High stats kid with disappointing end results?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m convinced if schools went back to providing class rank to parents, there would be a lot less of such surprising results. The colleges still calculate for admission purposes.

Bigger issue is that there aren't enough top spots for top kids. Especially this year with the expanded birth rate and the emphasis on taking FGLI and rural kids. These colleges can't fill their classes with DMV high achievers.

No the biggest issue is actually that it’s not that difficult for a very disciplined, reasonably bright teenager to be “high stats” with “leadership” (rote) ECs in the current environment

A basic smart kids who puts in the time, which admittedly is not a small amount of time, then you will come out with a super high inflated GPA, a whole bunch of APs with all fives, and above a 1500 on the SAT. ***this profile is not special***

At all. Throw in some hard work on debate team and some hard work as the first chair violinist and you will earn regional awards. Again, not that big of a deal.

In my experience over the past eight years at the highest levels of DC privates, and expensive neighborhood publics, it’s the truly special people who deserve and get the top spots. They’re different they sparkle and they’re often genuine.

Johnny, Soon Jun and Maria “High Stats” are typically formulaic candidates who are confused when Princeton doesn’t come calling.

Some Truth to all this- except there’s nothing wrong or inferior with “regular” or “formulaic” bright kids. They’re wonderful and original in their own way, but just not “standouts” in the Ivy sense. They’re just not going to the very top schools. That’s where the disconnect is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spent four years telling my kid that he should do his best and if he got top grades, good ECs, high scores that it would prepare him to succeed and get a lottery ticket. He got straight As with the exception of an honors science class sophomore year, 88.87. Our school district doesn’t round up and he had the bad luck to get a teacher who didn’t allow retakes or extra credit. I assured him that two semesters of Bs would not ruin his future. The only kids who got As in that class were three cheaters which really annoyed him. He had excellent ECs which were his authentically. He took a bunch of dual enrollment units and as many APs as the school would allow. His essays were great and not written by someone else. I told him how proud we were but to prepared for things to go differently. His older cousin was valedictorian, perfect SATs and was shut out from all but one of his safeties. My son’s guidance counselor was overly encouraging telling him he had an excellent shot at his dream school.

My son did not get into his dream school or his targets but got into a few safeties. He’s crushed. To make matters worst, the two kids in his school that got in lied on their apps, cheated their way through school, and paid someone else to write their essays. He tutored them in several subjects and always went out of his way to help other students. He’s really struggling with reality that being ethical and helping others doesn’t pay off but lying and cheating does.

That's a tough lesson, and I could see teens falling into that trap. Why play by the rules when you don't get rewarded in the end?

There will always be someone who is gaining an "unfair advantage".

My college kid chose to take "Freshman Organic Chem" and place out of Chem 101/102 because it was allowed with a 5 on AP. What they didn't know is that puts them in class with other freshman who actually had already taken Organic Chemistry in HS (either in USA or internationally) but had to retake it to get credit (no AP Orgo available). Oh, and most of the kids in the direct admit to Med school (4+4) were in that class. So while Organic Chem typically has a low curve (40-50% is typical at many schools), the curve in this class was set at 86-88% for most midterms and final. My kid was happy to get a B/B+. As they had never had Organic Chem before. Had they waited and taken regular Orgo, they'd have easily gotten an A.
But you know what, it doesn't matter, they are an engineering major, not premed, so the grade doesn't matter, they learned the material did decent in class and are now in their more advanced more interesting Engineering courses

This is precisely why this thread is insufferable. Humblebrag. Who in the heck takes orgo when they are an engineering major? But you had to throw that out there— the inexperience, the tall hill to climb, and then the hero rescue. With the cherry on top—not even his much harder major.

It’s just hard to empathize when I come to this site.

Chemical Engineering Majors do. It's a requirement to take the full year of Orgo (lower ranked schools sometime only require 1 semester, but most in the T50 require full year).

So why not NOT comment on something you know nothing about.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gosh ... NYU is so many kids' dream school...
I can't read this kind of post.

Oh, please. It is like someone posting that their kid can’t break above a 1450 on the SAT and you having a kid who can’t get above a 1250 so you “can’t read that kind of post.” Different kids have different goals and hopes…a high stats kid who worked for years towards a goal as the right to feel disappointed when it didn’t pan out and a safety becomes the best of the not-hoped for options.

Then perhaps you as a parent (and family) need to rethink your goals. Common sense and data tell you there are way more "qualified applicants" than spots at T25 schools. Way way more. So ultimately, the vast majority are going to get Rejected. If your "really smart kid" cannot understand that going in, and recognize the goal of doing well isn't just "a prestigious school" but also to learn and to find your path in life, then you need to adjust. The 25-50 schools are FILLED with "t25 rejects", those kids excel and do great things in life. My kid is at one ranked ~40---every single one of their 20+ friends was WL or Spring admit (or fall admit sophomore year) at multiple T25 schools. Many at over 4-5 schools. Top students, great kids, doing great things at college and will continue after graduation. Why? Because they realize you don't always get what you want in life and you make the best of what you do get. And also, a school ranked 30-40 is still an amazing school that literally 95% of students who are not there would be thrilled to be capable of getting into.

People are not robots. These young people, and their parents, are allowed to experience emotions. You can realize that the stats and facts are true. You can be prepared to move on with the knowledge that life is what you make. You can be disappointed, even sad, while also doing/acknowledging all of the above.

Unrealistic expectations lead to these emotions. TBH, it’s not healthy.

It’s not healthy not to feel emotions. Better to dream and lose than never to dream at all. Right?

yes, it's healthy to feel emotions. But a 17/18yo should not be depressed/moping around for more than a few days because "they didn't get into their dream school or any T25 schools". That is not healthy. And if the parents worked harder to set expectations, their kids would be upset and move on to focus on the choices they actually have at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Before the application process began, I told my kids that there are approximately 21K high schools (both public and private) in the US. For 21K high schools, there are 21K valedictorians and 21K salutatorians. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc typically have around 1900-2200 slots to fill in each year's new freshman class. If all 21K valedictorians applied to Harvard, only 2K would get in if that was the only qualification (which also means no salutatorians get in).

Forget about just high stats kids - odds are that even the best students in the country will be rejected.

Yep. I also told my kid that all of those kids played travel and HS sports and had the same type of ECs, etc. With grade inflation, there is very little that makes the kids different.

I managed expectations last year by saying--it's not personal, your stats have earned a $75-80 lottery ticket. You can apply and see what happens. I made sure for the full year leading up to it that I kept saying nothing was a sure thing--not our in-state options either. He was pleasantly surprised --but almost all of his friends were not. No idea --luck? He is usually very unlucky lol

Excellent plan. A good part of tempering expectations is also having a really good list of Targets and Safeties. They all need to be schools your kid would actually be happy attending and that you can afford.
And within the Targets, find some that are 30%+ acceptance rate and your kid is at/above 75%---which IMO means much closer to a safety, especially if you demonstrate interest. Having all your targets be 22% acceptance and your kids at ~25-30% for stats is really almost "more reaches".

Most people I see who "only get into a safety or two" didn't really have strong Targets. They had mostly reaches and wonder why, which is silly. They could have prevented that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Genuine question---why apply to UVA at all (especially OOS) if "he doesn't want to go to UVA"? Also OOS UVA is a Reach with a 13% acceptance rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

He was never really interested in UVA. Of the 12 t40 schools he toured that was his least favorite. He only applied because his cousin is a Sr there and convinced him to. He fees like is settling for UVA. He always had Science Po and St Andrews ahead of UVA in his own mind anyway.
As of now, he is leaning Science Po.

So did you apply to all reaches? It sounds like you did. And that sets you up for rejection.
You had control, could have selected targets and safeties your kid liked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

He was never really interested in UVA. Of the 12 t40 schools he toured that was his least favorite. He only applied because his cousin is a Sr there and convinced him to. He fees like is settling for UVA. He always had Science Po and St Andrews ahead of UVA in his own mind anyway.
As of now, he is leaning Science Po.

So did you apply to all reaches? It sounds like you did. And that sets you up for rejection.
You had control, could have selected targets and safeties your kid liked.

I can’t help but feel this is a troll post. UVA OOS is a reach for most and is much more desirable than St. Andrews, which accepts 100% private school kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

He was never really interested in UVA. Of the 12 t40 schools he toured that was his least favorite. He only applied because his cousin is a Sr there and convinced him to. He fees like is settling for UVA. He always had Science Po and St Andrews ahead of UVA in his own mind anyway.
As of now, he is leaning Science Po.

So did you apply to all reaches? It sounds like you did. And that sets you up for rejection.
You had control, could have selected targets and safeties your kid liked.

No of course not. He applied to safeties in the < t80 range and got in several. Not going to list them here. UVA was the best US school he got in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

He was never really interested in UVA. Of the 12 t40 schools he toured that was his least favorite. He only applied because his cousin is a Sr there and convinced him to. He fees like is settling for UVA. He always had Science Po and St Andrews ahead of UVA in his own mind anyway.
As of now, he is leaning Science Po.

So did you apply to all reaches? It sounds like you did. And that sets you up for rejection.
You had control, could have selected targets and safeties your kid liked.

I can’t help but feel this is a troll post. UVA OOS is a reach for most and is much more desirable than St. Andrews, which accepts 100% private school kids.

1st of all you dont even know the Major and no nothing about my kid’s interests. UVA might be more desirable for YOU and for some, but clearly not ALL. And NO, they dont accept 100% private school kids. Don’t be a knucklehead. He is leaning Science Po anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Genuine question---why apply to UVA at all (especially OOS) if "he doesn't want to go to UVA"? Also OOS UVA is a Reach with a 13% acceptance rate.

His dad is a UVA grad….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Genuine question---why apply to UVA at all (especially OOS) if "he doesn't want to go to UVA"? Also OOS UVA is a Reach with a 13% acceptance rate.

It sounds like he didn't apply to enough realistic schools and that's on the parents. Only applying to the most selective schools was the mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Genuine question---why apply to UVA at all (especially OOS) if "he doesn't want to go to UVA"? Also OOS UVA is a Reach with a 13% acceptance rate.

His dad is a UVA grad….

And? That means nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

He was never really interested in UVA. Of the 12 t40 schools he toured that was his least favorite. He only applied because his cousin is a Sr there and convinced him to. He fees like is settling for UVA. He always had Science Po and St Andrews ahead of UVA in his own mind anyway.
As of now, he is leaning Science Po.

So did you apply to all reaches? It sounds like you did. And that sets you up for rejection.
You had control, could have selected targets and safeties your kid liked.

I can’t help but feel this is a troll post. UVA OOS is a reach for most and is much more desirable than St. Andrews, which accepts 100% private school kids.

Difficult to tell if it's a troll or not. As there are so many people who "get shut out" of all but 1 or 2 safeties, and usually it's because the others are ALL reaches. You would think that people would learn, but I guess they just think "my snowflake is special".

Whereas people who have a truly balanced list: which includes Targets that I call "high targets", meaning 30%+ acceptance rate and kid is at/above 75% for stats, they typically get into at least 50%+ of their targets and all of their safeties. You just have to be honest about what's a target and safety.
I mean, I'd much rather my kid find their real targets and safeties themselves, and choose schools that are a good fit and somewhere they would be happy attending. And those schools exist for even the tippy top students. You just need the right mindset

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

He was never really interested in UVA. Of the 12 t40 schools he toured that was his least favorite. He only applied because his cousin is a Sr there and convinced him to. He fees like is settling for UVA. He always had Science Po and St Andrews ahead of UVA in his own mind anyway.
As of now, he is leaning Science Po.

So did you apply to all reaches? It sounds like you did. And that sets you up for rejection.
You had control, could have selected targets and safeties your kid liked.

No of course not. He applied to safeties in the < t80 range and got in several. Not going to list them here. UVA was the best US school he got in.

So your kid got into UVA, which is a REACH for OOS students. So what is your complaint? Plenty of kids (in fact most of them) get shutout of reaches. By definition for a higher stats kid, the reaches are "highly rejective schools". But your kid actually got into a Reach and sounds like plenty of Targets and Safeties. That's what's supposed to happen.
However, it still best the question why do you apply to a school that your kid doesn't want to attend?!?!?! This added to the admission problems and drives down acceptance rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone with high stats kids, who didn't get where you thought they should? Thought mine would land a few T25s, but didn't. She got into NYU, UMD and GWU, which are good choices but still feel a bit bummed.

Anyone experiencing this? How to get over it.

1520 kid, 3.9 UW.
Applied to 12 t40 schools.
Denied at every single one but UVA (OOS). He is bummed. He doesn't want to go to UVA.
He was also accepted at Science Po and St Andrews and is trying to decide between the two.

Why not UVA? My kid is in the same position and while the rejections sucked (they always do) she is now super excited about UVA. We know many top students who did not get in. I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head.

He was never really interested in UVA. Of the 12 t40 schools he toured that was his least favorite. He only applied because his cousin is a Sr there and convinced him to. He fees like is settling for UVA. He always had Science Po and St Andrews ahead of UVA in his own mind anyway.
As of now, he is leaning Science Po.

So did you apply to all reaches? It sounds like you did. And that sets you up for rejection.
You had control, could have selected targets and safeties your kid liked.

I can’t help but feel this is a troll post. UVA OOS is a reach for most and is much more desirable than St. Andrews, which accepts 100% private school kids.

1st of all you dont even know the Major and no nothing about my kid’s interests. UVA might be more desirable for YOU and for some, but clearly not ALL. And NO, they dont accept 100% private school kids. Don’t be a knucklehead. He is leaning Science Po anyway.

If it's not a school for your kid, why the hell apply?!?! It's a REACH for OOS for any major. Your kid got into one of their reaches. That's better than most people
We can't help that you applied to schools you don't want to attend