High stats kid with disappointing end results?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent four years telling my kid that he should do his best and if he got top grades, good ECs, high scores that it would prepare him to succeed and get a lottery ticket. He got straight As with the exception of an honors science class sophomore year, 88.87. Our school district doesn’t round up and he had the bad luck to get a teacher who didn’t allow retakes or extra credit. I assured him that two semesters of Bs would not ruin his future. The only kids who got As in that class were three cheaters which really annoyed him. He had excellent ECs which were his authentically. He took a bunch of dual enrollment units and as many APs as the school would allow. His essays were great and not written by someone else. I told him how proud we were but to prepared for things to go differently. His older cousin was valedictorian, perfect SATs and was shut out from all but one of his safeties. My son’s guidance counselor was overly encouraging telling him he had an excellent shot at his dream school.

My son did not get into his dream school or his targets but got into a few safeties. He’s crushed. To make matters worst, the two kids in his school that got in lied on their apps, cheated their way through school, and paid someone else to write their essays. He tutored them in several subjects and always went out of his way to help other students. He’s really struggling with reality that being ethical and helping others doesn’t pay off but lying and cheating does.

That's a tough lesson, and I could see teens falling into that trap. Why play by the rules when you don't get rewarded in the end?

There will always be someone who is gaining an "unfair advantage".

My college kid chose to take "Freshman Organic Chem" and place out of Chem 101/102 because it was allowed with a 5 on AP. What they didn't know is that puts them in class with other freshman who actually had already taken Organic Chemistry in HS (either in USA or internationally) but had to retake it to get credit (no AP Orgo available). Oh, and most of the kids in the direct admit to Med school (4+4) were in that class. So while Organic Chem typically has a low curve (40-50% is typical at many schools), the curve in this class was set at 86-88% for most midterms and final. My kid was happy to get a B/B+. As they had never had Organic Chem before. Had they waited and taken regular Orgo, they'd have easily gotten an A.
But you know what, it doesn't matter, they are an engineering major, not premed, so the grade doesn't matter, they learned the material did decent in class and are now in their more advanced more interesting Engineering courses

This is precisely why this thread is insufferable. Humblebrag. Who in the heck takes orgo when they are an engineering major? But you had to throw that out there— the inexperience, the tall hill to climb, and then the hero rescue. With the cherry on top—not even his much harder major.

It’s just hard to empathize when I come to this site.

Chemical engineers take orgo, just sayin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

It’s a big country. This is a predictable result if you limit your college choices to the congested northeast.

[Anonymous]

Sour grapes is pointless, not constructive and definitely not a good example for the kids. Most of our kids (including mine) who aim for T-10’s!l or even T-25’s will not get the results they want not because they aren’t great or haven’t worked hard, but because there are just too many kids applying for a few available spots. Time for everyone to accept and adjust to the new reality and see the good part of this new reality- people are learning about and getting excited about schools that didn’t get much attention in the past- UGA, Pitt, Va Tech, Elon, to name a few. This process was eye- opening for my as I took my wonderful-but-not-Ivy Bound kid to look at different schools that had not been on my parent radar. Congrats to your kid OP! She has great choices. No need to be bummed.

[Anonymous]

Before the application process began, I told my kids that there are approximately 21K high schools (both public and private) in the US. For 21K high schools, there are 21K valedictorians and 21K salutatorians. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc typically have around 1900-2200 slots to fill in each year's new freshman class. If all 21K valedictorians applied to Harvard, only 2K would get in if that was the only qualification (which also means no salutatorians get in).

Forget about just high stats kids - odds are that even the best students in the country will be rejected.

[Anonymous]

OP , NYU is #30 on USNWR. What the heck are you worried about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before the application process began, I told my kids that there are approximately 21K high schools (both public and private) in the US. For 21K high schools, there are 21K valedictorians and 21K salutatorians. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc typically have around 1900-2200 slots to fill in each year's new freshman class. If all 21K valedictorians applied to Harvard, only 2K would get in if that was the only qualification (which also means no salutatorians get in).

Forget about just high stats kids - odds are that even the best students in the country will be rejected.

Yep. I also told my kid that all of those kids played travel and HS sports and had the same type of ECs, etc. With grade inflation, there is very little that makes the kids different.

I managed expectations last year by saying--it's not personal, your stats have earned a $75-80 lottery ticket. You can apply and see what happens. I made sure for the full year leading up to it that I kept saying nothing was a sure thing--not our in-state options either. He was pleasantly surprised --but almost all of his friends were not. No idea --luck? He is usually very unlucky lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before the application process began, I told my kids that there are approximately 21K high schools (both public and private) in the US. For 21K high schools, there are 21K valedictorians and 21K salutatorians. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc typically have around 1900-2200 slots to fill in each year's new freshman class. If all 21K valedictorians applied to Harvard, only 2K would get in if that was the only qualification (which also means no salutatorians get in).

Forget about just high stats kids - odds are that even the best students in the country will be rejected[b].

Our HS counselors calls those 'highly rejective schools'.

[Anonymous]

A blunt HS college counselor who tells it like it is is a great thing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before the application process began, I told my kids that there are approximately 21K high schools (both public and private) in the US. For 21K high schools, there are 21K valedictorians and 21K salutatorians. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc typically have around 1900-2200 slots to fill in each year's new freshman class. If all 21K valedictorians applied to Harvard, only 2K would get in if that was the only qualification (which also means no salutatorians get in).

Forget about just high stats kids - odds are that even the best students in the country will be rejected.

Good advice; people think "top 10" or see a 1500 score (98th percentile) and don't step back to see the big picture. 27,000 high schools means over a quarter of a million kids who were top 10 in their class. About 2 million people taking the SAT means about 40,000 1500 plus SAT scores, etc. The numbers overwhelm everything else; very top stats is just gets you a ticket to play and the odds are still very much against you. The numbers also mean that the ALDC preferences which people get so upset about don't significantly affect any individual applicant. Eliminating every single preference at Harvard would only change the odds by a few points from about 3% to maybe 6%; i.e. your child still isn't getting in.

If people were opened eyed about the system they would realize that the peer group level isn't significantly different among the T30 schools and T20 SLACs. Your child no matter how smart will be among their intellectual peers at any of these schools. There is less difference than people believe among the next 20 or so as well and there are literally hundreds of schools that will do right by your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I spent four years telling my kid that he should do his best and if he got top grades, good ECs, high scores that it would prepare him to succeed and get a lottery ticket. He got straight As with the exception of an honors science class sophomore year, 88.87. Our school district doesn’t round up and he had the bad luck to get a teacher who didn’t allow retakes or extra credit. I assured him that two semesters of Bs would not ruin his future. The only kids who got As in that class were three cheaters which really annoyed him. He had excellent ECs which were his authentically. He took a bunch of dual enrollment units and as many APs as the school would allow. His essays were great and not written by someone else. I told him how proud we were but to prepared for things to go differently. His older cousin was valedictorian, perfect SATs and was shut out from all but one of his safeties. My son’s guidance counselor was overly encouraging telling him he had an excellent shot at his dream school.

My son did not get into his dream school or his targets but got into a few safeties. He’s crushed. To make matters worst, the two kids in his school that got in lied on their apps, cheated their way through school, and paid someone else to write their essays. He tutored them in several subjects and always went out of his way to help other students. He’s really struggling with reality that being ethical and helping others doesn’t pay off but lying and cheating does.

I know this is hard on your kid, but college admissions is not the end game. He will be better prepared to thrive in life and be happier. Hopefully he can learn to love where he ends up and has a wonderful time at college and can sleep well at night with his strong work ethic and integrity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before the application process began, I told my kids that there are approximately 21K high schools (both public and private) in the US. For 21K high schools, there are 21K valedictorians and 21K salutatorians. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc typically have around 1900-2200 slots to fill in each year's new freshman class. If all 21K valedictorians applied to Harvard, only 2K would get in if that was the only qualification (which also means no salutatorians get in).

Forget about just high stats kids - odds are that even the best students in the country will be rejected.

Good advice; people think "top 10" or see a 1500 score (98th percentile) and don't step back to see the big picture. 27,000 high schools means over a quarter of a million kids who were top 10 in their class. About 2 million people taking the SAT means about 40,000 1500 plus SAT scores, etc. The numbers overwhelm everything else; very top stats is just gets you a ticket to play and the odds are still very much against you. The numbers also mean that the ALDC preferences which people get so upset about don't significantly affect any individual applicant. Eliminating every single preference at Harvard would only change the odds by a few points from about 3% to maybe 6%; i.e. your child still isn't getting in.

If people were opened eyed about the system they would realize that the peer group level isn't significantly different among the T30 schools and T20 SLACs. Your child no matter how smart will be among their intellectual peers at any of these schools. There is less difference than people believe among the next 20 or so as well and there are literally hundreds of schools that will do right by your kids.

Exactly - nothing wrong with applying, but expectations should be tempered. It's a good life lesson - hard work doesn't always mean you get what you want, but rather it is its own reward - what you think is the payoff may turn out to be something completely different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m convinced if schools went back to providing class rank to parents, there would be a lot less of such surprising results. The colleges still calculate for admission purposes.

Bigger issue is that there aren't enough top spots for top kids. Especially this year with the expanded birth rate and the emphasis on taking FGLI and rural kids. These colleges can't fill their classes with DMV high achievers.

No the biggest issue is actually that it’s not that difficult for a very disciplined, reasonably bright teenager to be “high stats” with “leadership” (rote) ECs in the current environment

A basic smart kids who puts in the time, which admittedly is not a small amount of time, then you will come out with a super high inflated GPA, a whole bunch of APs with all fives, and above a 1500 on the SAT. ***this profile is not special***

At all. Throw in some hard work on debate team and some hard work as the first chair violinist and you will earn regional awards. Again, not that big of a deal.

In my experience over the past eight years at the highest levels of DC privates, and expensive neighborhood publics, it’s the truly special people who deserve and get the top spots. They’re different they sparkle and they’re often genuine.

Johnny, Soon Jun and Maria “High Stats” are typically formulaic candidates who are confused when Princeton doesn’t come calling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

He was never really interested in UVA. Of the 12 t40 schools he toured that was his least favorite. He only applied because his cousin is a Sr there and convinced him to. He fees like is settling for UVA. He always had Science Po and St Andrews ahead of UVA in his own mind anyway.
As of now, he is leaning Science Po.