School choice vs. attendance zones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

Balanced? Ethnically diverse? Socio-economically diverse? Intellectually diverse? Students with low academic scored will bring down school success rates.

WSHS has a higher than average African American student population, one of the biggest AA student populations in fcps, and decent sized hispanic population, both of which score on par with the white and asian kids at the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb idea, OP.

You can look at Jefferson County, KY. When they instituted the type of system you want, following the court-ordered merger with Louisville schools, people left for privates and moved to Oldham County.

This isn’t about merging school systems. It’s about creating more choice within a school system. If a family isn’t admitted to the public school of their choice, they can go to private. Threatening to go private suggests wealthy families are currently hoarding certain public schools as if they’re private. In that case, go ahead and pay for private and leave the good publics for other families.

You are essentially asking for a merger of successful and less successful schools, the result of which will be to create uniformly mediocre schools.

And your analogy about hoarding schools as if they are private falls flat when the parents of the schools you covet cover most of the costs for all the public schools in the county.

You’ll find little if any support for what you’re proposing among county officials.

Paying taxes doesn’t make you entitled to a certain school. Try again

In Fairfax, it really should, absent a truly compelling need to change boundaries.

Sorry you have nothing better to do today.

But it doesn’t. Sorry the VA code isn’t on your side. Move to some tiny school district in New Jersey if you think that’s better.

Sounds like you’re the one who needs to move, because you aren’t going to get what you’re after here.

You can look at the “Opening of Schools” report and see how Reid touted FCPS having 7 of the top 10 high schools in the state. There’s no appetite for having 24 lousy ones.

Who’s to say school choice wouldn’t result in 10 of the top 10 schools in the state? I reject your premise.

Now you’re just entering sad attention whore territory.

I’m advocating for more kids to have opportunity. Try to refrain from insulting terms if you’re interested in a thoughtful discussion.

Volunteer to help with literacy and ESOL at your neighborhood low performing school.

Volunteer for PTA and help bring in after school STEM enrichment.

Get your neighborhood parents to volunteer.

Start a science Olympiad team at your school and pull in other educated parents to step up and run event teams.

All of these just require your time. Any poor or rich parent can do these things with a little bit of effort.

Stop trying to get other parents and other people's kids to do it for you. Step up and lead.

Great idea. So you agree all students in a system should have equal access to good schools?

I think you need to put your money where your mouth is and step up to volunteer at the low performing school you chose when you bought your house.

Anyone can do those things listed above. You don't need money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb idea, OP.

You can look at Jefferson County, KY. When they instituted the type of system you want, following the court-ordered merger with Louisville schools, people left for privates and moved to Oldham County.

This isn’t about merging school systems. It’s about creating more choice within a school system. If a family isn’t admitted to the public school of their choice, they can go to private. Threatening to go private suggests wealthy families are currently hoarding certain public schools as if they’re private. In that case, go ahead and pay for private and leave the good publics for other families.

You are essentially asking for a merger of successful and less successful schools, the result of which will be to create uniformly mediocre schools.

And your analogy about hoarding schools as if they are private falls flat when the parents of the schools you covet cover most of the costs for all the public schools in the county.

You’ll find little if any support for what you’re proposing among county officials.

Paying taxes doesn’t make you entitled to a certain school. Try again

In Fairfax, it really should, absent a truly compelling need to change boundaries.

Sorry you have nothing better to do today.

But it doesn’t. Sorry the VA code isn’t on your side. Move to some tiny school district in New Jersey if you think that’s better.

Sounds like you’re the one who needs to move, because you aren’t going to get what you’re after here.

You can look at the “Opening of Schools” report and see how Reid touted FCPS having 7 of the top 10 high schools in the state. There’s no appetite for having 24 lousy ones.

Who’s to say school choice wouldn’t result in 10 of the top 10 schools in the state? I reject your premise.

Now you’re just entering sad attention whore territory.

I’m advocating for more kids to have opportunity. Try to refrain from insulting terms if you’re interested in a thoughtful discussion.

Volunteer to help with literacy and ESOL at your neighborhood low performing school.

Volunteer for PTA and help bring in after school STEM enrichment.

Get your neighborhood parents to volunteer.

Start a science Olympiad team at your school and pull in other educated parents to step up and run event teams.

All of these just require your time. Any poor or rich parent can do these things with a little bit of effort.

Stop trying to get other parents and other people's kids to do it for you. Step up and lead.

Great idea. So you agree all students in a system should have equal access to good schools?

I think you need to put your money where your mouth is and step up to volunteer at the low performing school you chose when you bought your house.

Anyone can do those things listed above. You don't need money

+1 let’s do it together to make our community better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

Balanced? Ethnically diverse? Socio-economically diverse? Intellectually diverse? Students with low academic scored will bring down school success rates.

WSHS has a higher than average African American student population, one of the biggest AA student populations in fcps, and decent sized hispanic population, both of which score on par with the white and asian kids at the school.

Nice. Let good students at other schools apply to be a part of that and add value to a great school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. Take your immigration rhetoric elsewhere because that’s not the point.

Good students at bad schools should have the ability to apply to a different school for any reason. It shouldn’t depend on a specific program and it certainly shouldn’t depend on a home purchase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

OP is proposing to shut some people out of their neighborhood schools.

It's not going to happen.

Just look at some of the things the School Board focused on in amending Policy 8130. Eliminating attendance islands was a thing because somehow they thought students in the islands would feel less connected to the community. Eliminating split feeders was a thing because splitting up cohorts of kids was to be avoided where possible. Transportation lengths was a thing because they thought kids with longer commutes would feel less connected to the school community. Etc.

OP's proposal runs counter to all those goals. Instead, OP wants a lottery system so that kids have "equal access to good schools," except "wherever you go there you are." He wants to neutralize what makes the good schools good, so it's ultimately a self-defeating strategy.

It's DOA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. Take your immigration rhetoric elsewhere because that’s not the point.

Good students at bad schools should have the ability to apply to a different school for any reason. It shouldn’t depend on a specific program and it certainly shouldn’t depend on a home purchase.

So work around and live with the issue, but don't fix the underlying problem. Got it. Eventually the only good schools will be private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. Take your immigration rhetoric elsewhere because that’s not the point.

Good students at bad schools should have the ability to apply to a different school for any reason. It shouldn’t depend on a specific program and it certainly shouldn’t depend on a home purchase.

DP
What makes a FCPS school ”bad” in your view?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. Take your immigration rhetoric elsewhere because that’s not the point.

Good students at bad schools should have the ability to apply to a different school for any reason. It shouldn’t depend on a specific program and it certainly shouldn’t depend on a home purchase.

So work around and live with the issue, but don't fix the underlying problem. Got it. Eventually the only good schools will be private.

Hyperbole. Can you really not form an argument without a fallacy?

Whatever, go to private if you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. Take your immigration rhetoric elsewhere because that’s not the point.

Good students at bad schools should have the ability to apply to a different school for any reason. It shouldn’t depend on a specific program and it certainly shouldn’t depend on a home purchase.

DP
What makes a FCPS school ”bad” in your view?

See 16:54

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong. Take your immigration rhetoric elsewhere because that’s not the point.

Good students at bad schools should have the ability to apply to a different school for any reason. It shouldn’t depend on a specific program and it certainly shouldn’t depend on a home purchase.

So work around and live with the issue, but don't fix the underlying problem. Got it. Eventually the only good schools will be private.

Hyperbole. Can you really not form an argument without a fallacy?

Whatever, go to private if you want.

Said the person who can't dispute the facts. Troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

Curious about this statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.

Another straw man. A good student at Herndon or Annandale should have the chance to apply to a good school so that they have an equal chance to be successful.

Look. OP wants to enable people to avoid "bad" schools. Bad schools are primarily perceived as bad based on test scores and say, college placement. But in FCPS all schools are generally provided with solid educational resources.

So the performance basically comes down to the student body. A few schools have absorbed the vast majority of immigrant children. These children are typically poor and ESL. Many with limited education in their home country. FCPS school results reflect this challenge. To deny this is insanity.FCPS has made things worse by concentrating poverty and creating incentives for people to transfer.

So what the OP is proposing is already happening in practice (through transfers and selective home purchases), and it has caused further decline in those schools that have the large ESL / poor populations.

But it all started with importation of large numbers of poor immigrants. Just a fact.

Curious about this statement.

Boundary decisions that generally move wealthier neighborhoods to wealthier schools. Rarely the other way in the last 25 years.