don't touch that but asking a million times why and when THAT can be touched.

Be glad you have a complacent, passive children. You'll struggle the day you have one that will question you or a kid that just doesn't listen.

I don't have passive kids. I wouldn't tolerate that kind of disrespect or disobedience and my kids know it. You are a permissive parent who is okay with your kids singing for hours in bed, screaming for mom at the top of their lungs or touching things they have been asked not to. Kids can be taught not to do those things. If you don't teach your kids not to, of course they will do whatever the hell they feel like.

[Anonymous]

OP, I have to say I wonder about this, too-- my DH is from a country where two generations back people were having 8+ kids, and thanks to a hugely successful family planning campaign, nowadays all my in-laws talk about how HARD raising children is, and how two children is so trying they cannot believe I don't want someone to come help out. After I had #2 they asked when I planned to get my tubes tied!

I think certain things go along with limiting family size to one or two, and then become pervasive in the culture: the idea that children require more individualized attention, more parent-directed stimulation and activities, more family time; and also a certain letting go of very strict discipline that you really can't forgo if you are going to survive with a brood of kids. I think our high expectations of what we want to give our children vs. what we don't want to do when it comes to our children (and this varies, but gosh, do I feel like a lousy mother when I yell, and just consider the number of people who post about not taking a shower or going poop once they have a newborn because they don't want to let the baby to cry for 5 minutes) and our fears, despite all evidence about nature vs. nurture, of the effects our parenting has on our children's personalities and development make parenting even ONE child hard, personally.

Just my opinion.