School choice vs. attendance zones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

The school's overall score may go up [b]but those students would still struggle.[b]

Got a cite?

There is plenty of documentation out there showing that if kids are below grade level by the time they get to fourth grade, then they stay below grade level for their entire educational experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

Nor are all students at bad schools immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

The school's overall score may go up [b]but those students would still struggle.[b]

Got a cite?

There is plenty of documentation out there showing that if kids are below grade level by the time they get to fourth grade, then they stay below grade level for their entire educational experience.

Great, so you agree an intervention is needed. Where is your cite showing that those students don’t improve if given an opportunity to attend a better school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

A large cohort of involved parents who value education and have the resources to supplement if needed. Everyone tries to pretend there's some secret formula but this is what it comes down to.

This has been true for hundreds of years. Families with money, who are not fighting the poverty line while working multiple jobs will always be able to afford more. “More” equates to better homes, better education, a better American experience.

How about the kids of parents that work multiple jobs but live below the poverty line right here on Fairfax County? Are they SOL? Sending those kids to bad schools is one way of making sure they stay poor for generations. Is that what you want?

What do you think makes those schools bad?

Are you blaming the poor for being poor? Do you think they deserve bad schools because they’re poor and therefore will be poor for generations?

No, I’m actually asking, why do you think these “bad schools” are bad? What is the cause? Is it low test scores? Why does one school have so many more test scores than others? I think I know, but you’re the one that keeps alluding that it’s because of poor students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb idea, OP.

You can look at Jefferson County, KY. When they instituted the type of system you want, following the court-ordered merger with Louisville schools, people left for privates and moved to Oldham County.

This isn’t about merging school systems. It’s about creating more choice within a school system. If a family isn’t admitted to the public school of their choice, they can go to private. Threatening to go private suggests wealthy families are currently hoarding certain public schools as if they’re private. In that case, go ahead and pay for private and leave the good publics for other families.

There aren’t “good publics” without good peer groups. The idea that one school is any better than another in FCPS because of any reason other than family wealth is ridiculous.

Every school has the same standard for teachers, the same state standards, the same school provided resources.

The difference is the peer groups.

The low performing and poor schools getmore resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

The school's overall score may go up [b]but those students would still struggle.[b]

Got a cite?

There is plenty of documentation out there showing that if kids are below grade level by the time they get to fourth grade, then they stay below grade level for their entire educational experience.

Great, so you agree an intervention is needed. Where is your cite showing that those students don’t improve if given an opportunity to attend a better school?

The research has nothing to do with the type of school that they’re attending. It has to do with them being below grade level. Are you asserting that they struggle because they’re not at a premier school? There are plenty of reasons why students struggle and the majority of them have to do with learning disabilities and language deficits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

Nor are all students at bad schools immigrants.

+1, lots of lower performing schools all over the US are filled with Caucasian students. A lot of those students are poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

A large cohort of involved parents who value education and have the resources to supplement if needed. Everyone tries to pretend there's some secret formula but this is what it comes down to.

This has been true for hundreds of years. Families with money, who are not fighting the poverty line while working multiple jobs will always be able to afford more. “More” equates to better homes, better education, a better American experience.

How about the kids of parents that work multiple jobs but live below the poverty line right here on Fairfax County? Are they SOL? Sending those kids to bad schools is one way of making sure they stay poor for generations. Is that what you want?

What do you think makes those schools bad?

Are you blaming the poor for being poor? Do you think they deserve bad schools because they’re poor and therefore will be poor for generations?

No, I’m actually asking, why do you think these “bad schools” are bad? What is the cause? Is it low test scores? Why does one school have so many more test scores than others? I think I know, but you’re the one that keeps alluding that it’s because of poor students.

Low test scores, low graduation rates, low reading comprehension is generally considered bad. When placed in that environment, even good students may fail. Therefore give students that want to get out a chance to apply to another school. Students that don’t care can apply to stay. This is trying to give kids assigned to bad schools a chance. It’s not perfect, it might not work. But that’s what public schools are for, giving kids a fair chance and currently that doesn’t happen. If you disagree you can go to private because you too have choices.

[Anonymous]

The top schools get the least from FCPS. They don’t get extra for academic programs and apart from Chantilly don’t have academies. Maybe Langley has more robust foreign language offerings but that’s about it.

They succeed because they are neighborhood schools with invested staff, families, and communities committed to their success. OP is envious so he’s using his furlough to argue they should be blown apart. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb idea, OP.

You can look at Jefferson County, KY. When they instituted the type of system you want, following the court-ordered merger with Louisville schools, people left for privates and moved to Oldham County.

This isn’t about merging school systems. It’s about creating more choice within a school system. If a family isn’t admitted to the public school of their choice, they can go to private. Threatening to go private suggests wealthy families are currently hoarding certain public schools as if they’re private. In that case, go ahead and pay for private and leave the good publics for other families.

You are essentially asking for a merger of successful and less successful schools, the result of which will be to create uniformly mediocre schools.

And your analogy about hoarding schools as if they are private falls flat when the parents of the schools you covet cover most of the costs for all the public schools in the county.

You’ll find little if any support for what you’re proposing among county officials.

Paying taxes doesn’t make you entitled to a certain school. Try again

In Fairfax, it really should, absent a truly compelling need to change boundaries.

Sorry you have nothing better to do today.

But it doesn’t. Sorry the VA code isn’t on your side. Move to some tiny school district in New Jersey if you think that’s better.

Sounds like you’re the one who needs to move, because you aren’t going to get what you’re after here.

You can look at the “Opening of Schools” report and see how Reid touted FCPS having 7 of the top 10 high schools in the state. There’s no appetite for having 24 lousy ones.

Who’s to say school choice wouldn’t result in 10 of the top 10 schools in the state? I reject your premise.

Now you’re just entering sad attention whore territory.

I’m advocating for more kids to have opportunity. Try to refrain from insulting terms if you’re interested in a thoughtful discussion.

Volunteer to help with literacy and ESOL at your neighborhood low performing school.

Volunteer for PTA and help bring in after school STEM enrichment.

Get your neighborhood parents to volunteer.

Start a science Olympiad team at your school and pull in other educated parents to step up and run event teams.

All of these just require your time. Any poor or rich parent can do these things with a little bit of effort.

Stop trying to get other parents and other people's kids to do it for you. Step up and lead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not abolish attendance zones and allow families to apply to the schools they think are best for their kids within the county? If there are more apps than seats, choose by lottery. This should appeal to both conservatives and liberals. Conservatives love school choice and liberals love increased diversity in schools.

Nope.

We paid a ton of money for our specific high school zone, specifically because it is a neighborhood school with strong generational ties to the community, and a strong military community.

Your idea would take away that choice from us, the antithesis of school choice and vouchers.

Where in your housing contract were you guaranteed to attend the neighborhood school forever?

Your vision would cause UMC to leave in droves, but you know that, as you frequently argue your inane talking point.

Meh that’s doubtful. Some would move, some would go private. However, a lot don’t want to give up a low mortgage rate or move farther out and have a longer commute. Plus a more diverse socioeconomic Fairfax school could still be better than some other school systems. Stop with your fear mongering.

We’d be a lot better off if we spent more time figuring out what makes schools like Langley, McLean, Oakton, West Springfield, and Chantilly successful, and less time dreaming up new ways to tear them apart.

The answer is to have UMC to wealthy parents and few poor kids to drag the scores down. That's it. That's the secret.

Or, what if more balanced schools pull the poor scores up?

The school's overall score may go up [b]but those students would still struggle.[b]

Got a cite?

There is plenty of documentation out there showing that if kids are below grade level by the time they get to fourth grade, then they stay below grade level for their entire educational experience.

Great, so you agree an intervention is needed. Where is your cite showing that those students don’t improve if given an opportunity to attend a better school?

The research has nothing to do with the type of school that they’re attending. It has to do with them being below grade level. Are you asserting that they struggle because they’re not at a premier school? There are plenty of reasons why students struggle and the majority of them have to do with learning disabilities and language deficits.

Who said students applying to transfer would have disabilities or language issues? What about a solid student assigned to a bad school? Why shouldn’t that student be allowed to apply to a different school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The top schools get the least from FCPS. They don’t get extra for academic programs and apart from Chantilly don’t have academies. Maybe Langley has more robust foreign language offerings but that’s about it.

They succeed because they are neighborhood schools with invested staff, families, and communities committed to their success. OP is envious so he’s using his furlough to argue they should be blown apart. No thanks.

Doesn’t matter. Students in the same school system should have equal access to good schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb idea, OP.

You can look at Jefferson County, KY. When they instituted the type of system you want, following the court-ordered merger with Louisville schools, people left for privates and moved to Oldham County.

This isn’t about merging school systems. It’s about creating more choice within a school system. If a family isn’t admitted to the public school of their choice, they can go to private. Threatening to go private suggests wealthy families are currently hoarding certain public schools as if they’re private. In that case, go ahead and pay for private and leave the good publics for other families.

You are essentially asking for a merger of successful and less successful schools, the result of which will be to create uniformly mediocre schools.

And your analogy about hoarding schools as if they are private falls flat when the parents of the schools you covet cover most of the costs for all the public schools in the county.

You’ll find little if any support for what you’re proposing among county officials.

Paying taxes doesn’t make you entitled to a certain school. Try again

In Fairfax, it really should, absent a truly compelling need to change boundaries.

Sorry you have nothing better to do today.

But it doesn’t. Sorry the VA code isn’t on your side. Move to some tiny school district in New Jersey if you think that’s better.

Sounds like you’re the one who needs to move, because you aren’t going to get what you’re after here.

You can look at the “Opening of Schools” report and see how Reid touted FCPS having 7 of the top 10 high schools in the state. There’s no appetite for having 24 lousy ones.

Who’s to say school choice wouldn’t result in 10 of the top 10 schools in the state? I reject your premise.

Now you’re just entering sad attention whore territory.

I’m advocating for more kids to have opportunity. Try to refrain from insulting terms if you’re interested in a thoughtful discussion.

Volunteer to help with literacy and ESOL at your neighborhood low performing school.

Volunteer for PTA and help bring in after school STEM enrichment.

Get your neighborhood parents to volunteer.

Start a science Olympiad team at your school and pull in other educated parents to step up and run event teams.

All of these just require your time. Any poor or rich parent can do these things with a little bit of effort.

Stop trying to get other parents and other people's kids to do it for you. Step up and lead.

Great idea. So you agree all students in a system should have equal access to good schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the root cause. We as a nation should not have imported large amounts of poverty. That is it. Now some schools suffer.

Straw man. We have always been a country of immigrants, many of them poor.

So send your kids to Herndon or Annandale. People are clearly avoiding these schools - sequestering themselves in fewer and fewer FCPS schools - and it's not because of a bunch of poor native U.S. citizens. FCPS was not always this way.