Time for reflection as a dem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

The fact that you think Americans going to the grocery store and reacting to what they see is a "propaganda machine" is part of your problem.

The propaganda machine is where someone like you thinks that the price of a carton of milk is the result of something the democrats did, and that Trump will fix it. It suggests you don't actually understand how the economy works. And I'm guessing you truly don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

Are you kidding? Listen to any news source (along with the Obamas and Harris) pushing story after story that are blatantly untrue (bloodbath; dictator on day one; very fine people; Russian collusion and on and on...)

And I don't have time to list all of the "fascist" actions taken by the Biden administration (and don't forget Obama's use of the Espionage Act against journalists.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

Agreed. That and the “woke” stuff. My 70-year-old aunt is an extreme liberal and even she said that the Dems need to stop with this stuff if they want to win.

I’m 45 and as liberal as they come but 1) Hamas is a terrorist organization and 2) men aren’t women. (Trans people shouldn’t be persecuted, before someone jumps on me.)

Trump is a straw at which his voters grasp. Unfortunately he’s a fake and an idiot and will sell American intelligence for money.

So yeah. Depressing day.

When did the Dems come out in support of Hamas? You can't seriously be saying that it was the Dems support of Hamas that lost them the election.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Every major leader of Hamas has been killed (Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, many others). Yet every single day there are 50+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.

Palestinians do not equal Hamas.

Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed in Northern Gaza. That is a fact. It is shameful and a war crime.

Voters may have seen it differently. A large part of the far left wing was very sympathetic to Hamas, the center was hesitant to criticize Hamas for fear of the wrath of the progressives and some Michigan voters. Palestinian voters have kept Hamas in power so it’s hard for many people to be sympathetic to civilians who voted in terrorists. Plus, a lot of Americans just don’t like Muslims.

I don't think this was a major vote determiner for most people. Democrats and Republicans have similar stances on Israel, and Trumpers hate Jews as much as muslims. People believed that Trump would be good for the economy (he definitely won't be) and would stop immigrants at the border (he will, but it will be both inhumane and ultimately have a negative influence on the economy), and that he is somehow not an "elite" (he is a billionaire). Americans made a mistake, and that's all there is to it. Now we all have to live with the consequences of the stupidity of half the country. I guess that's democracy at work - and also maybe the end of it.

See this is not reflection. This does not answer the question "What did possibly persuadable voters not like about what the Ds are doing?" I hate Trump. I voted for a Democrat down ballot, even, because he's somewhat moderate. But I couldn't vote for Harris. I agree with the CNN article on what went wrong - ultimately she was unwilling to say she'd govern any differently in the next 4 than Biden has in the past 4. I was unconvinced.

In my opinion, this makes you stupid. You're probably a nice person, but you're stupid. I'm sorry, but that's what I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

Are you kidding? Listen to any news source (along with the Obamas and Harris) pushing story after story that are blatantly untrue (bloodbath; dictator on day one; very fine people; Russian collusion and on and on...)

And I don't have time to list all of the "fascist" actions taken by the Biden administration (and don't forget Obama's use of the Espionage Act against journalists.)

You are just proving everything I said. You are repeating GOP and Trump talking points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe running an anti men campaign wasn't the best idea. What idiot actually approved the commercial where women were encouraged to deceive their husbands about their vote?
That's incredibly insulting to women and very offensive to men. I'm an independent that has voted for both parties in the past but that attitude is what pushed me to vote Republican this time.

This was big! Plus the Democrat party didn't even let us choose who we wanted to represent us. We just had Kamala pushed down our throats. They should have made the decision a lot sooner that Biden wasn't running and actually let us decide who we wanted

Now add in all the woke stuff that has run its course and people are finally fighting back against it and you have a recipe for a losing candidate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

The fact that you think Americans going to the grocery store and reacting to what they see is a "propaganda machine" is part of your problem.

The propaganda machine is where someone like you thinks that the price of a carton of milk is the result of something the democrats did, and that Trump will fix it. It suggests you don't actually understand how the economy works. And I'm guessing you truly don't.

I only know enough about the economy to know that it's complicated and that Presidents shouldn't get blamed for it (or credited for it) nearly as much as they do.

But the condescending rhetoric you're employing is part of the problem. And the media did their darnedest to say what I just said above. And it came across as "You idiot pleebs don't understand this isn't Biden's FAULT!" That messaging won't sell. Promise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

Agreed. That and the “woke” stuff. My 70-year-old aunt is an extreme liberal and even she said that the Dems need to stop with this stuff if they want to win.

I’m 45 and as liberal as they come but 1) Hamas is a terrorist organization and 2) men aren’t women. (Trans people shouldn’t be persecuted, before someone jumps on me.)

Trump is a straw at which his voters grasp. Unfortunately he’s a fake and an idiot and will sell American intelligence for money.

So yeah. Depressing day.

When did the Dems come out in support of Hamas? You can't seriously be saying that it was the Dems support of Hamas that lost them the election.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Every major leader of Hamas has been killed (Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, many others). Yet every single day there are 50+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.

Palestinians do not equal Hamas.

Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed in Northern Gaza. That is a fact. It is shameful and a war crime.

Voters may have seen it differently. A large part of the far left wing was very sympathetic to Hamas, the center was hesitant to criticize Hamas for fear of the wrath of the progressives and some Michigan voters. Palestinian voters have kept Hamas in power so it’s hard for many people to be sympathetic to civilians who voted in terrorists. Plus, a lot of Americans just don’t like Muslims.

I don't think this was a major vote determiner for most people. Democrats and Republicans have similar stances on Israel, and Trumpers hate Jews as much as muslims. People believed that Trump would be good for the economy (he definitely won't be) and would stop immigrants at the border (he will, but it will be both inhumane and ultimately have a negative influence on the economy), and that he is somehow not an "elite" (he is a billionaire). Americans made a mistake, and that's all there is to it. Now we all have to live with the consequences of the stupidity of half the country. I guess that's democracy at work - and also maybe the end of it.

See this is not reflection. This does not answer the question "What did possibly persuadable voters not like about what the Ds are doing?" I hate Trump. I voted for a Democrat down ballot, even, because he's somewhat moderate. But I couldn't vote for Harris. I agree with the CNN article on what went wrong - ultimately she was unwilling to say she'd govern any differently in the next 4 than Biden has in the past 4. I was unconvinced.

In my opinion, this makes you stupid. You're probably a nice person, but you're stupid. I'm sorry, but that's what I think.

That's cool.

[Anonymous]

When the principal policy plank of a party is to constantly and repeatedly disparage 30% of the country, it is going to be an uphill battle.

Perhaps you marketing geniuses out there can convince the DNC that there are better methods of getting your message across.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

The fact that you think Americans going to the grocery store and reacting to what they see is a "propaganda machine" is part of your problem.

The propaganda machine is where someone like you thinks that the price of a carton of milk is the result of something the democrats did, and that Trump will fix it. It suggests you don't actually understand how the economy works. And I'm guessing you truly don't.

I only know enough about the economy to know that it's complicated and that Presidents shouldn't get blamed for it (or credited for it) nearly as much as they do.

But the condescending rhetoric you're employing is part of the problem. And the media did their darnedest to say what I just said above. And it came across as "You idiot pleebs don't understand this isn't Biden's FAULT!" That messaging won't sell. Promise.

I completely agree and this is a real problem for well-off Democratic voters and people on the Hill. Some politicians like Sanders and even LBJ back in the day understood this. But this position gets a lot of nasty pushback.

[Anonymous]

The average American is a lot more moderate than the national democratic party.

The average person does not want boys in girls' bathrooms, locker rooms, and sports.

The average person does not want to defund the police.

The average person wants secured borders.

The Democratic party continues to stick their head in the sand and say anyone who disagrees is racist, sexist, transphobic, homophobic, etc etc. And maybe some of that is true.

But there's a big group of people who want common sense. They don't want trans kids to kill themselves, but they also don't want drag queens strutting half naked in elementary schools. They don't want immigrants in cages, but they also think 'catch and release' endangers our country. They don't want black teenagers in jail due to racist cops, but they are tired of watching habitual criminals face no consequences.

This thread is an excellent example of 'la la la,' plugging your ears, and pretending that nothing the democratic party did was wrong, everyone else is wrong, and no other human being could possibly have any values that don't reflect yours.

Dems lost HUGE swaths of previously democratic voters. SOMETHING is going on. Pay attention, for ONCE, instead of blaming the voters again and again and again. Look at California - 71% of CALIFORNIA voted 'Yes' for tough on crime policies. San Diego, LA, San Francisco - these big, blue, liberal cities, are TIRED of it. They don't hate their neighbors. They don't want homeless people shot in the street. But they're tired of cops telling them "there's nothing we can do" about human feces and needles on the sidewalks.

This is a global phenomenon. Look at the backlash in Canada, the backlash in Europe, against unfettered immigration. Look at the rise of conservative, far-right policies in otherwise very liberal, progressive countries. The average person is reaching a breaking point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

Agreed. That and the “woke” stuff. My 70-year-old aunt is an extreme liberal and even she said that the Dems need to stop with this stuff if they want to win.

I’m 45 and as liberal as they come but 1) Hamas is a terrorist organization and 2) men aren’t women. (Trans people shouldn’t be persecuted, before someone jumps on me.)

Trump is a straw at which his voters grasp. Unfortunately he’s a fake and an idiot and will sell American intelligence for money.

So yeah. Depressing day.

When did the Dems come out in support of Hamas? You can't seriously be saying that it was the Dems support of Hamas that lost them the election.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Every major leader of Hamas has been killed (Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, many others). Yet every single day there are 50+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.

Palestinians do not equal Hamas.

Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed in Northern Gaza. That is a fact. It is shameful and a war crime.

Voters may have seen it differently. A large part of the far left wing was very sympathetic to Hamas, the center was hesitant to criticize Hamas for fear of the wrath of the progressives and some Michigan voters. Palestinian voters have kept Hamas in power so it’s hard for many people to be sympathetic to civilians who voted in terrorists. Plus, a lot of Americans just don’t like Muslims.

Fact check.

The left wing was not sympathetic to Hamas. They were sympathetic to Palestinians. Sure, you can pull up some pro-Hamas photos or videos from protests. That was like 1% of the people who show up to these protests. There are always fringe crazies.

The center was not hesitant to criticize Hamas. There was plenty of criticism of Hamas from left, centrist, right, everybody.

Palestinians voted for Hamas in 2006. In one election. Once. Less than 25% of the current population of Gaza was even of voting age in 2006. Hamas won with 44% of the vote. So that's less than 10% of the current population that would have even voted for Hamas in that election.

And Palestinians did not "keep them in power". That was Netanyahu and his government who kept them in power and funding them because they preferred them to the Fatah alternative. These are all facts.

I blame the mainstream media for equating Hamas and Palestinians to the point that most Americans do not know the above facts and view all Palestinians as terrorists.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people who voted for Trump did so based on outright lies and a poor understanding of American government and world politics. Not because they actually align with his "platform," or even the GOP's previous platform, when they had a real one. People have been inundated by misinformation about the state of the country's economy, the state of the border, the impact of Trump era policies, and the effects of Biden era policies. I hear my own teenager parroting things that are patently false, but that he is hearing from every corner. Democrats need to do something to break through the propaganda machine and expose it for what it is. When they figure out how to do that, if it's not too late, they might finally have success. But when that happens, that's when a fascist like Trump will start jailing journalists and people who speak the truth. So maybe it's already too late.

I'm sorry but democrats don't have to do anything but sit back and watch. As another poster rightfully pointed out, liberals should pursue their own self interests unabashedly. People who believe on what we call disinformation actually know what they're doing . Those stories tell me what they want to hear and it will be foolish to waste valuable resources to go after people who are not interests in facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When the principal policy plank of a party is to constantly and repeatedly disparage 30% of the country, it is going to be an uphill battle.

Perhaps you marketing geniuses out there can convince the DNC that there are better methods of getting your message across.

Seems to be working out just fine for the GOP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The average American is a lot more moderate than the national democratic party.

The average person does not want boys in girls' bathrooms, locker rooms, and sports.

The average person does not want to defund the police.

The average person wants secured borders.

The Democratic party continues to stick their head in the sand and say anyone who disagrees is racist, sexist, transphobic, homophobic, etc etc. And maybe some of that is true.

But there's a big group of people who want common sense. They don't want trans kids to kill themselves, but they also don't want drag queens strutting half naked in elementary schools. They don't want immigrants in cages, but they also think 'catch and release' endangers our country. They don't want black teenagers in jail due to racist cops, but they are tired of watching habitual criminals face no consequences.

This thread is an excellent example of 'la la la,' plugging your ears, and pretending that nothing the democratic party did was wrong, everyone else is wrong, and no other human being could possibly have any values that don't reflect yours.

Dems lost HUGE swaths of previously democratic voters. SOMETHING is going on. Pay attention, for ONCE, instead of blaming the voters again and again and again. Look at California - 71% of CALIFORNIA voted 'Yes' for tough on crime policies. San Diego, LA, San Francisco - these big, blue, liberal cities, are TIRED of it. They don't hate their neighbors. They don't want homeless people shot in the street. But they're tired of cops telling them "there's nothing we can do" about human feces and needles on the sidewalks.

This is a global phenomenon. Look at the backlash in Canada, the backlash in Europe, against unfettered immigration. Look at the rise of conservative, far-right policies in otherwise very liberal, progressive countries. The average person is reaching a breaking point.

The average American is more moderate than democratic policies but not shy about embracing republican that are anything but moderate ? Yeah! I mean congrats on your win and enjoy the inevitable windfall but democrats owe you nothing .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the trans stuff that turns off older Dem voters.

Agreed. That and the “woke” stuff. My 70-year-old aunt is an extreme liberal and even she said that the Dems need to stop with this stuff if they want to win.

I’m 45 and as liberal as they come but 1) Hamas is a terrorist organization and 2) men aren’t women. (Trans people shouldn’t be persecuted, before someone jumps on me.)

Trump is a straw at which his voters grasp. Unfortunately he’s a fake and an idiot and will sell American intelligence for money.

So yeah. Depressing day.

When did the Dems come out in support of Hamas? You can't seriously be saying that it was the Dems support of Hamas that lost them the election.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Every major leader of Hamas has been killed (Sinwar, Haniyeh, Deif, many others). Yet every single day there are 50+ Palestinians killed in Gaza.

Palestinians do not equal Hamas.

Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed in Northern Gaza. That is a fact. It is shameful and a war crime.

Voters may have seen it differently. A large part of the far left wing was very sympathetic to Hamas, the center was hesitant to criticize Hamas for fear of the wrath of the progressives and some Michigan voters. Palestinian voters have kept Hamas in power so it’s hard for many people to be sympathetic to civilians who voted in terrorists. Plus, a lot of Americans just don’t like Muslims.

I don't think this was a major vote determiner for most people. Democrats and Republicans have similar stances on Israel, and Trumpers hate Jews as much as muslims. People believed that Trump would be good for the economy (he definitely won't be) and would stop immigrants at the border (he will, but it will be both inhumane and ultimately have a negative influence on the economy), and that he is somehow not an "elite" (he is a billionaire). Americans made a mistake, and that's all there is to it. Now we all have to live with the consequences of the stupidity of half the country. I guess that's democracy at work - and also maybe the end of it.

See this is not reflection. This does not answer the question "What did possibly persuadable voters not like about what the Ds are doing?" I hate Trump. I voted for a Democrat down ballot, even, because he's somewhat moderate. But I couldn't vote for Harris. I agree with the CNN article on what went wrong - ultimately she was unwilling to say she'd govern any differently in the next 4 than Biden has in the past 4. I was unconvinced.

In my opinion, this makes you stupid. You're probably a nice person, but you're stupid. I'm sorry, but that's what I think.

+1 nothing more dangerous than a stupid person who thinks they're smart.