Explain to me your thought process (parents) with being highly competitive with your swimmer

[Anonymous]

The real question is when do you tap out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real question is when do you tap out?

As a parent? Drive them to practice and meets, and that’s it. High level swimmers know their times, know the cut times, and what is at stake if they do or don’t continue improving. It’s a lot of pressure to train for months and hope that it pays off in races that are over so quickly. Do not add to that pressure as a parent. Swimmers tend to be hard on themselves. It is so damaging for a kid to be upset about a bad race and then worry their parents will be mad about it on top of that.

The best advice I have read was “don’t care more than your kid”. Save that for school/education if needed. Everything else is not a hill you need to die on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real question is when do you tap out?

As a parent? Drive them to practice and meets, and that’s it. High level swimmers know their times, know the cut times, and what is at stake if they do or don’t continue improving. It’s a lot of pressure to train for months and hope that it pays off in races that are over so quickly. Do not add to that pressure as a parent. Swimmers tend to be hard on themselves. It is so damaging for a kid to be upset about a bad race and then worry their parents will be mad about it on top of that.

The best advice I have read was “don’t care more than your kid”. Save that for school/education if needed. Everything else is not a hill you need to die on.

This is so true. Early on, I had what DC calls my “swim mommy” phase. I was oretty involved because I thought that showed interest and would help DC succeed. What I learned was that I was doing exactly the opposite and it was making my kid not want to swim. So now, I let DC make the decisions and I just show up to watch. As my kid said to me earlier after an ok day at January Open, “in 10 years I won’t remember what my times were, but I will remember if I had fun and enjoyed it”. And really, *that’s* what matters most.

[Anonymous]

Well. Every family is different. I have a 15 year old and at that age, everything is driven by him, not us.

But yes, on top of club swim, high school swim, we do private lessons and camps. I got involved as an official to enjoy my time at the meets. I have made so many friends through swimming. It has just become our lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

My kid has a friend whose parent basically just pays and gives rides. Doesn’t get involved at all or take any initiative to help their kid navigate the swim world. The kid is always complaining. Then my kid comes home and actually thanks me for being involved and helping. It’s wild.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid has a friend whose parent basically just pays and gives rides. Doesn’t get involved at all or take any initiative to help their kid navigate the swim world. The kid is always complaining. Then my kid comes home and actually thanks me for being involved and helping. It’s wild.

It’s a fine line between being involved so that your kid feels like you care and feels that they can talk to you about swim, and being the parent immediately in their ear after a meet about how they did and overly invested in their performance.

[Anonymous]

I think these some of these super intense parents are living through their kids sports achivements

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think these some of these super intense parents are living through their kids sports achivements

Not OP. But the level of intensity of youth sports, especially on parents’ side, always amuses me, sometimes puzzles me. I can understand parents' emphasis on academics, which supposedly helps kids with better jobs and careers. With sports, the chance of any kids making a living with sports is literally zero. Yet I see many parents pour money, time, energy and emotion into their son/daughter's sport. What's the thought process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think these some of these super intense parents are living through their kids sports achivements

Not OP. But the level of intensity of youth sports, especially on parents’ side, always amuses me, sometimes puzzles me. I can understand parents' emphasis on academics, which supposedly helps kids with better jobs and careers. With sports, the chance of any kids making a living with sports is literally zero. Yet I see many parents pour money, time, energy and emotion into their son/daughter's sport. What's the thought process?

You clearly don’t read any of these threads if you are still asking this question.

There are so many benefits of youth sports. Health and exercise. Friendships. Learning to work as a team. Building character through defeat. Learning to manage expectations. Learning to work hard at something. Keeping kids off of electronics. Keeping kids out of trouble.

My kids absolutely love their sports. And they do well in school. They learn time management.

All of this will set them up well for their future.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the discussion. All of those mentioned are not patented by sports though. Literally anything in life can teach you all of those good lessons. Even playing electronic games well requires good time management, learning from defeat, collaboration with friends, strategies, taking good care of yourself physically and mentally, etc. Yet sports is the only thing that attracts that level of parents involvement. Why? I think it maybe because sports is historically valued, thus nowadays it brings a bit of social advantages /attractiveness than other activities. But comments welcomed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the discussion. All of those mentioned are not patented by sports though. Literally anything in life can teach you all of those good lessons. Even playing electronic games well requires good time management, learning from defeat, collaboration with friends, strategies, taking good care of yourself physically and mentally, etc. Yet sports is the only thing that attracts that level of parents involvement. Why? I think it maybe because sports is historically valued, thus nowadays it brings a bit of social advantages /attractiveness than other activities. But comments welcomed.

Sports are really fun. Children (and adults) have been physical games since the beginning of time. Physical play and competition are in our DNA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the discussion. All of those mentioned are not patented by sports though. Literally anything in life can teach you all of those good lessons. Even playing electronic games well requires good time management, learning from defeat, collaboration with friends, strategies, taking good care of yourself physically and mentally, etc. Yet sports is the only thing that attracts that level of parents involvement. Why? I think it maybe because sports is historically valued, thus nowadays it brings a bit of social advantages /attractiveness than other activities. But comments welcomed.

DP - the health benefits of regular physical exercise cannot be overstated. That’s my primary motivator for having my kids involved in sports. I built the exercise habit relatively early (HS), competed in various sports and 30+ years later still work out daily.

Sports can also be really, really fun, as PP noted. Not that other things aren’t, but there’s something about working hard physically with your teammates that is a blast. Those are some of my fondest memories and I want my kids to have the chance to experience that feeling.

All that said, I’m not obsessed with my kids’ swimming. I’m involved in that I’m an official, take them to meets, etc., but as long as they’re having fun and working hard, I don’t care about their times. Progress, yes, but I see that differently.

[Anonymous]

I am not a crazy swim parent but it’s pretty obvious to me why parents get crazy about sports here. First of all your kid needs to be high achieving to get into school - whether that’s private high school or college. And (sadly to me) it’s just a fact that being high achieving in a sport is an easier path to admission than high achieving academically.

Second, as noted by others, sports are really great for keeping your kid healthy and building a life long exercise habit. But because other parents are so competitive, it’s a race to the top for everyone. Most kids don’t enjoy being always on the bench so they have to do what the crazy parents are doing for their kids to have any chance of keeping up. I wish we were at a mediocre pool so my kid could just be casual about swimming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I understand that the DMV is very competitive - parents here hire tutors for everything, take prep classes for every standardize test, get private coaching, specialized sport camps, etc. On the academic front it makes sense, you want your kid to understand/know material, succeed, do well in college, etc. But I am having a tougher time understanding the same mentality with sports and swim in particular (where it is not subjective but time based with motivational standard to show where a swimmer falls in speed/talent).

We know some families that spend a lot of resources on private coaching and camps every year for their swimmers. They push the head coach to focus on their swimmers' needs. The kids are good (mostly AA times and some AAA times) although the one it very much appears is peaking and being surpassed by peers that have not swam as long. They used to have a lot of success because of all the private instruction at a very young age. Now their peers are reaching the same skill level. You see the kid cry a lot with the parents, and it very much appears the parents are VERY hard on the swimmers and coaching their swimmers a lot (not swimmers themselves). It has been overheard the constant critiques about what the swimmer did wrong in the water.

I want to understand this parent. Is the goal to have a D1 swimmer? The scholarship money in no way equals the resources spent to perfect the strokes since the swimmer was 8. Is playing a sport in college that important to lifelong success?

Do you think you have an Olympian on your hand and this could be a life long career? I don't understand it. Do you not realize that they could burn out, hate it, opt to quit because of the pressure? Or they will be done in high school or college and never swim again?

What does this parent think swimming for their child means? It very much appears the parent is "living" through their child since they were not swimmers themselves. I guess I really and truly do not understand what the thought process is here.

There is definitely a lot of this, and the line between being supportive and crazy can be thin. I have two kids that swim. If they were as passionate about debate team, math Olympiad, science Olympiad, academic decathlon, robotics, or any kind of academic competition, I would find it very hard if not impossible, to be a fearsome obsessive parent, because those were my passions at that age.

Fortunately, they are not, so I am now a swim parent who supports, but leaves it up to the coaches and the kids. I do really enjoy the math and strategy in swimming - the splits, trying to swim negative splits, counting strokes, timing breakouts, strategizing points at high school meets - I find those things so fun to learn about, and my kids do as well.

Do I try to find ways for my kids to succeed in swim? Yes, I do. If they want to go to camp, or need a ride to morning practice, I will oblige. It’s important for them to see the value of hard work and mental focus, and while I learned the lesson through academic competition, there’s something about the combination of physical exertion, the thrill of racing, and the absolute clarity of what to do in a single moment, that just works for both of my kids.

I think the question of how competitive swim parents are really boils down to what their expectations are and how they react to their kids. My kids skip practice when they have a test the next day or if they just want a day off. I have hopes but not expectations of time cuts or meet qualifications, and I have never spoken harshly or even been tempted to speak harshly to my kids or anyone else about their swimming performance. I will certainly scold them for not cleaning up their space after a swim meet, but not about swimming. My kids tell me about other kids whose parents yell at them after a bad race or force them to go to practice and that sounds miserable. School is mandatory. Swimming is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I understand that the DMV is very competitive - parents here hire tutors for everything, take prep classes for every standardize test, get private coaching, specialized sport camps, etc. On the academic front it makes sense, you want your kid to understand/know material, succeed, do well in college, etc. But I am having a tougher time understanding the same mentality with sports and swim in particular (where it is not subjective but time based with motivational standard to show where a swimmer falls in speed/talent).

We know some families that spend a lot of resources on private coaching and camps every year for their swimmers. They push the head coach to focus on their swimmers' needs. The kids are good (mostly AA times and some AAA times) although the one it very much appears is peaking and being surpassed by peers that have not swam as long. They used to have a lot of success because of all the private instruction at a very young age. Now their peers are reaching the same skill level. You see the kid cry a lot with the parents, and it very much appears the parents are VERY hard on the swimmers and coaching their swimmers a lot (not swimmers themselves). It has been overheard the constant critiques about what the swimmer did wrong in the water.

I want to understand this parent. Is the goal to have a D1 swimmer? The scholarship money in no way equals the resources spent to perfect the strokes since the swimmer was 8. Is playing a sport in college that important to lifelong success?

Do you think you have an Olympian on your hand and this could be a life long career? I don't understand it. Do you not realize that they could burn out, hate it, opt to quit because of the pressure? Or they will be done in high school or college and never swim again?

What does this parent think swimming for their child means? It very much appears the parent is "living" through their child since they were not swimmers themselves. I guess I really and truly do not understand what the thought process is here.

There is definitely a lot of this, and the line between being supportive and crazy can be thin. I have two kids that swim. If they were as passionate about debate team, math Olympiad, science Olympiad, academic decathlon, robotics, or any kind of academic competition, I would find it very hard if not impossible, to be a fearsome obsessive parent, because those were my passions at that age.

Fortunately, they are not, so I am now a swim parent who supports, but leaves it up to the coaches and the kids. I do really enjoy the math and strategy in swimming - the splits, trying to swim negative splits, counting strokes, timing breakouts, strategizing points at high school meets - I find those things so fun to learn about, and my kids do as well.

Do I try to find ways for my kids to succeed in swim? Yes, I do. If they want to go to camp, or need a ride to morning practice, I will oblige. It’s important for them to see the value of hard work and mental focus, and while I learned the lesson through academic competition, there’s something about the combination of physical exertion, the thrill of racing, and the absolute clarity of what to do in a single moment, that just works for both of my kids.

I think the question of how competitive swim parents are really boils down to what their expectations are and how they react to their kids. My kids skip practice when they have a test the next day or if they just want a day off. I have hopes but not expectations of time cuts or meet qualifications, and I have never spoken harshly or even been tempted to speak harshly to my kids or anyone else about their swimming performance. I will certainly scold them for not cleaning up their space after a swim meet, but not about swimming. My kids tell me about other kids whose parents yell at them after a bad race or force them to go to practice and that sounds miserable. School is mandatory. Swimming is not.

Also a swim parent here. I think that the crazy competitive pressure goes well beyond the pool and have personal experience with it.

My daughter has friends on other swim teams in the area and one club in particular seems to foster a very unhealthy competitive drive. The kids are 10u and are swimming 4 days a week with private lessons (at least one a week). The children access other competitors’ times in meet mobile and are then rudely speaking down to people in their same age group at their own club and at other clubs. It’s disheartening and comes from the parents. These are 10 year olds!! While yes they have AAA times they are children. Parents are giving their kids access to this data to arm them against other peers.

I played D1 sports in college and know a lot about competitive drive, but at some point you have to wonder what are we doing to our youth? Constantly comparing themselves to others is not fair to either child and rubbing times in other people’s faces is unhealthy.

Some people don’t have the time or money for all of the private lessons, the cross training etc etc. and if you do, great. Speak to your children about being good people rather than bullies. So much of the competitive drive that gets passed down to these children seems to turn toxic when kids are dealing with peers. They repeat the craziness that they hear in their homes from their Type A parents.