Restoring rigor in high schools

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

Crossover, The New Kid, maybe one more from what I remember. One is written in short poem style, the other is a graphic novel. I remember reading Treasure Island in 6th grade, and Call of the Wild in either 7 or 8th, and books of those levels. It’s like night and day to what kids are given now to read (or played on audio)

Oh so just updated curriculum. The new kid does sound inappropriate- you should talk to your PTA about that. Graphic novels have been in curriculum for decades, because it is a valid form of writing. It is concerning you don’t know what your child is reading but then rush to scream about the “downfall of public education.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In order to reform education system, standardized test may be reinstated, but it barely touch the root issue.

High schools should stop GPA inflation, should provide rigorous grading and rigorous courses. Stop giving 20% of the class 4.0 GPAs. It's just insane. Straight As should be reserved for the truely gifted.

ECs should be done out of true passion. No gaming the system. Colleges should not consider high school research in admissions so that only kids with true passion will pursue it, not fake it.

High school counselors should verify a student's ECs before they send out the app.

High schools should encourage kids taking courses of highest rigor available to their schools, be it stem or humanities. Colleges should put a lot more weight on course rigor in admissions.

Be honest.

Have integrity.

But your whole concept of “integrity” here is that it works against the goal of racial equity.

+1.

Just look at SAT scores. The wide disparity between Black SAT scores and those of whites proves the SAT test is still very racist, and should be abolished.

+1000

The wide disparity between Black GPA scores and those of whites proves the GPA is still very racist, and should be abolished.

The wide disparity between Black homework scores and those of whites proves the homework is still very racist, and should be abolished.

The wide disparity between Black Math scores and those of whites proves the Math is still very racist, and should be abolished.

There’s research that actually shows black majority schools tend to score worse for the same work, because teachers have poor expectations for their students. There’s a lot of bad teachers in k-12 majority black education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

You’re here to say students today are less capable and more entitled than twenty years ago. I’m here as a parent of two successful college student despite any number of crappy teachers. If you tell me you’ve been teaching for decades just so you can berate your students, I’ll assume that’s a you problem. Sorry there are enough bad apples that you get lumped in unless proven otherwise. That’s the reality of an education degree.

+1, I’ve seen a lot of this bullying behavior and it’s so weird. I even had to put a teacher in line for saying other students in my son’s class are stupid- that’s the literal term used. There are many educators who seem obsessed with complaining that their kids aren’t perfect, which I respond- pick a new career; they never have been and never will be.

I started noticing this problem when my first graduated and his multi variable calculus teacher started complaining that standards were “collapsing.” I then asked him what math he did in high school: “pre calculus.” I agree that parents should take the responsibility of pushing their children to read more, but I’m tired of seeing people bicker about this invisible collapse of standards.

I do love all these parents essentially admitting their kids are completely stupid and not thinking critically that it is there responsibility to address that, not a teacher’s. Every parent wants harsh standards and the most difficult curriculum, until they realize their kid is at the bottom.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

Crossover, The New Kid, maybe one more from what I remember. One is written in short poem style, the other is a graphic novel. I remember reading Treasure Island in 6th grade, and Call of the Wild in either 7 or 8th, and books of those levels. It’s like night and day to what kids are given now to read (or played on audio)

Oh so just updated curriculum. The new kid does sound inappropriate- you should talk to your PTA about that. Graphic novels have been in curriculum for decades, because it is a valid form of writing. It is concerning you don’t know what your child is reading but then rush to scream about the “downfall of public education.”

Diarrhea is a valid form of poop but that doesn't mean it's optimal or preferred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

Crossover, The New Kid, maybe one more from what I remember. One is written in short poem style, the other is a graphic novel. I remember reading Treasure Island in 6th grade, and Call of the Wild in either 7 or 8th, and books of those levels. It’s like night and day to what kids are given now to read (or played on audio)

Oh so just updated curriculum. The new kid does sound inappropriate- you should talk to your PTA about that. Graphic novels have been in curriculum for decades, because it is a valid form of writing. It is concerning you don’t know what your child is reading but then rush to scream about the “downfall of public education.”

Diarrhea is a valid form of poop but that doesn't mean it's optimal or preferred.

Uneducated person is loud. No one is surprised. I was reading graphic novels for class in the 80s, and I went to Choate.

We get it. You hate your kids. Just stop trying to force that opinion on all of the rest of us, who have successful or-hell-normal kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

This! I just dont see this “dumbing down of education”. I know I am in a bubble, but in my bubble, kids aren’t walking out with all A’s if they are not academically gifted. Kids who take 12+ APs and have A’s only on their transcript are quite rare at our well rated public school. I mean nobody is taking physics c and finding it easy. I think you could look at rigor and grades from a high performing school and have a pretty good idea of where the student stands. And my kids in STEM classes are learning far far more than I did back in the day. One example - I took Calc AB in high school senior year. My kid finished calc BC junior year (like many of his peers). I ended up eventually getting a math PhD (from a very selective school). And I will tell you my kids know more coming out high school in math than I did.

That may be, but they can't read or write.

DP.

I’m a high school English teacher. I was looking at some old files recently and was shocked at what my 9th grade class was achieving in 2005. My 12th graders couldn’t complete the same assignment now.

I can’t place blame in just one basket. The curriculum has been watered down. Students are focused on their phones more than the world around them. Teacher workloads have skyrocketed, meaning less individualized attention and less feedback. Class size has increased. Student behavior is far worse, leading to more distractions in the classroom. Teacher retention is a problem, as is teacher absenteeism because of burnout. Online gradebooks mean grades are disputed as soon as they go in, and teachers must regularly defend grades to parents/students looking for more points. Ultimately, the emphasis is no longer on learning.

Getting rid of sped and head cases from gen ed is the first thing they need to do. Imagine a classroom where a teacher doesn't have to triage the dumb kids and ignore everyone else for 180 days.

This. Also, grading classwork and homework and not allowing retakes.

And getting rid of chrombooks and EdTech in the classroom. They should only be used to type papers and research. That is it. Textbooks and paper/pencil work need a comeback. Not only does all the EdTech seriously hinder learning, but it blocks out parents from having a clue about what is going on. assignments are all done and submitted online now. As a parent, I cannot even see what my child did, what they got wrong, what material will be on a test. Nothing is ever physically turned on or handed back to the student. There are no books to study from. If I had a child that needed help, I would honestly have no clue what to do to help them. Kids and their parents need tangle assignments, assessments, and learning tools. Teachers won’t even hand back tests anymore. It’s very frustrating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

Crossover, The New Kid, maybe one more from what I remember. One is written in short poem style, the other is a graphic novel. I remember reading Treasure Island in 6th grade, and Call of the Wild in either 7 or 8th, and books of those levels. It’s like night and day to what kids are given now to read (or played on audio)

Oh so just updated curriculum. The new kid does sound inappropriate- you should talk to your PTA about that. Graphic novels have been in curriculum for decades, because it is a valid form of writing. It is concerning you don’t know what your child is reading but then rush to scream about the “downfall of public education.”

If by updated, you mean inferior, ok

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

Crossover, The New Kid, maybe one more from what I remember. One is written in short poem style, the other is a graphic novel. I remember reading Treasure Island in 6th grade, and Call of the Wild in either 7 or 8th, and books of those levels. It’s like night and day to what kids are given now to read (or played on audio)

Oh so just updated curriculum. The new kid does sound inappropriate- you should talk to your PTA about that. Graphic novels have been in curriculum for decades, because it is a valid form of writing. It is concerning you don’t know what your child is reading but then rush to scream about the “downfall of public education.”

If by updated, you mean inferior, ok

Call of the wild isn’t exactly the height of prose you think it is

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

Crossover, The New Kid, maybe one more from what I remember. One is written in short poem style, the other is a graphic novel. I remember reading Treasure Island in 6th grade, and Call of the Wild in either 7 or 8th, and books of those levels. It’s like night and day to what kids are given now to read (or played on audio)

Oh so just updated curriculum. The new kid does sound inappropriate- you should talk to your PTA about that. Graphic novels have been in curriculum for decades, because it is a valid form of writing. It is concerning you don’t know what your child is reading but then rush to scream about the “downfall of public education.”

If by updated, you mean inferior, ok

Call of the wild isn’t exactly the height of prose you think it is

Definitely middle school level appropriate and far superior to graphic novels and basketball books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

Crossover, The New Kid, maybe one more from what I remember. One is written in short poem style, the other is a graphic novel. I remember reading Treasure Island in 6th grade, and Call of the Wild in either 7 or 8th, and books of those levels. It’s like night and day to what kids are given now to read (or played on audio)

Oh so just updated curriculum. The new kid does sound inappropriate- you should talk to your PTA about that. Graphic novels have been in curriculum for decades, because it is a valid form of writing. It is concerning you don’t know what your child is reading but then rush to scream about the “downfall of public education.”

If by updated, you mean inferior, ok

Call of the wild isn’t exactly the height of prose you think it is

Definitely middle school level appropriate and far superior to graphic novels and basketball books

What is wrong with basketball books?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read these threads and I’m perplexed. My kids are in FCPS. APP/Honors/IB classes. They have homework. They read full novels. Lots of analysis exercises of said novels. Tests include short answers to full essays (with pencil/pen and paper). Classes require studying. They both already seem stressed out with school work. Are your kids all geniuses who can ace tests and papers without any effort? Where are these schools with teachers who just hand out As like candy in higher level classes?

Question: Did they read these full novels as an entire class, partly read during class, with discussions about the themes in class, as well as in-class writing assignments? If not, and you are able to use the word "choice" at any time when answering the questions I posed, then there's something called AI that many kids are using to do their work. I've even heard, although I can't prove it, that some teachers are giving even more busy work because kids are finishing their work a little too quickly. And APS is basically spedU to answer your last question.

Yup to all of your questions. They do discuss novels in class. Again, in history and English-many of the assessments involve hand writing essays during class. My kid initially struggled in 9th grade with it not bc she was used to AI, but because she had to learn how to put her thoughts on paper in a coherent and timely manner. This year, in English and US gov (Honors), one kid has had Socratic type discussions during class—kid needs to know the material and can’t just “wing it” during class. This is a FCPS IB school. Listen, I have no doubt that for many kids, the standards have gone way down. But to say that any kid can get an A in any higher level course is BS.

[Anonymous]

My kid is taking AP Seminar this year and it's his first AP class. He's always been in H.English. Except he cannot write a cohesive essay. Not only that, but he doesn't even know the questions to ask himself in order to write the essay.

He had a big assignment due this week. He wasn't able to do it. I ended up creating templates for him to complete. We needed to do template A which fed to template B which fed to the actual assignment. Of course, this took much longer than the time allotted.

He worked hard and more importantly, I taught him some new skills that he can use in the future. We both wish that he had one more day so he could do a review of his draft, make edits, and turn in a more finished product. But a deadline is a deadline.

I was surprised that he really couldn't even get started on the assignment without me. Whatever grade he gets is fine. In this case, the grade is irrelevant. He needs to learn these skills. I would have thought that the critical thinking and analytical skills would have been taught in earlier grades. The scaffolding that I created for him seemed more like something I would have done in middle school back in the last century.

My sons experience mirrors what I see in my classes at UMD. My students understand the math concepts I teach but they cannot covey the information they learn in a written document. They cannot create a thesis statement, provide supporting information, do an analysis, and then summarize the information.

Other than doing it myself or getting a tutor for my son, I don't know what to do. This is a skill that requires practice and refinement over years. It's not being taught in his public schools (MS/HS). I understand why---it requires a lot of time and effort for a teacher to grade an essay and provide meaningful feedback. With 25+ kids in a class and multiple classes, that seems overwhelming for a teacher.

[Anonymous]

If they make high school harder then less people will be high school graduates. Something to think about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is taking AP Seminar this year and it's his first AP class. He's always been in H.English. Except he cannot write a cohesive essay. Not only that, but he doesn't even know the questions to ask himself in order to write the essay.

He had a big assignment due this week. He wasn't able to do it. I ended up creating templates for him to complete. We needed to do template A which fed to template B which fed to the actual assignment. Of course, this took much longer than the time allotted.

He worked hard and more importantly, I taught him some new skills that he can use in the future. We both wish that he had one more day so he could do a review of his draft, make edits, and turn in a more finished product. But a deadline is a deadline.

I was surprised that he really couldn't even get started on the assignment without me. Whatever grade he gets is fine. In this case, the grade is irrelevant. He needs to learn these skills. I would have thought that the critical thinking and analytical skills would have been taught in earlier grades. The scaffolding that I created for him seemed more like something I would have done in middle school back in the last century.

My sons experience mirrors what I see in my classes at UMD. My students understand the math concepts I teach but they cannot covey the information they learn in a written document. They cannot create a thesis statement, provide supporting information, do an analysis, and then summarize the information.

Other than doing it myself or getting a tutor for my son, I don't know what to do. This is a skill that requires practice and refinement over years. It's not being taught in his public schools (MS/HS). I understand why---it requires a lot of time and effort for a teacher to grade an essay and provide meaningful feedback. With 25+ kids in a class and multiple classes, that seems overwhelming for a teacher.

What is AP seminar? Is that an actual class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

You’re here to say students today are less capable and more entitled than twenty years ago. I’m here as a parent of two successful college student despite any number of crappy teachers. If you tell me you’ve been teaching for decades just so you can berate your students, I’ll assume that’s a you problem. Sorry there are enough bad apples that you get lumped in unless proven otherwise. That’s the reality of an education degree.

+1, I’ve seen a lot of this bullying behavior and it’s so weird. I even had to put a teacher in line for saying other students in my son’s class are stupid- that’s the literal term used. There are many educators who seem obsessed with complaining that their kids aren’t perfect, which I respond- pick a new career; they never have been and never will be.

I started noticing this problem when my first graduated and his multi variable calculus teacher started complaining that standards were “collapsing.” I then asked him what math he did in high school: “pre calculus.” I agree that parents should take the responsibility of pushing their children to read more, but I’m tired of seeing people bicker about this invisible collapse of standards.

I do love all these parents essentially admitting their kids are completely stupid and not thinking critically that it is there responsibility to address that, not a teacher’s. Every parent wants harsh standards and the most difficult curriculum, until they realize their kid is at the bottom.

+1