Anyone else have concerns over CS major with controversy over H-1B visas / job saturation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That’s exactly how it works. You hire one and then he will bring another Indian and they will only hire Indians.

And this goes for all sectors, not just computer science and IT.

So if someone is wondering why there’s a backlash against H 1 B visas (which I believe is 80% Indians) it’s because this unspeakable level of corruption.

But if we speak out against this we are “racist”.

H 1 Bs aren't being given to hire Indians for HR, so this argument doesn't even make sense. H 1 Bs are for individual contributors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You see what you did there? If you are against H 1 B program you are racist.

There is no shortage of American talent and CS graduates in this country. We just had thousands laid off last year. We don’t need to bring foreigners to take middle class jobs.

Our kids going for CS in college have pretty bad chances of being employed.

There absolutely is a shortage of highly experienced American tech workers willing to be paid $50k-$90k for an "entry level" position that actually expects senior level work.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Industry likes immigrants with a CS or Engineering background in order to create downward pressure on CS and engineering salaries in the USA.

The "shortage" of CS/engineering graduates that Musk and others allege is mostly a myth - caveat that there legitimately are a *small* number of narrow CS/engineering specialties which are in less supply.

There probably is an over supply of web programmers and ordinary application programmers at present. People with specific experience in embedded systems, Linux internals, Verilog/VHDL programming, or networking internals should have zero trouble finding good work - as those are examples of chronic shortage areas. In the metro DC/Baltimore area, there also is a chronic shortage of clearable US Citizens with skills in reverse engineering and applied cryptography.

Applied cryptography issue is mostly that CS majors in the US hardly have math in them. No, discrete is not enough.

"Applied" means not math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You see what you did there? If you are against H 1 B program you are racist.

There is no shortage of American talent and CS graduates in this country. We just had thousands laid off last year. We don’t need to bring foreigners to take middle class jobs.

Our kids going for CS in college have pretty bad chances of being employed.

There absolutely is a shortage of highly experienced American tech workers willing to be paid $50k-$90k for an "entry level" position that actually expects senior level work.

Not relevant.


The average H 1 B salary in the United States is $167,533 per year, or $13,961 per month. Here's some more information about H 1 B salaries:

Top earners: Earn $206,500 per year, or $17,208 per month

75th percentile: Earn $192,000 per year, or $16,000 per month
25th percentile: Earn $141,000 per year, or $11,750 per month
Salary by state: The average salary varies by state, with Washington and the District of Columbia having the highest salaries at $189,747 and $189,317, respectively
Salary by city: The median salary for H 1 B workers in New York City in 2024 is $140,000
Minimum salary: The general minimum salary for H 1 B workers is $60,000 per year, but the actual wage may be higher, especially for senior positions in expensive areas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
That’s exactly how it works. You hire one and then he will bring another Indian and they will only hire Indians.

And this goes for all sectors, not just computer science and IT.

So if someone is wondering why there’s a backlash against H 1 B visas (which I believe is 80% Indians) it’s because this unspeakable level of corruption.

But if we speak out against this we are “racist”.

git good l2p

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a US citizen who has been in the industry for over 15 years and I can tell you my perspective.

The HB program has ruined the job market for Americans.

There is nothing wrong with American education in computer science. It’s the best in the world.

Look at subreddits on computer science careers and you will see tons of graduates cannot find jobs.

FIND jobs???

These best in the world (lol) students should be CREATING jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a US citizen who has been in the industry for over 15 years and I can tell you my perspective.

The HB program has ruined the job market for Americans.

There is nothing wrong with American education in computer science. It’s the best in the world.

Look at subreddits on computer science careers and you will see tons of graduates cannot find jobs.

We had massive layoffs the last couple of years that we never recovered from.

It’s capitalism - cheaper to hire offshore, even often less competent engineers.

Those layoffs were a followup to zirp/COVID boom hiring.

[Anonymous]

My high level high degree coworker coworker, who also developed free ed tech software when in school, went back to his home state to teach at a university to help build the future of CS engineers.

He came back crying after failing to bring their curriculum into the 21st Century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Industry likes immigrants with a CS or Engineering background in order to create downward pressure on CS and engineering salaries in the USA.

The "shortage" of CS/engineering graduates that Musk and others allege is mostly a myth - caveat that there legitimately are a *small* number of narrow CS/engineering specialties which are in less supply.

There probably is an over supply of web programmers and ordinary application programmers at present. People with specific experience in embedded systems, Linux internals, Verilog/VHDL programming, or networking internals should have zero trouble finding good work - as those are examples of chronic shortage areas. In the metro DC/Baltimore area, there also is a chronic shortage of clearable US Citizens with skills in reverse engineering and applied cryptography.

Applied cryptography issue is mostly that CS majors in the US hardly have math in them. No, discrete is not enough.

Lack of ordinary math is an issue only for a very few US undergrad CS programs, most often at a Small LAC.

The primary issue for those DC/Baltimore metro jobs are the non-functional criteria - specifically US Citizen (not green card/PR and not on some visa) AND clearable. For US citizens, working in the Federal sector often provides a high degree of job security.

While criteria for "clearable" seem looser now than in the past, marijuana use is an example of a potential issue (because Federal law still prohibits it, even if some states allow it). Various other items also factor into "clearable" - well beyond the scope of this thread.

[Anonymous]

A bit off-topic, but modern cryptographers nearly always have BS Mathematics degrees. Applied cryptography does not require the same advanced math, because one typically simply will be applying NIST-approved cryptographic algorithms and modes. Hence, it often is done by a CS person.

[Anonymous]

My CS kid has a cleared job lined up for after graduation.

He just did an extended group research project with a few other CS/Engineering majors. The first week one of them said, "critical thinking is not my strongpoint". My kid had to remake every slide in the presentation that the other students made after the advisor said those slides won't get a passing grade. He is involved in another ongoing project where the students basically wait to be directed/told what to do by him or the other leader on the project. He finds that the majority of engineers/CS students just aren't very good at what they do and rely on college to teach them everything, then don't do any personal projects/clubs/etc at all which is where he personally has really learned the most. In fact, he would rather be doing EE/ECE than CS at this point, based on all the knowledge he has picked up with personal projects, but feels that staying in college an extra year would be less beneficial than working a guaranteed year or two in cyber, continuing with personal projects, and then trying to change his career focus once he's not a new grad.

I think a lot of kids going into CS/engineering now just do it bc they think that's what they should do to make money and get a job, but they really would be better off doing something else from a personal satisfaction and skills perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My CS kid has a cleared job lined up for after graduation.

He just did an extended group research project with a few other CS/Engineering majors. The first week one of them said, "critical thinking is not my strongpoint". My kid had to remake every slide in the presentation that the other students made after the advisor said those slides won't get a passing grade. He is involved in another ongoing project where the students basically wait to be directed/told what to do by him or the other leader on the project. He finds that the majority of engineers/CS students just aren't very good at what they do and rely on college to teach them everything, then don't do any personal projects/clubs/etc at all which is where he personally has really learned the most.

In fact, he would rather be doing EE/ECE than CS at this point, based on all the knowledge he has picked up with personal projects, but feels that staying in college an extra year would be less beneficial than working a guaranteed year or two in cyber, continuing with personal projects, and then trying to change his career focus once he's not a new grad.

I think a lot of kids going into CS/engineering now just do it bc they think that's what they should do to make money and get a job, but they really would be better off doing something else from a personal satisfaction and skills perspective.

Your child might want to consider getting a Masters in ECE (rather than a Masters in CS) after 2-3 years. That should be workable for your DC. Many employers, often including the civil service, will support (financially and/or Flex Time) someone getting a STEM graduate degree while working.

Combinations of CompE/CS/EE often are more valuable.

Also, DC should look into the MS programs at the Naval Postgraduate School. Many of these are free to US Citizens and many students are civilians. NPS is both rigorous and well respected in STEM. NPS can hold a student's DoD clearance and they like to have cleared students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a US citizen who has been in the industry for over 15 years and I can tell you my perspective.

And you can say I’m racist or whatever, but it’s a known fact in the industry. Everyone inside KNOWS that Indians only hire other Indians. Most software teams look like a bunch of Indians and one Chinese dude.

So if you kids are not Indian, I hate to tell you, but it will be a fight to get a job.

So what should kids who are academically competitive and want to major in CS but are white and American do? What other major for kids along the STEM but not biochem lines would be good?

This one is so easy. Drink black coffee, and go out in the sun and become brown 🤪

[Anonymous]

Are you saying CS education in US is subpar and doesn’t produce skilled workers?

There was an interview of Berkley professor in WSJ a few months ago about graduates not being have job offers.

https://i.ibb.co/hyyHvTn/even-4-0-berkeley-students-are-cooked-v0-4a8cb42l37rd1.webp

Berkley CS is not good enough?

I received CS education in US in mediocre schools and there were kids creating their own projects, writing their own applications, very capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You see what you did there? If you are against H 1 B program you are racist.

There is no shortage of American talent and CS graduates in this country. We just had thousands laid off last year. We don’t need to bring foreigners to take middle class jobs.

Our kids going for CS in college have pretty bad chances of being employed.

This is the correct answer.

The bias is against American employees by the folks hiring Indian immigrants over Americans.