Restoring rigor in high schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of obvious declining rigor, I pulled my kid from public school and put her into a private school even though our friends warned me that it would be better to stay in our public high school for the purposes of college admissions. (Easier A's in the public school, plenty of our public kids get into top schools, private school gives colleges an impression of privilege, etc.) At a certain point we just couldn't stand hearing about what was going on in the classroom anymore. All the kids knew how to jailbreak their devices and quickly did their work and were spending the test of the day playing games during classroom activity time. The teachers had no autonomy and were overworked to the point they could not give meaningful feedback.

Moving to private school was 100% the right decision from a learning standpoint. In the first year, she had so many holes to fill, especially in essay writing skills and foreign language grammar. It has not always been fun, but she says she has learned an impressive amount and is glad to be prepared for a rigorous college. Because of higher standards and tougher grading, her writing and presentation skills have taken off. Her math and science exams are all harder problem sets with no multiple choice component. The school only lets kids into honors or advanced placement classes if they have demonstrated that they are advanced, whereas the public school used to encourage AP enrollment regardless of preparedness simply so they could boast about their AP enrollment numbers. This means the private school teacher can actually cover advanced concepts.

It cost us a lot of money to do this and we know not everyone can afford private school. It is a real shame because I know a rigorous public education is possible. My husband and I both had a great public school education. What the heck happened?

Woke liberal politicians only care about getting reelected so they only care about pandering to a "special" group" that literally cannot fail thus rigorous standards and strict grading will never happen in public school system.

Look what happened to TJ.

Ain't that the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of obvious declining rigor, I pulled my kid from public school and put her into a private school even though our friends warned me that it would be better to stay in our public high school for the purposes of college admissions. (Easier A's in the public school, plenty of our public kids get into top schools, private school gives colleges an impression of privilege, etc.) At a certain point we just couldn't stand hearing about what was going on in the classroom anymore. All the kids knew how to jailbreak their devices and quickly did their work and were spending the test of the day playing games during classroom activity time. The teachers had no autonomy and were overworked to the point they could not give meaningful feedback.

Moving to private school was 100% the right decision from a learning standpoint. In the first year, she had so many holes to fill, especially in essay writing skills and foreign language grammar. It has not always been fun, but she says she has learned an impressive amount and is glad to be prepared for a rigorous college. Because of higher standards and tougher grading, her writing and presentation skills have taken off. Her math and science exams are all harder problem sets with no multiple choice component. The school only lets kids into honors or advanced placement classes if they have demonstrated that they are advanced, whereas the public school used to encourage AP enrollment regardless of preparedness simply so they could boast about their AP enrollment numbers. This means the private school teacher can actually cover advanced concepts.

It cost us a lot of money to do this and we know not everyone can afford private school. It is a real shame because I know a rigorous public education is possible. My husband and I both had a great public school education. What the heck happened?

Woke liberal politicians only care about getting reelected so they only care about pandering to a "special" group" that literally cannot fail thus rigorous standards and strict grading will never happen in public school system.

Look what happened to TJ.

You're talking to a woke liberal, so this line of argument really isn't going to work with me. Yes, policymakers, including liberal ones, clearly need to do things differently and both left and right leaning parents need to come together push for higher standards and a return to rigor. But we're not going to get to higher standards without plenty of taxes and investment of money on teachers and schools. We also don't need to embrace religion (keep it out of the schools please) or intolerance for minorities in the schools.

Why does it require higher taxes to simply raise standards and only give A's for legitimate A work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of obvious declining rigor, I pulled my kid from public school and put her into a private school even though our friends warned me that it would be better to stay in our public high school for the purposes of college admissions. (Easier A's in the public school, plenty of our public kids get into top schools, private school gives colleges an impression of privilege, etc.) At a certain point we just couldn't stand hearing about what was going on in the classroom anymore. All the kids knew how to jailbreak their devices and quickly did their work and were spending the test of the day playing games during classroom activity time. The teachers had no autonomy and were overworked to the point they could not give meaningful feedback.

Moving to private school was 100% the right decision from a learning standpoint. In the first year, she had so many holes to fill, especially in essay writing skills and foreign language grammar. It has not always been fun, but she says she has learned an impressive amount and is glad to be prepared for a rigorous college. Because of higher standards and tougher grading, her writing and presentation skills have taken off. Her math and science exams are all harder problem sets with no multiple choice component. The school only lets kids into honors or advanced placement classes if they have demonstrated that they are advanced, whereas the public school used to encourage AP enrollment regardless of preparedness simply so they could boast about their AP enrollment numbers. This means the private school teacher can actually cover advanced concepts.

It cost us a lot of money to do this and we know not everyone can afford private school. It is a real shame because I know a rigorous public education is possible. My husband and I both had a great public school education. What the heck happened?

Woke liberal politicians only care about getting reelected so they only care about pandering to a "special" group" that literally cannot fail thus rigorous standards and strict grading will never happen in public school system.

Look what happened to TJ.

You're talking to a woke liberal, so this line of argument really isn't going to work with me. Yes, policymakers, including liberal ones, clearly need to do things differently and both left and right leaning parents need to come together push for higher standards and a return to rigor. But we're not going to get to higher standards without plenty of taxes and investment of money on teachers and schools. We also don't need to embrace religion (keep it out of the schools please) or intolerance for minorities in the schools.

Why does it require higher taxes to simply raise standards and only give A's for legitimate A work?

It doesn’t. But we do have to address the sped/behavioral issue. And the people crying foul on “equity” if we grade homework or don’t allow retakes.

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile, our politicians want to eliminate gifted class programs and specialized high schools. If Mamdani gets elected, this might just happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of obvious declining rigor, I pulled my kid from public school and put her into a private school even though our friends warned me that it would be better to stay in our public high school for the purposes of college admissions. (Easier A's in the public school, plenty of our public kids get into top schools, private school gives colleges an impression of privilege, etc.) At a certain point we just couldn't stand hearing about what was going on in the classroom anymore. All the kids knew how to jailbreak their devices and quickly did their work and were spending the test of the day playing games during classroom activity time. The teachers had no autonomy and were overworked to the point they could not give meaningful feedback.

Moving to private school was 100% the right decision from a learning standpoint. In the first year, she had so many holes to fill, especially in essay writing skills and foreign language grammar. It has not always been fun, but she says she has learned an impressive amount and is glad to be prepared for a rigorous college. Because of higher standards and tougher grading, her writing and presentation skills have taken off. Her math and science exams are all harder problem sets with no multiple choice component. The school only lets kids into honors or advanced placement classes if they have demonstrated that they are advanced, whereas the public school used to encourage AP enrollment regardless of preparedness simply so they could boast about their AP enrollment numbers. This means the private school teacher can actually cover advanced concepts.

It cost us a lot of money to do this and we know not everyone can afford private school. It is a real shame because I know a rigorous public education is possible. My husband and I both had a great public school education. What the heck happened?

Woke liberal politicians only care about getting reelected so they only care about pandering to a "special" group" that literally cannot fail thus rigorous standards and strict grading will never happen in public school system.

Look what happened to TJ.

You're talking to a woke liberal, so this line of argument really isn't going to work with me. Yes, policymakers, including liberal ones, clearly need to do things differently and both left and right leaning parents need to come together push for higher standards and a return to rigor. But we're not going to get to higher standards without plenty of taxes and investment of money on teachers and schools. We also don't need to embrace religion (keep it out of the schools please) or intolerance for minorities in the schools.

Why does it require higher taxes to simply raise standards and only give A's for legitimate A work?

Teachers need to have smaller class sizes so they can give meangingful feedback. And we need higher salaries and better working conditions to attract quality teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of obvious declining rigor, I pulled my kid from public school and put her into a private school even though our friends warned me that it would be better to stay in our public high school for the purposes of college admissions. (Easier A's in the public school, plenty of our public kids get into top schools, private school gives colleges an impression of privilege, etc.) At a certain point we just couldn't stand hearing about what was going on in the classroom anymore. All the kids knew how to jailbreak their devices and quickly did their work and were spending the test of the day playing games during classroom activity time. The teachers had no autonomy and were overworked to the point they could not give meaningful feedback.

Moving to private school was 100% the right decision from a learning standpoint. In the first year, she had so many holes to fill, especially in essay writing skills and foreign language grammar. It has not always been fun, but she says she has learned an impressive amount and is glad to be prepared for a rigorous college. Because of higher standards and tougher grading, her writing and presentation skills have taken off. Her math and science exams are all harder problem sets with no multiple choice component. The school only lets kids into honors or advanced placement classes if they have demonstrated that they are advanced, whereas the public school used to encourage AP enrollment regardless of preparedness simply so they could boast about their AP enrollment numbers. This means the private school teacher can actually cover advanced concepts.

It cost us a lot of money to do this and we know not everyone can afford private school. It is a real shame because I know a rigorous public education is possible. My husband and I both had a great public school education. What the heck happened?

Woke liberal politicians only care about getting reelected so they only care about pandering to a "special" group" that literally cannot fail thus rigorous standards and strict grading will never happen in public school system.

Look what happened to TJ.

You're talking to a woke liberal, so this line of argument really isn't going to work with me. Yes, policymakers, including liberal ones, clearly need to do things differently and both left and right leaning parents need to come together push for higher standards and a return to rigor. But we're not going to get to higher standards without plenty of taxes and investment of money on teachers and schools. We also don't need to embrace religion (keep it out of the schools please) or intolerance for minorities in the schools.

Why does it require higher taxes to simply raise standards and only give A's for legitimate A work?

It doesn’t. But we do have to address the sped/behavioral issue. And the people crying foul on “equity” if we grade homework or don’t allow retakes.

So your free solution is what? Kick the special ed kids out of school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids at the top are being pushed too hard with the AP arms race and the expectation that everyone has to have. 1550+ SAT to get into a top school. The kids who are not at the very top are often ignored or allowed to fall through the cracks. The kids who need the most help also get a lot of attention. We have a two-tiered system that caters to the very top and the ones struggling the most and sort of neglects a lot of people in the middle.

Are we talking public school? People at the top are absolutely not a focal point. They're being ignored to the point they’re allowing kids that are not as smart to think they're part of the "smart" group by osmosis and lowering the ceiling. This is what's bringing down public schools. It's a bizarro world where everyone has to be mediocre so that average and below average kids can be told they’re smart.

Our kids are bored out of their mind in school and they've always taken the hardest classes (enriched, honors, AP, DE), many with mediocre teachers and struggling classmates who shouldn't be there. If kids can't keep up with the pathetic curriculum in the internet age, maybe it's time for less finger pointing and more self-reflection.

I think too many people on this forum were not top students when they were kids nor did they associate with them. They don't know what it means. Somewhere along the line, they became parents and they now equivocate good grades or hrs studying with thinking their kids are really smart. Because that's how it used to be. Nowadays, the grades are inflated and the work is not as rigorous so studying shouldn't take that much time. A top student shouldn't struggle in high school level classes, and that includes the watered down AP classes

Maybe it’s time for you to be a good parent and put them in better schools. I was a top student at a known boarding school and so was DH. We both have kids who are doing much more than us and are experiencing rigorous schooling.

Sometimes, you, the parents, are the problem.

DP here. We can’t afford boarding school or even non-religious private school. It’s not about being a “better” parent. My kids have straight A’s in rigorous classes. So far the oldest has 4’s and 5’s on her AP tests. But each year I’d say they have 1-2 very good teachers, 1-2 serviceable teachers and 1-2 teachers where you wonder how in the h&ll this person is allowed to teach anyone anything. Waiting for the class schedule in August feels like Russian roulette.

You’re just describing public education…

DP. But it didn’t used to be like this. I was a public school kid. We had excellent teachers and they actually taught. I feel like teachers have lost both the ability to actually teach and the breadth of subject knowledge they used to have. My world history teacher in high school would lecture the whole class and get into character when talking about Alexander the Great and different major figures. He was so animated and knowledgeable- never did slides or read from notes (so you actually had to take your own). Same with my APUSH class, different teacher, equally great. My teens’ experiences have been nothing like that- even in their AP classes

Teachers are often instructed NOT to lecture now. The way many teachers are evaluated would actually mark a teacher down for being the “sage on the stage.” We are now supposed to be the “guide on the side.”

I grew up in your era. My teachers lectured and I diligently took notes. I was engaged because it was clear they knew the content and they made it clear to me.

But now, teachers are given scripted lessons often written by companies far removed from the classroom. Admin observes to make sure students are actively engaged, which is often defined as participation in a group activity. That’s why you get gallery walks, cooperative projects, etc. If you “merely” lecture, you’re marked down.

We would benefit a lot from letting teachers teach again.

Lecture is not that useful of a learning tactic. It’s great in a collegiate sett No where you’re expected to spend hours outside of class learning.

Where do you think students learn how to follow a lecture? If it’s a great method for a collegiate setting, as you say, shouldn’t we be preparing them?

Endless gallery walks, charts, cooperative learning activities… they have their place. But let’s not pretend that they are the only signpost of a good lesson. I’ve seen plenty of group work assignments that have no clear objective, no clear outcome, no real value. And these assignments come directly from the county curriculum.

No? College is different from high school with different goals than high school. You send much more time in class in high school, and the way you access your instructor is completely different. The purpose of a college degree is to push you to the edge, so you have to learn, while high school is still building the foundation for all your future work. If we treated high school like college, our test scores would only drop further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids at the top are being pushed too hard with the AP arms race and the expectation that everyone has to have. 1550+ SAT to get into a top school. The kids who are not at the very top are often ignored or allowed to fall through the cracks. The kids who need the most help also get a lot of attention. We have a two-tiered system that caters to the very top and the ones struggling the most and sort of neglects a lot of people in the middle.

Are we talking public school? People at the top are absolutely not a focal point. They're being ignored to the point they’re allowing kids that are not as smart to think they're part of the "smart" group by osmosis and lowering the ceiling. This is what's bringing down public schools. It's a bizarro world where everyone has to be mediocre so that average and below average kids can be told they’re smart.

Our kids are bored out of their mind in school and they've always taken the hardest classes (enriched, honors, AP, DE), many with mediocre teachers and struggling classmates who shouldn't be there. If kids can't keep up with the pathetic curriculum in the internet age, maybe it's time for less finger pointing and more self-reflection.

I think too many people on this forum were not top students when they were kids nor did they associate with them. They don't know what it means. Somewhere along the line, they became parents and they now equivocate good grades or hrs studying with thinking their kids are really smart. Because that's how it used to be. Nowadays, the grades are inflated and the work is not as rigorous so studying shouldn't take that much time. A top student shouldn't struggle in high school level classes, and that includes the watered down AP classes

Maybe it’s time for you to be a good parent and put them in better schools. I was a top student at a known boarding school and so was DH. We both have kids who are doing much more than us and are experiencing rigorous schooling.

Sometimes, you, the parents, are the problem.

DP here. We can’t afford boarding school or even non-religious private school. It’s not about being a “better” parent. My kids have straight A’s in rigorous classes. So far the oldest has 4’s and 5’s on her AP tests. But each year I’d say they have 1-2 very good teachers, 1-2 serviceable teachers and 1-2 teachers where you wonder how in the h&ll this person is allowed to teach anyone anything. Waiting for the class schedule in August feels like Russian roulette.

You’re just describing public education…

DP. But it didn’t used to be like this. I was a public school kid. We had excellent teachers and they actually taught. I feel like teachers have lost both the ability to actually teach and the breadth of subject knowledge they used to have. My world history teacher in high school would lecture the whole class and get into character when talking about Alexander the Great and different major figures. He was so animated and knowledgeable- never did slides or read from notes (so you actually had to take your own). Same with my APUSH class, different teacher, equally great. My teens’ experiences have been nothing like that- even in their AP classes

Teachers are often instructed NOT to lecture now. The way many teachers are evaluated would actually mark a teacher down for being the “sage on the stage.” We are now supposed to be the “guide on the side.”

I grew up in your era. My teachers lectured and I diligently took notes. I was engaged because it was clear they knew the content and they made it clear to me.

But now, teachers are given scripted lessons often written by companies far removed from the classroom. Admin observes to make sure students are actively engaged, which is often defined as participation in a group activity. That’s why you get gallery walks, cooperative projects, etc. If you “merely” lecture, you’re marked down.

We would benefit a lot from letting teachers teach again.

Lecture is not that useful of a learning tactic. It’s great in a collegiate sett No where you’re expected to spend hours outside of class learning.

Where do you think students learn how to follow a lecture? If it’s a great method for a collegiate setting, as you say, shouldn’t we be preparing them?

Endless gallery walks, charts, cooperative learning activities… they have their place. But let’s not pretend that they are the only signpost of a good lesson. I’ve seen plenty of group work assignments that have no clear objective, no clear outcome, no real value. And these assignments come directly from the county curriculum.

+1 Everyone in the group gets the same grade, regardless of their efforts and knowledge of the subject.

Why should we grade on effort?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

You’re here to say students today are less capable and more entitled than twenty years ago. I’m here as a parent of two successful college student despite any number of crappy teachers. If you tell me you’ve been teaching for decades just so you can berate your students, I’ll assume that’s a you problem. Sorry there are enough bad apples that you get lumped in unless proven otherwise. That’s the reality of an education degree.

+1, I’ve seen a lot of this bullying behavior and it’s so weird. I even had to put a teacher in line for saying other students in my son’s class are stupid- that’s the literal term used. There are many educators who seem obsessed with complaining that their kids aren’t perfect, which I respond- pick a new career; they never have been and never will be.

I started noticing this problem when my first graduated and his multi variable calculus teacher started complaining that standards were “collapsing.” I then asked him what math he did in high school: “pre calculus.” I agree that parents should take the responsibility of pushing their children to read more, but I’m tired of seeing people bicker about this invisible collapse of standards.

I do love all these parents essentially admitting their kids are completely stupid and not thinking critically that it is there responsibility to address that, not a teacher’s. Every parent wants harsh standards and the most difficult curriculum, until they realize their kid is at the bottom.

It's not reasonable to expect a parent to homeschool their kid in addition to working full time and dropping their kids to and from school and after school activities. It's also not reasonable to expect every kid kid to, after spending a full 8 hour shift at school, begin another full shift of actually learning via homeschooling.

If teachers don't want to or are unable to do their jobs to an appropriate standard, the very least they can do is inform parents that the As they're giving out are meaningless and not up to a college prep standard so well-meaning parents who think their children are doing well aren't blindsided when their kid flunks out of college.

It is entirely reasonable for you to teach your kids basic life skills, behavior control, and basic content. You sound like a lazy parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids at the top are being pushed too hard with the AP arms race and the expectation that everyone has to have. 1550+ SAT to get into a top school. The kids who are not at the very top are often ignored or allowed to fall through the cracks. The kids who need the most help also get a lot of attention. We have a two-tiered system that caters to the very top and the ones struggling the most and sort of neglects a lot of people in the middle.

Are we talking public school? People at the top are absolutely not a focal point. They're being ignored to the point they’re allowing kids that are not as smart to think they're part of the "smart" group by osmosis and lowering the ceiling. This is what's bringing down public schools. It's a bizarro world where everyone has to be mediocre so that average and below average kids can be told they’re smart.

Our kids are bored out of their mind in school and they've always taken the hardest classes (enriched, honors, AP, DE), many with mediocre teachers and struggling classmates who shouldn't be there. If kids can't keep up with the pathetic curriculum in the internet age, maybe it's time for less finger pointing and more self-reflection.

I think too many people on this forum were not top students when they were kids nor did they associate with them. They don't know what it means. Somewhere along the line, they became parents and they now equivocate good grades or hrs studying with thinking their kids are really smart. Because that's how it used to be. Nowadays, the grades are inflated and the work is not as rigorous so studying shouldn't take that much time. A top student shouldn't struggle in high school level classes, and that includes the watered down AP classes

Maybe it’s time for you to be a good parent and put them in better schools. I was a top student at a known boarding school and so was DH. We both have kids who are doing much more than us and are experiencing rigorous schooling.

Sometimes, you, the parents, are the problem.

DP here. We can’t afford boarding school or even non-religious private school. It’s not about being a “better” parent. My kids have straight A’s in rigorous classes. So far the oldest has 4’s and 5’s on her AP tests. But each year I’d say they have 1-2 very good teachers, 1-2 serviceable teachers and 1-2 teachers where you wonder how in the h&ll this person is allowed to teach anyone anything. Waiting for the class schedule in August feels like Russian roulette.

You’re just describing public education…

DP. But it didn’t used to be like this. I was a public school kid. We had excellent teachers and they actually taught. I feel like teachers have lost both the ability to actually teach and the breadth of subject knowledge they used to have. My world history teacher in high school would lecture the whole class and get into character when talking about Alexander the Great and different major figures. He was so animated and knowledgeable- never did slides or read from notes (so you actually had to take your own). Same with my APUSH class, different teacher, equally great. My teens’ experiences have been nothing like that- even in their AP classes

Teachers are often instructed NOT to lecture now. The way many teachers are evaluated would actually mark a teacher down for being the “sage on the stage.” We are now supposed to be the “guide on the side.”

I grew up in your era. My teachers lectured and I diligently took notes. I was engaged because it was clear they knew the content and they made it clear to me.

But now, teachers are given scripted lessons often written by companies far removed from the classroom. Admin observes to make sure students are actively engaged, which is often defined as participation in a group activity. That’s why you get gallery walks, cooperative projects, etc. If you “merely” lecture, you’re marked down.

We would benefit a lot from letting teachers teach again.

Lecture is not that useful of a learning tactic. It’s great in a collegiate sett No where you’re expected to spend hours outside of class learning.

Where do you think students learn how to follow a lecture? If it’s a great method for a collegiate setting, as you say, shouldn’t we be preparing them?

Endless gallery walks, charts, cooperative learning activities… they have their place. But let’s not pretend that they are the only signpost of a good lesson. I’ve seen plenty of group work assignments that have no clear objective, no clear outcome, no real value. And these assignments come directly from the county curriculum.

No? College is different from high school with different goals than high school. You send much more time in class in high school, and the way you access your instructor is completely different. The purpose of a college degree is to push you to the edge, so you have to learn, while high school is still building the foundation for all your future work. If we treated high school like college, our test scores would only drop further.

So would you like high schools to prepare students for college or not?

K-8 builds foundation. By 9th, I’m expecting critical thinking, written expression, etc.

I don’t want my kid to wait until she’s taking Psych100 in a 250 person lecture hall to figure out how to take notes. I also want high school teaching her that, and not assigning her endless group projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In order to reform education system, standardized test may be reinstated, but it barely touch the root issue.

High schools should stop GPA inflation, should provide rigorous grading and rigorous courses. Stop giving 20% of the class 4.0 GPAs. It's just insane. Straight As should be reserved for the truely gifted.

ECs should be done out of true passion. No gaming the system. Colleges should not consider high school research in admissions so that only kids with true passion will pursue it, not fake it.

High school counselors should verify a student's ECs before they send out the app.

High schools should encourage kids taking courses of highest rigor available to their schools, be it stem or humanities. Colleges should put a lot more weight on course rigor in admissions.

Be honest.

Have integrity.

But your whole concept of “integrity” here is that it works against the goal of racial equity.

+1.

Just look at SAT scores. The wide disparity between Black SAT scores and those of whites proves the SAT test is still very racist, and should be abolished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because of obvious declining rigor, I pulled my kid from public school and put her into a private school even though our friends warned me that it would be better to stay in our public high school for the purposes of college admissions. (Easier A's in the public school, plenty of our public kids get into top schools, private school gives colleges an impression of privilege, etc.) At a certain point we just couldn't stand hearing about what was going on in the classroom anymore. All the kids knew how to jailbreak their devices and quickly did their work and were spending the test of the day playing games during classroom activity time. The teachers had no autonomy and were overworked to the point they could not give meaningful feedback.

Moving to private school was 100% the right decision from a learning standpoint. In the first year, she had so many holes to fill, especially in essay writing skills and foreign language grammar. It has not always been fun, but she says she has learned an impressive amount and is glad to be prepared for a rigorous college. Because of higher standards and tougher grading, her writing and presentation skills have taken off. Her math and science exams are all harder problem sets with no multiple choice component. The school only lets kids into honors or advanced placement classes if they have demonstrated that they are advanced, whereas the public school used to encourage AP enrollment regardless of preparedness simply so they could boast about their AP enrollment numbers. This means the private school teacher can actually cover advanced concepts.

It cost us a lot of money to do this and we know not everyone can afford private school. It is a real shame because I know a rigorous public education is possible. My husband and I both had a great public school education. What the heck happened?

Woke liberal politicians only care about getting reelected so they only care about pandering to a "special" group" that literally cannot fail thus rigorous standards and strict grading will never happen in public school system.

Look what happened to TJ.

You're talking to a woke liberal, so this line of argument really isn't going to work with me. Yes, policymakers, including liberal ones, clearly need to do things differently and both left and right leaning parents need to come together push for higher standards and a return to rigor. But we're not going to get to higher standards without plenty of taxes and investment of money on teachers and schools. We also don't need to embrace religion (keep it out of the schools please) or intolerance for minorities in the schools.

Why does it require higher taxes to simply raise standards and only give A's for legitimate A work?

It doesn’t. But we do have to address the sped/behavioral issue. And the people crying foul on “equity” if we grade homework or don’t allow retakes.

So your free solution is what? Kick the special ed kids out of school?

No “behavior” kids in gen ed. And if you don’t do your assigned work, you get a zero. And no promoting kids to the next grade who fail their classes or passing them just to get rid of them.