Anyone else have concerns over CS major with controversy over H-1B visas / job saturation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a shortage of engineers. CS is not engineering. LLM and AI will be assisting CS and engineers for the foreseeable future. AI is a tool. Code generated by AI still has to be tailored to the environment etc. Developers aren’t going anywhere. There will just be need for fewer.

I’m ok with H 1 B programs as long as they’re paid the same rate as American developers.

There is more to CS than generating code. Just like there is more to electrical engineering than documenting a circuit design. AI already does a good jobs of analyzing legal and medical information. It’s a tool for CS just like other professions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My kid is a CS major, and they won a hackathon by thinking outside the box, and problem solving a unique issue.

Hah, reminds me of a take-home math competition when I was in high school. It was something about finding a prime number in a certain range and meeting certain criteria. They probably expected students do do a mathematical proof to solve it. I instead wrote a program to iterate through all possibilities, and the program correctly came up with the solution, in under 1 minute. Got marked down for not using math to solve it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kid is a CS major, and they won a hackathon by thinking outside the box, and problem solving a unique issue.

Hah, reminds me of a take-home math competition when I was in high school. It was something about finding a prime number in a certain range and meeting certain criteria. They probably expected students do do a mathematical proof to solve it. I instead wrote a program to iterate through all possibilities, and the program correctly came up with the solution, in under 1 minute. Got marked down for not using math to solve it!

Are we calling the is_prime function and for loops out of the box thinking now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Then there's companies where they are software companies, and they must innovate. This is both your big companies like Google and Facebook, but also lots of smaller companies, especially startups, and everything in between like OpenTable and DealerSocket (you probably use them to schedule your auto service). Here you need your people to get real innovators, to design easy-to-use, scalable, and secure systems. This is a much more difficult challenge. These jobs are best for the top 10% of engineers, be they US-born or H-1Bs. At companies, like this, it's a rigorous interview process and only a few % of those who apply will be offered jobs.

I've been in both types of companies, but currently I'm in the second type. We tend to hire more American-raised engineers because the American culture of "independence" also means the engineers are willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. That's what I need no my team. We can also find those among H-1Bs (especially if looking at the best of the best), but it's less common, particularly in Asian cultures where for example respecting your elders above all is a big thing. I like someone that will challenge my technical decisions so we can hash it out.

I don’t know what reality you live in, but let’s look at the facts.

1. We are talking about our kids with CS majors not finding jobs.

2. The silicon valley has already been taken over by H 1 B visas which is mostly Indians.

Look at FAANG employees. I interviewed with Microsoft years ago and out of 8 people only one was not Indian.

You will not find a new job yourself.

3. The H 1 B people’s salaries are very high, they are in well above 100K.

Why are giving away 150K, 200K jobs to foreigners while our CS graduates can not find work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then there's companies where they are software companies, and they must innovate. This is both your big companies like Google and Facebook, but also lots of smaller companies, especially startups, and everything in between like OpenTable and DealerSocket (you probably use them to schedule your auto service). Here you need your people to get real innovators, to design easy-to-use, scalable, and secure systems. This is a much more difficult challenge. These jobs are best for the top 10% of engineers, be they US-born or H-1Bs. At companies, like this, it's a rigorous interview process and only a few % of those who apply will be offered jobs.

I've been in both types of companies, but currently I'm in the second type. We tend to hire more American-raised engineers because the American culture of "independence" also means the engineers are willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. That's what I need no my team. We can also find those among H-1Bs (especially if looking at the best of the best), but it's less common, particularly in Asian cultures where for example respecting your elders above all is a big thing. I like someone that will challenge my technical decisions so we can hash it out.

I don’t know what reality you live in, but let’s look at the facts.

1. We are talking about our kids with CS majors not finding jobs.

2. The silicon valley has already been taken over by H 1 B visas which is mostly Indians.

Look at FAANG employees. I interviewed with Microsoft years ago and out of 8 people only one was not Indian.

You will not find a new job yourself.

3. The H 1 B people’s salaries are very high, they are in well above 100K.

Why are giving away 150K, 200K jobs to foreigners while our CS graduates can not find work?

I am an immigrant myself (not Indian) and Americans are blissfully unaware how the rest of the world thinks. The first thing immigrants from my own country do when they arrive to the US is to seek other immigrants from the same country. This is their social network and this is how they look for jobs, food, friends, spouses, doctors etc. My husband and I have never done this and are a big exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then there's companies where they are software companies, and they must innovate. This is both your big companies like Google and Facebook, but also lots of smaller companies, especially startups, and everything in between like OpenTable and DealerSocket (you probably use them to schedule your auto service). Here you need your people to get real innovators, to design easy-to-use, scalable, and secure systems. This is a much more difficult challenge. These jobs are best for the top 10% of engineers, be they US-born or H-1Bs. At companies, like this, it's a rigorous interview process and only a few % of those who apply will be offered jobs.

I've been in both types of companies, but currently I'm in the second type. We tend to hire more American-raised engineers because the American culture of "independence" also means the engineers are willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. That's what I need no my team. We can also find those among H-1Bs (especially if looking at the best of the best), but it's less common, particularly in Asian cultures where for example respecting your elders above all is a big thing. I like someone that will challenge my technical decisions so we can hash it out.

I don’t know what reality you live in, but let’s look at the facts.

1. We are talking about our kids with CS majors not finding jobs.

2. The silicon valley has already been taken over by H 1 B visas which is mostly Indians.

Look at FAANG employees. I interviewed with Microsoft years ago and out of 8 people only one was not Indian.

You will not find a new job yourself.

3. The H 1 B people’s salaries are very high, they are in well above 100K.

Why are giving away 150K, 200K jobs to foreigners while our CS graduates can not find work?

I am an immigrant myself (not Indian) and Americans are blissfully unaware how the rest of the world thinks. The first thing immigrants from my own country do when they arrive to the US is to seek other immigrants from the same country. This is their social network and this is how they look for jobs, food, friends, spouses, doctors etc. My husband and I have never done this and are a big exception.

Huh? 5 pages of this thread argue that Indians only hire other Indians. We get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then there's companies where they are software companies, and they must innovate. This is both your big companies like Google and Facebook, but also lots of smaller companies, especially startups, and everything in between like OpenTable and DealerSocket (you probably use them to schedule your auto service). Here you need your people to get real innovators, to design easy-to-use, scalable, and secure systems. This is a much more difficult challenge. These jobs are best for the top 10% of engineers, be they US-born or H-1Bs. At companies, like this, it's a rigorous interview process and only a few % of those who apply will be offered jobs.

I've been in both types of companies, but currently I'm in the second type. We tend to hire more American-raised engineers because the American culture of "independence" also means the engineers are willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. That's what I need no my team. We can also find those among H-1Bs (especially if looking at the best of the best), but it's less common, particularly in Asian cultures where for example respecting your elders above all is a big thing. I like someone that will challenge my technical decisions so we can hash it out.

I don’t know what reality you live in, but let’s look at the facts.

1. We are talking about our kids with CS majors not finding jobs.

2. The silicon valley has already been taken over by H 1 B visas which is mostly Indians.

Look at FAANG employees. I interviewed with Microsoft years ago and out of 8 people only one was not Indian.

You will not find a new job yourself.

3. The H 1 B people’s salaries are very high, they are in well above 100K.

Why are giving away 150K, 200K jobs to foreigners while our CS graduates can not find work?

I am an immigrant myself (not Indian) and Americans are blissfully unaware how the rest of the world thinks. The first thing immigrants from my own country do when they arrive to the US is to seek other immigrants from the same country. This is their social network and this is how they look for jobs, food, friends, spouses, doctors etc. My husband and I have never done this and are a big exception.

Huh? 5 pages of this thread argue that Indians only hire other Indians. We get it.

It's not just Indians. Most people around the world are pulling for their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then there's companies where they are software companies, and they must innovate. This is both your big companies like Google and Facebook, but also lots of smaller companies, especially startups, and everything in between like OpenTable and DealerSocket (you probably use them to schedule your auto service). Here you need your people to get real innovators, to design easy-to-use, scalable, and secure systems. This is a much more difficult challenge. These jobs are best for the top 10% of engineers, be they US-born or H-1Bs. At companies, like this, it's a rigorous interview process and only a few % of those who apply will be offered jobs.

I've been in both types of companies, but currently I'm in the second type. We tend to hire more American-raised engineers because the American culture of "independence" also means the engineers are willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. That's what I need no my team. We can also find those among H-1Bs (especially if looking at the best of the best), but it's less common, particularly in Asian cultures where for example respecting your elders above all is a big thing. I like someone that will challenge my technical decisions so we can hash it out.

I don’t know what reality you live in, but let’s look at the facts.

1. We are talking about our kids with CS majors not finding jobs.

2. The silicon valley has already been taken over by H 1 B visas which is mostly Indians.

Look at FAANG employees. I interviewed with Microsoft years ago and out of 8 people only one was not Indian.

You will not find a new job yourself.

3. The H 1 B people’s salaries are very high, they are in well above 100K.

Why are giving away 150K, 200K jobs to foreigners while our CS graduates can not find work?

I am an immigrant myself (not Indian) and Americans are blissfully unaware how the rest of the world thinks. The first thing immigrants from my own country do when they arrive to the US is to seek other immigrants from the same country. This is their social network and this is how they look for jobs, food, friends, spouses, doctors etc. My husband and I have never done this and are a big exception.

Huh? 5 pages of this thread argue that Indians only hire other Indians. We get it.

It's not just Indians. Most people around the world are pulling for their own.

Great! But in America we are not supposed to filter out the applicants with "funny names". That would go down poorly. Are you saying everyone else does so we should too? Sounds like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then there's companies where they are software companies, and they must innovate. This is both your big companies like Google and Facebook, but also lots of smaller companies, especially startups, and everything in between like OpenTable and DealerSocket (you probably use them to schedule your auto service). Here you need your people to get real innovators, to design easy-to-use, scalable, and secure systems. This is a much more difficult challenge. These jobs are best for the top 10% of engineers, be they US-born or H-1Bs. At companies, like this, it's a rigorous interview process and only a few % of those who apply will be offered jobs.

I've been in both types of companies, but currently I'm in the second type. We tend to hire more American-raised engineers because the American culture of "independence" also means the engineers are willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. That's what I need no my team. We can also find those among H-1Bs (especially if looking at the best of the best), but it's less common, particularly in Asian cultures where for example respecting your elders above all is a big thing. I like someone that will challenge my technical decisions so we can hash it out.

I don’t know what reality you live in, but let’s look at the facts.

1. We are talking about our kids with CS majors not finding jobs.

2. The silicon valley has already been taken over by H 1 B visas which is mostly Indians.

Look at FAANG employees. I interviewed with Microsoft years ago and out of 8 people only one was not Indian.

You will not find a new job yourself.

3. The H 1 B people’s salaries are very high, they are in well above 100K.

Why are giving away 150K, 200K jobs to foreigners while our CS graduates can not find work?

I am an immigrant myself (not Indian) and Americans are blissfully unaware how the rest of the world thinks. The first thing immigrants from my own country do when they arrive to the US is to seek other immigrants from the same country. This is their social network and this is how they look for jobs, food, friends, spouses, doctors etc. My husband and I have never done this and are a big exception.

Huh? 5 pages of this thread argue that Indians only hire other Indians. We get it.

It's not just Indians. Most people around the world are pulling for their own.

Not really. Eastern Europeans don’t do that. Neither do Latins or Chinese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Huh? 5 pages of this thread argue that Indians only hire other Indians. We get it.

This is a bit untrue; The ultimate bosses are not Indian - they will get rid of the hiring manager that is doing this. Indians don't get promoted to CEO level if they practiced this. Indians want to blend vs make a statement that they will hire only Indians. Indians will and do disassociate from Indians if it will get them a leg up.

What does happen is during the hiring process is that; you have a nervous H1-B that over preps for the interview. They will pass the technical interview perfectly. This is how they were raised they will memorize the entire refence book. And before you think its all Indians - Nope. This batch are the top 1% of Indian students. You occasionally see the lower levels sneak by.

Indians have no power - any power issued in the CS world is one that can be easily taken away. Every Indian in the Software world knows this and know they have to prove value everyday. And hiring "other Indians" is q quick way to lose it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Huh? 5 pages of this thread argue that Indians only hire other Indians. We get it.

This is a bit untrue; The ultimate bosses are not Indian - they will get rid of the hiring manager that is doing this. Indians don't get promoted to CEO level if they practiced this. Indians want to blend vs make a statement that they will hire only Indians. Indians will and do disassociate from Indians if it will get them a leg up.

What does happen is during the hiring process is that; you have a nervous H1-B that over preps for the interview. They will pass the technical interview perfectly. This is how they were raised they will memorize the entire refence book. And before you think its all Indians - Nope. This batch are the top 1% of Indian students. You occasionally see the lower levels sneak by.

Indians have no power - any power issued in the CS world is one that can be easily taken away. Every Indian in the Software world knows this and know they have to prove value everyday. And hiring "other Indians" is q quick way to lose it all.

I'm sorry but I disagree.
https://m.economictimes.com/tech/technology/indians-flying-high-in-silicon-valley-destination-c-suite/articleshow/112411149.cms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Huh? 5 pages of this thread argue that Indians only hire other Indians. We get it.

This is a bit untrue; The ultimate bosses are not Indian - they will get rid of the hiring manager that is doing this. Indians don't get promoted to CEO level if they practiced this. Indians want to blend vs make a statement that they will hire only Indians. Indians will and do disassociate from Indians if it will get them a leg up.

What does happen is during the hiring process is that; you have a nervous H1-B that over preps for the interview. They will pass the technical interview perfectly. This is how they were raised they will memorize the entire refence book. And before you think its all Indians - Nope. This batch are the top 1% of Indian students. You occasionally see the lower levels sneak by.

Indians have no power - any power issued in the CS world is one that can be easily taken away. Every Indian in the Software world knows this and know they have to prove value everyday. And hiring "other Indians" is q quick way to lose it all.

? Only if the company is tiny. Execs in the big companies, like the FAANGs aren't going to fire hiring managers who only hire Indians. I work with a FAANG. Some teams are entirely Indian, living in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then there's companies where they are software companies, and they must innovate. This is both your big companies like Google and Facebook, but also lots of smaller companies, especially startups, and everything in between like OpenTable and DealerSocket (you probably use them to schedule your auto service). Here you need your people to get real innovators, to design easy-to-use, scalable, and secure systems. This is a much more difficult challenge. These jobs are best for the top 10% of engineers, be they US-born or H-1Bs. At companies, like this, it's a rigorous interview process and only a few % of those who apply will be offered jobs.

I've been in both types of companies, but currently I'm in the second type. We tend to hire more American-raised engineers because the American culture of "independence" also means the engineers are willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. That's what I need no my team. We can also find those among H-1Bs (especially if looking at the best of the best), but it's less common, particularly in Asian cultures where for example respecting your elders above all is a big thing. I like someone that will challenge my technical decisions so we can hash it out.

I don’t know what reality you live in, but let’s look at the facts.

1. We are talking about our kids with CS majors not finding jobs.

2. The silicon valley has already been taken over by H 1 B visas which is mostly Indians.

Look at FAANG employees. I interviewed with Microsoft years ago and out of 8 people only one was not Indian.

You will not find a new job yourself.

3. The H 1 B people’s salaries are very high, they are in well above 100K.

Why are giving away 150K, 200K jobs to foreigners while our CS graduates can not find work?

Recently interviewed for an internal job. The entire team is Indians. 5 interviewers are all Indians (only three showed up). I didn't get the job, which is fine. The reality is most tech companies are run by Indians.

I think we should change the H1-B to be a truly genius visa for the very top talents. We don't need the average foreign engineers to take American jobs especially given the current market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally focused on getting jobs that require clearances after seeing the writing on the wall. That was 15 years ago. These days I'm far more concerned about AI. A lot of the grunt work given to new CS graduates is being done by LLMs these days.

Sorry, DH and I were not STEM majors so I don't understand the last sentence, that is why it is challenging to understand what is happening with H-1B's and job market. What are LLM's?

If an LLM can do it, it's not a good use of anyone's time. AI isn't going to be an issue if you have actual skills. In fact, AI will just make you even more valuable since you will be able to leverage it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Then there's companies where they are software companies, and they must innovate. This is both your big companies like Google and Facebook, but also lots of smaller companies, especially startups, and everything in between like OpenTable and DealerSocket (you probably use them to schedule your auto service). Here you need your people to get real innovators, to design easy-to-use, scalable, and secure systems. This is a much more difficult challenge. These jobs are best for the top 10% of engineers, be they US-born or H-1Bs. At companies, like this, it's a rigorous interview process and only a few % of those who apply will be offered jobs.

I've been in both types of companies, but currently I'm in the second type. We tend to hire more American-raised engineers because the American culture of "independence" also means the engineers are willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. That's what I need no my team. We can also find those among H-1Bs (especially if looking at the best of the best), but it's less common, particularly in Asian cultures where for example respecting your elders above all is a big thing. I like someone that will challenge my technical decisions so we can hash it out.

I don’t know what reality you live in, but let’s look at the facts.

1. We are talking about our kids with CS majors not finding jobs.

2. The silicon valley has already been taken over by H 1 B visas which is mostly Indians.

Look at FAANG employees. I interviewed with Microsoft years ago and out of 8 people only one was not Indian.

You will not find a new job yourself.

3. The H 1 B people’s salaries are very high, they are in well above 100K.

Why are giving away 150K, 200K jobs to foreigners while our CS graduates can not find work?

Recently interviewed for an internal job. The entire team is Indians. 5 interviewers are all Indians (only three showed up). I didn't get the job, which is fine. The reality is most tech companies are run by Indians.

I think we should change the H1-B to be a truly genius visa for the very top talents. We don't need the average foreign engineers to take American jobs especially given the current market.

I've noticed that once Indians are in charge they usually only hire other Indians.