Time for reflection as a dem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

Agreed. That and the “woke” stuff. My 70-year-old aunt is an extreme liberal and even she said that the Dems need to stop with this stuff if they want to win.

I’m 45 and as liberal as they come but 1) Hamas is a terrorist organization and 2) men aren’t women. (Trans people shouldn’t be persecuted, before someone jumps on me.)

Trump is a straw at which his voters grasp. Unfortunately he’s a fake and an idiot and will sell American intelligence for money.

So yeah. Depressing day.

When did the Dems come out in support of Hamas? You can't seriously be saying that it was the Dems support of Hamas that lost them the election.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Every major leader of Hamas has been killed (Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, many others). Yet every single day there are 50+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.

Palestinians do not equal Hamas.

Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed in Northern Gaza. That is a fact. It is shameful and a war crime.

After Oct 7:
"Two-thirds of respondents said they continue to support the Hamas-led Oct. 7 attack on Israel, in which militants killed 1,200 people and took at least 240 hostages, and 80% believe it put the Palestinian issue at the center of global attention."
https://www.npr.org/2024/07/26/g-s1-12949/khalil-shikaki-palestinian-polling-israel-gaza-hamas

"In the June 12 poll, 40% of Palestinians in both the West Bank and Gaza said they would prefer Hamas to govern them, followed by Fatah (20%), the Palestinian National Liberation Movement in control of the West Bank and led by Mahmoud Abbas. Eight percent chose others. Support for Hamas over the preceding three months increased by 6%.

Shikaki explains this significant support for Hamas despite the suffering caused by the war: “The support for Hamas comes from various sources, but the most important one is because Palestinians share Hamas' values. They will support Hamas for that, even if Hamas makes wrong moves here or there."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. Democrats aren’t too far left. The country is too fundamentally divided and I believe that I have nothing in common with the people who voted for Trump. They deserve what they get. Let’s stop pretending that this should be one country. I will never compromised on public health, civil rights, education, abortion, or the separation of church and state.

+1,000,000
We won’t be gaslit today

I don’t think you know what gaslighting means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't overthink it. People *hate* inflation, and virtually everything else is an abstract. It doesn't matter that the Biden admin had relatively little to do with the inflation, that we had a soft landing, or that we have fared better than basically any other advanced economy. Those are all abstract ideas to voters too. It doesn't even matter that the rate of inflation has been nearly back to normal for a year. People simply hate inflation and want to punish politicians for it, the end.

Yep.
Plus good old fashioned racism and sexism.

+1000. people don't care about trans surgery for inmates when they have $ in the bank. Sadly they will have less of it now but they got what they asked for. How about dems do a study over the next four years on what Trump "improves" in all of the rural counties and then play the results in 2028 ads? If we have an election that is.

You do understand that as a country, we are borrowing a third of the dollars we spend at the federal level. At the state and local level, governments are struggling to pay for quality basic services like education and policing. Spending even one dollar on trans surgeries for inmates is unacceptable. Give them mental health care and move on.

Or we give full and universal healthcare to everyone, including their brains, eyes and teeth, whether inmates or not, on the premise that a healthy workforce is a productive and innovative workforce.

How do we pay for that, exactly? Did you not read the part about how much we are ALREADY borrowing?

Some party has to go step up and do the whole belt tightening exercise Britain went through a decade ago. For sanity's sake. I don't care which. Just do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

Agreed. That and the “woke” stuff. My 70-year-old aunt is an extreme liberal and even she said that the Dems need to stop with this stuff if they want to win.

I’m 45 and as liberal as they come but 1) Hamas is a terrorist organization and 2) men aren’t women. (Trans people shouldn’t be persecuted, before someone jumps on me.)

Trump is a straw at which his voters grasp. Unfortunately he’s a fake and an idiot and will sell American intelligence for money.

So yeah. Depressing day.

When did the Dems come out in support of Hamas? You can't seriously be saying that it was the Dems support of Hamas that lost them the election.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Every major leader of Hamas has been killed (Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, many others). Yet every single day there are 50+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.

Palestinians do not equal Hamas.

Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed in Northern Gaza. That is a fact. It is shameful and a war crime.

Voters may have seen it differently. A large part of the far left wing was very sympathetic to Hamas, the center was hesitant to criticize Hamas for fear of the wrath of the progressives and some Michigan voters. Palestinian voters have kept Hamas in power so it’s hard for many people to be sympathetic to civilians who voted in terrorists. Plus, a lot of Americans just don’t like Muslims.

[Anonymous]

Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

I'm an older Den voter who doesn't agree with the trans stuff, but I still vote Dem.

Agree - that isn't even on my radar and I'm pretty sure for Dems overall that isn't their first concern or top issue. It only seemed that way because it was amplified by the right.

Me too. But it is on the radar of many middle Americans. Including many democrats who don’t want trans people on their daughters’ sports teams. It’s not an issue for me but I’m telling you it is an issue for the majority

It’s a trumped up issue and people who voted because of that issue are idiots, assuming they don’t want to live in a dictatorship. But maybe they do.

Kind of like women dying from lack of abortions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I just can’t understand how this happened. But after a few years we can try to get back to where we are and make things right again. Suffering lies ahead, but it will affect everyone and they will finally accept the truth.

Wow. You can't understand? You flat out refuse to do some reflection?

I'm an anti-Trump Harris voter who 100% understand how this happened. There were not enough voters who like me decided to vote solely on the issue of abortion (and not being able to stand Trump).

Had Roe not been overturned I would have voted Republican.

It's an "all of the above" to answer "how this happened" - yet you and most all Dems will continue to put your heads in the sand....and if you continue to deny the need for reflection the GOP will win again in 2028...unless you put forth a Dem who brings back the pendulum from the too far left.

Kind of doubt the bolded (as a double hater). I imagine we are in for a Congressional blue wave in 2026 in response to some sort of overreach, or possibly just the reality of Trump being Trump splashed all over the media for 2 solid years every single day...again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trumps win is a resounding one, no question about the results and the majority of voters. Is it time for dems to have a moment of reflection and time to stop pushing so hard to the left??

Or is it time we accept that US is fundamentally misogynistic and don’t float female candidates for president?

When Hilary ran, it was an eye opener for me - I thought however bad racism is here, the sexism is much worse. Now we have a president elect who is a convicted rapist and on video tape as saying he routinely sexually assaults women he finds attractive. He refers to female opponents in highly vulgar and vicious ways.

Now half of US states don’t have basic human reproductive rights. Maybe we do have to stop worrying about women in those states if they reelect the guy who orchestrated this fate for the .

Maybe Dems need to learn to suck up More to Billionaires in Big Tech?

I agree with you that Dems need to learn from this election but don’t think their agenda was particularly extreme.

He is not a convicted rapist (learn how our court system works). And, I'm sorry, her story was unbelievable.

He was found liable for sexual assault in a civil case. That's a fact that can't be denied. And, he is on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women.
You are in delusional denial. Trump won because of people like you who are in delusional denial.

It’s the difference between persecutions and prosecutions. Like it or not, voters saw these cases as the former.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

The fact that you think Americans going to the grocery store and reacting to what they see is a "propaganda machine" is part of your problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't overthink it. People *hate* inflation, and virtually everything else is an abstract. It doesn't matter that the Biden admin had relatively little to do with the inflation, that we had a soft landing, or that we have fared better than basically any other advanced economy. Those are all abstract ideas to voters too. It doesn't even matter that the rate of inflation has been nearly back to normal for a year. People simply hate inflation and want to punish politicians for it, the end.

Yep.
Plus good old fashioned racism and sexism.

+1000. people don't care about trans surgery for inmates when they have $ in the bank. Sadly they will have less of it now but they got what they asked for. How about dems do a study over the next four years on what Trump "improves" in all of the rural counties and then play the results in 2028 ads? If we have an election that is.

You do understand that as a country, we are borrowing a third of the dollars we spend at the federal level. At the state and local level, governments are struggling to pay for quality basic services like education and policing. Spending even one dollar on trans surgeries for inmates is unacceptable. Give them mental health care and move on.

Or we give full and universal healthcare to everyone, including their brains, eyes and teeth, whether inmates or not, on the premise that a healthy workforce is a productive and innovative workforce.

I'd prefer not, having spent a lot of time studying the NHS and other European systems. (And even with universal healthcare, choices have to be made. What services would you like to cut in order to help trans people cut off healthy body parts, with no resulting mental health benefits?

But thanks anyway...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trumps win is a resounding one, no question about the results and the majority of voters. Is it time for dems to have a moment of reflection and time to stop pushing so hard to the left??

Or is it time we accept that US is fundamentally misogynistic and don’t float female candidates for president?

When Hilary ran, it was an eye opener for me - I thought however bad racism is here, the sexism is much worse. Now we have a president elect who is a convicted rapist and on video tape as saying he routinely sexually assaults women he finds attractive. He refers to female opponents in highly vulgar and vicious ways.

Now half of US states don’t have basic human reproductive rights. Maybe we do have to stop worrying about women in those states if they reelect the guy who orchestrated this fate for the .

Maybe Dems need to learn to suck up More to Billionaires in Big Tech?

I agree with you that Dems need to learn from this election but don’t think their agenda was particularly extreme.

He is not a convicted rapist (learn how our court system works). And, I'm sorry, her story was unbelievable.

He was found liable for sexual assault in a civil case. That's a fact that can't be denied. And, he is on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women.
You are in delusional denial. Trump won because of people like you who are in delusional denial.

Which is not the same as being a convicted rapist. "A preponderance of the evidence" in New York City?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

Agreed. That and the “woke” stuff. My 70-year-old aunt is an extreme liberal and even she said that the Dems need to stop with this stuff if they want to win.

I’m 45 and as liberal as they come but 1) Hamas is a terrorist organization and 2) men aren’t women. (Trans people shouldn’t be persecuted, before someone jumps on me.)

Trump is a straw at which his voters grasp. Unfortunately he’s a fake and an idiot and will sell American intelligence for money.

So yeah. Depressing day.

When did the Dems come out in support of Hamas? You can't seriously be saying that it was the Dems support of Hamas that lost them the election.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Every major leader of Hamas has been killed (Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, many others). Yet every single day there are 50+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.

Palestinians do not equal Hamas.

Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed in Northern Gaza. That is a fact. It is shameful and a war crime.

Voters may have seen it differently. A large part of the far left wing was very sympathetic to Hamas, the center was hesitant to criticize Hamas for fear of the wrath of the progressives and some Michigan voters. Palestinian voters have kept Hamas in power so it’s hard for many people to be sympathetic to civilians who voted in terrorists. Plus, a lot of Americans just don’t like Muslims.

I don't think this was a major vote determiner for most people. Democrats and Republicans have similar stances on Israel, and Trumpers hate Jews as much as muslims. People believed that Trump would be good for the economy (he definitely won't be) and would stop immigrants at the border (he will, but it will be both inhumane and ultimately have a negative influence on the economy), and that he is somehow not an "elite" (he is a billionaire). Americans made a mistake, and that's all there is to it. Now we all have to live with the consequences of the stupidity of half the country. I guess that's democracy at work - and also maybe the end of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't overthink it. People *hate* inflation, and virtually everything else is an abstract. It doesn't matter that the Biden admin had relatively little to do with the inflation, that we had a soft landing, or that we have fared better than basically any other advanced economy. Those are all abstract ideas to voters too. It doesn't even matter that the rate of inflation has been nearly back to normal for a year. People simply hate inflation and want to punish politicians for it, the end.

Yep.
Plus good old fashioned racism and sexism.

+1000. people don't care about trans surgery for inmates when they have $ in the bank. Sadly they will have less of it now but they got what they asked for. How about dems do a study over the next four years on what Trump "improves" in all of the rural counties and then play the results in 2028 ads? If we have an election that is.

You do understand that as a country, we are borrowing a third of the dollars we spend at the federal level. At the state and local level, governments are struggling to pay for quality basic services like education and policing. Spending even one dollar on trans surgeries for inmates is unacceptable. Give them mental health care and move on.

Or we give full and universal healthcare to everyone, including their brains, eyes and teeth, whether inmates or not, on the premise that a healthy workforce is a productive and innovative workforce.

I'd prefer not, having spent a lot of time studying the NHS and other European systems. (And even with universal healthcare, choices have to be made. What services would you like to cut in order to help trans people cut off healthy body parts, with no resulting mental health benefits?

But thanks anyway...

I know people who died waiting for hospital beds in Canada. The choices in universal healthcare are approximately as unappetizing as the ones in our system, especially when the universal system is poorly run. Obviously there are better and worse countries to have your universal healthcare in, but given the overall health of the US population ours would definitely be one of the worse ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

You’ve never met a Trump voter in your life. Laughable that you think you have some unique insight. Where were you before today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

Agreed. That and the “woke” stuff. My 70-year-old aunt is an extreme liberal and even she said that the Dems need to stop with this stuff if they want to win.

I’m 45 and as liberal as they come but 1) Hamas is a terrorist organization and 2) men aren’t women. (Trans people shouldn’t be persecuted, before someone jumps on me.)

Trump is a straw at which his voters grasp. Unfortunately he’s a fake and an idiot and will sell American intelligence for money.

So yeah. Depressing day.

When did the Dems come out in support of Hamas? You can't seriously be saying that it was the Dems support of Hamas that lost them the election.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Every major leader of Hamas has been killed (Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, many others). Yet every single day there are 50+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.

Palestinians do not equal Hamas.

Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed in Northern Gaza. That is a fact. It is shameful and a war crime.

Voters may have seen it differently. A large part of the far left wing was very sympathetic to Hamas, the center was hesitant to criticize Hamas for fear of the wrath of the progressives and some Michigan voters. Palestinian voters have kept Hamas in power so it’s hard for many people to be sympathetic to civilians who voted in terrorists. Plus, a lot of Americans just don’t like Muslims.

I don't think this was a major vote determiner for most people. Democrats and Republicans have similar stances on Israel, and Trumpers hate Jews as much as muslims. People believed that Trump would be good for the economy (he definitely won't be) and would stop immigrants at the border (he will, but it will be both inhumane and ultimately have a negative influence on the economy), and that he is somehow not an "elite" (he is a billionaire). Americans made a mistake, and that's all there is to it. Now we all have to live with the consequences of the stupidity of half the country. I guess that's democracy at work - and also maybe the end of it.

See this is not reflection. This does not answer the question "What did possibly persuadable voters not like about what the Ds are doing?" I hate Trump. I voted for a Democrat down ballot, even, because he's somewhat moderate. But I couldn't vote for Harris. I agree with the CNN article on what went wrong - ultimately she was unwilling to say she'd govern any differently in the next 4 than Biden has in the past 4. I was unconvinced.