Restoring rigor in high schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids at the top are being pushed too hard with the AP arms race and the expectation that everyone has to have. 1550+ SAT to get into a top school. The kids who are not at the very top are often ignored or allowed to fall through the cracks. The kids who need the most help also get a lot of attention. We have a two-tiered system that caters to the very top and the ones struggling the most and sort of neglects a lot of people in the middle.

Are we talking public school? People at the top are absolutely not a focal point. They're being ignored to the point they’re allowing kids that are not as smart to think they're part of the "smart" group by osmosis and lowering the ceiling. This is what's bringing down public schools. It's a bizarro world where everyone has to be mediocre so that average and below average kids can be told they’re smart.

Our kids are bored out of their mind in school and they've always taken the hardest classes (enriched, honors, AP, DE), many with mediocre teachers and struggling classmates who shouldn't be there. If kids can't keep up with the pathetic curriculum in the internet age, maybe it's time for less finger pointing and more self-reflection.

I think too many people on this forum were not top students when they were kids nor did they associate with them. They don't know what it means. Somewhere along the line, they became parents and they now equivocate good grades or hrs studying with thinking their kids are really smart. Because that's how it used to be. Nowadays, the grades are inflated and the work is not as rigorous so studying shouldn't take that much time. A top student shouldn't struggle in high school level classes, and that includes the watered down AP classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

[Anonymous]

I read these threads and I’m perplexed. My kids are in FCPS. APP/Honors/IB classes. They have homework. They read full novels. Lots of analysis exercises of said novels. Tests include short answers to full essays (with pencil/pen and paper). Classes require studying. They both already seem stressed out with school work. Are your kids all geniuses who can ace tests and papers without any effort? Where are these schools with teachers who just hand out As like candy in higher level classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read these threads and I’m perplexed. My kids are in FCPS. APP/Honors/IB classes. They have homework. They read full novels. Lots of analysis exercises of said novels. Tests include short answers to full essays (with pencil/pen and paper). Classes require studying. They both already seem stressed out with school work. Are your kids all geniuses who can ace tests and papers without any effort? Where are these schools with teachers who just hand out As like candy in higher level classes?

Question: Did they read these full novels as an entire class, partly read during class, with discussions about the themes in class, as well as in-class writing assignments? If not, and you are able to use the word "choice" at any time when answering the questions I posed, then there's something called AI that many kids are using to do their work. I've even heard, although I can't prove it, that some teachers are giving even more busy work because kids are finishing their work a little too quickly. And APS is basically spedU to answer your last question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

They always have-they're kids and we aren't in war for christ's sake.
If you are seriously dealing with this issue, it sounds more like an indictment of your ability to teach.
I went to an extremely stressful competitive high school that is known for being one of the most rigorous in the country...but that was three decades ago; my children currently run laps around me, have many more responsibilities and things they have to do in order to get into college and are now learning content I didn't learn until my second year of college. They go to a pretty average public school. Maybe put yourself in the perspective of a kid today, who needs to compete at a high level in order to get into even a decent school, while in my time, Harvard was boasting an acceptance rate 4x its current.

You are suffering from recency bias.

I am so stunned when I hear these comments. Maybe these stories vary widely family to family?

My husband went to a decent public school in a relatively affluent area and I went to a prep school in the Northeast. My kids attend (or have attended) a public school system by reputation stronger than my husband's. We both worked so much harder than our college sophomore (who got accepted to multiple top 25s) or our high school junior (5 APs) or our middle schooler (straight As, never has a lick of homework). I am a humanities person and got farther in math during high school than my mathy kids. The block system results in kids doing so much less homework, it is outrageous. Our school system does not teach kids how to write in elementary or middle school and, by the time they get to AP classes, the teachers don't have time to teach the basics. The language standards are shockingly low. Maybe science classes are better now? All I know is that I was consistently studying for 2-4 hours ever single weeknight of high school, without fail, after varsity sports practice, plus for long hours on weekends. My kids occasionally do what I did daily and almost never study weekends. Even AP classes use largely multiple choice tests. Even AP English and History classes require very little writing.

For what it's worth: I am a college professor in a humanities discipline and not only have students' writing skills fallen in the last three decades, so has their ability to read long books.

As for acceptance rates... they don't indicate a higher standard or stronger students, only more applicants.

It honestly sounds like your kids don’t go to good schools and you aren’t using your superior education to uplift them which is disappointing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

More proof that people are here solely to make fun of children than have an honest discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids at the top are being pushed too hard with the AP arms race and the expectation that everyone has to have. 1550+ SAT to get into a top school. The kids who are not at the very top are often ignored or allowed to fall through the cracks. The kids who need the most help also get a lot of attention. We have a two-tiered system that caters to the very top and the ones struggling the most and sort of neglects a lot of people in the middle.

Are we talking public school? People at the top are absolutely not a focal point. They're being ignored to the point they’re allowing kids that are not as smart to think they're part of the "smart" group by osmosis and lowering the ceiling. This is what's bringing down public schools. It's a bizarro world where everyone has to be mediocre so that average and below average kids can be told they’re smart.

Our kids are bored out of their mind in school and they've always taken the hardest classes (enriched, honors, AP, DE), many with mediocre teachers and struggling classmates who shouldn't be there. If kids can't keep up with the pathetic curriculum in the internet age, maybe it's time for less finger pointing and more self-reflection.

I think too many people on this forum were not top students when they were kids nor did they associate with them. They don't know what it means. Somewhere along the line, they became parents and they now equivocate good grades or hrs studying with thinking their kids are really smart. Because that's how it used to be. Nowadays, the grades are inflated and the work is not as rigorous so studying shouldn't take that much time. A top student shouldn't struggle in high school level classes, and that includes the watered down AP classes

Maybe it’s time for you to be a good parent and put them in better schools. I was a top student at a known boarding school and so was DH. We both have kids who are doing much more than us and are experiencing rigorous schooling.

Sometimes, you, the parents, are the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

You’re here to say students today are less capable and more entitled than twenty years ago. I’m here as a parent of two successful college student despite any number of crappy teachers. If you tell me you’ve been teaching for decades just so you can berate your students, I’ll assume that’s a you problem. Sorry there are enough bad apples that you get lumped in unless proven otherwise. That’s the reality of an education degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

You’re here to say students today are less capable and more entitled than twenty years ago. I’m here as a parent of two successful college student despite any number of crappy teachers. If you tell me you’ve been teaching for decades just so you can berate your students, I’ll assume that’s a you problem. Sorry there are enough bad apples that you get lumped in unless proven otherwise. That’s the reality of an education degree.

+1, I’ve seen a lot of this bullying behavior and it’s so weird. I even had to put a teacher in line for saying other students in my son’s class are stupid- that’s the literal term used. There are many educators who seem obsessed with complaining that their kids aren’t perfect, which I respond- pick a new career; they never have been and never will be.

I started noticing this problem when my first graduated and his multi variable calculus teacher started complaining that standards were “collapsing.” I then asked him what math he did in high school: “pre calculus.” I agree that parents should take the responsibility of pushing their children to read more, but I’m tired of seeing people bicker about this invisible collapse of standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In order to reform education system, standardized test may be reinstated, but it barely touch the root issue.

High schools should stop GPA inflation, should provide rigorous grading and rigorous courses. Stop giving 20% of the class 4.0 GPAs. It's just insane. Straight As should be reserved for the truely gifted.

ECs should be done out of true passion. No gaming the system. Colleges should not consider high school research in admissions so that only kids with true passion will pursue it, not fake it.

High school counselors should verify a student's ECs before they send out the app.

High schools should encourage kids taking courses of highest rigor available to their schools, be it stem or humanities. Colleges should put a lot more weight on course rigor in admissions.

Be honest.

Have integrity.

But your whole concept of “integrity” here is that it works against the goal of racial equity.

+1.

Just look at SAT scores. The wide disparity between Black SAT scores and those of whites proves the SAT test is still very racist, and should be abolished.

+1000

The wide disparity between Black GPA scores and those of whites proves the GPA is still very racist, and should be abolished.

The wide disparity between Black homework scores and those of whites proves the homework is still very racist, and should be abolished.

The wide disparity between Black Math scores and those of whites proves the Math is still very racist, and should be abolished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

100% this. I was salutatorian and had all As when I graduated in the early 1990s. What my children are learning in school and the level of effort they have to put in runs circles around my education. And they are more stressed than I ever was.

Yes, this is a problem that started in the mid-80s and continues to this day. Graduated in the late 70s, had my kids late in life. Even with APs they didn’t do the level of work I had at a small school system. Calculus (MV) was the capstone math class for kids targeted for college and we did much more in our science classes. School offered robust vo-tech opportunities for students that wanted to pursue work in the trades.

Need to get back to instructional basics, demand and reward rigor and have multiple paths forward. Opportunity for all not equal outcomes for all.

You completely bulldozed their comment. Most kids today are working harder than when we were growing up.

DP. But working harder doesn’t mean they are learning more.

I teach AP classes. Yes, the students are always working hard; however, it takes much longer to for students to complete tasks than it used to.

Students today often lack resilience. When an assignment gets burdensome or challenging, they tend to shut down. I coax far more than I did 20 years ago.

I also receive 3-4 times the extension requests than I used to because there’s often an excuse why work can’t get done: I’m too busy, I have sports, I wasn’t in a good mood.

That honestly makes a lot of sense. If we are overburdening our students and they're constantly working, they will eventually perform worse and will not be able to turn things in. Have you considered that there is no proof that homework is actually beneficial to one's education? It makes sense In lower ages where we treat school as a way to form discipline, but there is no reason we have to work a high schooler to death to provide them a good education.

It isn’t just that we are overburdening our kids, they are also being preyed upon by digital content providers. It’s encouraging that they are beginning to stand up for themselves.

Agree, the PP is exhibiting bias. Seems far too many teachers stay in the profession out of a sadistic drive to mock kids. AP teacher just means you’ve churned through freshman level content on repeat for twenty years. The students have a mental hurdle to engage, your life is menial, so you lash out. Unfortunately, you are exactly like teachers of the past.

Never disappoint, DCUM.

Can you point out where I mocked children? What did I say comes across as sadistic?

We can have an honest discussion about what’s best for the students and how to sincerely, purposefully increase rigor OR we can lash out in unsubstantiated personal attacks. We can see which option you selected.

These damn entitled parents. Your kids can't read or write because of you, not the teacher. Stop shooting the messenger. How many books have your kids read by the time they got to high school? Starting from picture books in preschool, the answer should be thousands. No, this is not an exaggeration. By the time they are 14 years old, they will have lived over 5000 days. Get them off the iPads and smartphones--oh wait, it's too late...

Stop trashing a teacher who has been teaching for decades (meaning pre-grade inflation and watered down curriculum) and can literally testify, with proof from past lessons, how bad it's gotten. She probably still has her old grade books as well. Contrary to popular belief among entitled parents, high school teachers are there to teach critical reasoning and analysis not how to string words together to form complete sentences. You expecting college professors to do this?

DP, but teachers, or maybe admin are absolutely culpable for the downfall of public education. I have a child in public middle school “honors” English. It is an absolute disgrace. The (few) books they are assigned to read are elementary level, typically to do with some social justice BS and the teacher plays them on audio in class- they don’t even have to actually read them! Most kids just sit there on their chromebooks playing games while they “listen”

But to your point, parents have a strong influence and can overcome the terrible state that is now public school education with a ton of supplementing at home and strict screen time rules. However, it shouldn’t have to be like that. Kids are at school 7 hrs per day and bad silly accomplishing nothing meaningful

Send the reading list.

Crossover, The New Kid, maybe one more from what I remember. One is written in short poem style, the other is a graphic novel. I remember reading Treasure Island in 6th grade, and Call of the Wild in either 7 or 8th, and books of those levels. It’s like night and day to what kids are given now to read (or played on audio)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know where your kids go to school but my kids work much harder than I ever did. And they know much more than I ever did. There needs to be more chill and less stress

This! I just dont see this “dumbing down of education”. I know I am in a bubble, but in my bubble, kids aren’t walking out with all A’s if they are not academically gifted. Kids who take 12+ APs and have A’s only on their transcript are quite rare at our well rated public school. I mean nobody is taking physics c and finding it easy. I think you could look at rigor and grades from a high performing school and have a pretty good idea of where the student stands. And my kids in STEM classes are learning far far more than I did back in the day. One example - I took Calc AB in high school senior year. My kid finished calc BC junior year (like many of his peers). I ended up eventually getting a math PhD (from a very selective school). And I will tell you my kids know more coming out high school in math than I did.

That may be, but they can't read or write.

DP.

I’m a high school English teacher. I was looking at some old files recently and was shocked at what my 9th grade class was achieving in 2005. My 12th graders couldn’t complete the same assignment now.

I can’t place blame in just one basket. The curriculum has been watered down. Students are focused on their phones more than the world around them. Teacher workloads have skyrocketed, meaning less individualized attention and less feedback. Class size has increased. Student behavior is far worse, leading to more distractions in the classroom. Teacher retention is a problem, as is teacher absenteeism because of burnout. Online gradebooks mean grades are disputed as soon as they go in, and teachers must regularly defend grades to parents/students looking for more points. Ultimately, the emphasis is no longer on learning.

Getting rid of sped and head cases from gen ed is the first thing they need to do. Imagine a classroom where a teacher doesn't have to triage the dumb kids and ignore everyone else for 180 days.

This. Also, grading classwork and homework and not allowing retakes.