If we defeat Trump, can we get the normal Republican party back please? Which Republicans have stood up to him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same, tbh. I’m embarrassed by the MAGA crowd. Make politics boring again. Too many wannabe social media stars in office just trying to say outrageous things to go viral instead of actually helping their constituents.

yup get rid of the shock jocks, ann coulter types, rogan/shapiro/tate et al. and give me a thought leader to rep center right normalcy please.

colin powell, condeleeza rice, george h bush, mitt romney, etc.

Ah yes, the good ole days of Bushitler: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bushitler

I guess Hitler isn't so bad now?

Just because the Dems have been saying terrible things about every Republican for decades now doesn't mean the party has to live down to their impression.

As a friend said when we all woke up after the Iowa caucuses in 2015, for years the media has been saying this is who Republicans are and I didn't believe them because I didn't know any Republicans like that. But now I'm not so sure.

Or it means Democrats just hate whoever is currently standing in their way, and rehabilitate them once they are no longer in the way. Give it 10 years and Democrats will be decrying the current Hitler and praising Trump. Its in the nature of being an NPC.

There is zero chance anyone (even current republicans) will be rehabilitating Trump's image in a decade or a century.

I’m old enough to remember people carrying posters of GWB looking like Hitler during protests of the Iraq War and liberal commentators calling GWB and Cheney fascist war criminals ad nauseam. Now Harris is parading Cheney’s daughter across the country and celebrating Dick Cheney’s endorsement.

And in hindsight, they were right. there was no reason to start a war in Iraq given the lies that "justified" it.

What was your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had been a lifelong Republican, but I've voted Democrat the last 2 presidential elections, since Trump was nominee. And I will vote for Harris this time.

I miss the normal Republican party - not this cult party we have now with a man of zero character and leadership remaking it in his own image. I know every politician spins and deflects to some extent, but Trump's incessant and compulsive lying is next level. His disrespect for the Constitution and America is disqualifying.

Which brave Republicans have risked being on Trump's retribution/enemies list to say "don't vote for this man" and that they are not voting for him? I want to remember and celebrate them.

The only way to get the normal Republican party back is if we defeat Trump (for the second time) definitively.

Who else wants the normal, sane, rational Republican party back? This dystopian alt-right cult version is unrecognizable and disturbing.

A healthy and strong GOP Party will lead to a more healthy and stronger Dem Party and we all would benefit if our two major parties were functioning like they were back when our choices for POTUS were people like GHWB and Clinton and Congress was able to put their partisan squabbles aside long enough to function adequately . As it is, there is no equating the two major parties during the Trump era but the Dem Party establishment has shot themselves in the foot over and over by trying to manipulate things to where they are assured of nominating a candidate that the base and donors approve of so not to rock the boat while at the same time being just good enough to beat Trump. Just good enough to beat the most awful candidate in American history is not good enough.

For the GOP it's much simpler. They went from a solid history of nominating decent and well qualified people 95% of the country could respect even if they disagreed with policy to nominating Trump for three consecutive elections. How do you go from Reagan, the Bushs, Dole, McCain, and Romney to three consecutive nominations of Trump? It's not the same party it used to be but it's still feasible for the sensible majority in the party to return back to party of Lincoln, Teddy R, Eisenhower, and Reagan after Trump is dead or incapacitated.

The congress was functioning fine until Newt started the process of total obstinance and government shutdowns rather than compromise.

Again, don't blame the democrats for this. The Dems have never supported government shutdowns.

Not equating the two "sides" but your fooling yourself if you think it's one party that is responsible for all the political games that lead to a poorly functioning government. Newt's cut throat political style was a game changer and that movement along with social media and cable news exploding led to division in politics like we've never seen before.

What did the democrats do to change rules that lead us to where we are (and don't ascribe changing the filibuster that Reid did because McConnnell refused to allow Obama appointments through to the point the Chief Justice had to beg the Senate to change to rules before the judicial branch collapsed)

Not equating two sides here. There is fair blame to be cast at who started certain things first. This doesn't change the fact that our two parties have used their power to evolve into entities that are now too big to fail as rules have been put into place to make a 3rd party emergence nearly impossible. This gives the flexibility to play political games that only serve to benefit them during election cycles and not to serve in manner that is helpful to the American people.

Case in point- the Biden Administration along with Congress could have and should have pushed the border bill proposes last year much sooner. They chose to wait until election season knowing that it was unlikely the GOP would allow it to pass and therefore they could use that as a campaign tool to offset doing nothing to improve the situation at the border for the first two years of Biden's presidency and they can fairly say accuse the GOP of not passing a bill that would have been helpful. That's a political game that does nothing to help our country but it does it help Dems in re-election bids. There is no recourse for such political games because they have no fear of the American people saying we've had enough and ditching them for a 3rd party.

Republicans pushed the Citizens United decision allowing money to become a much bigger influence in politics. Blame them for that. This being said; both parties have played the money game and it's both parties who are now forced to prioritize the interest of their big money donors as opposed to the prioritizing the interest of all Americans. Again, very little we can now do to change that. It is what it is.

So you cite the GOP authored border bill as should have been pushed sooner as a means of both-siding. the only reason that bill didnt pass is Trump.

So in other words, there is nothing you can cite that shows the democrats changing the rules or otherwise altering "norms" since 1992 to cause us to be where we are now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same, tbh. I’m embarrassed by the MAGA crowd. Make politics boring again. Too many wannabe social media stars in office just trying to say outrageous things to go viral instead of actually helping their constituents.

yup get rid of the shock jocks, ann coulter types, rogan/shapiro/tate et al. and give me a thought leader to rep center right normalcy please.

colin powell, condeleeza rice, george h bush, mitt romney, etc.

Ah yes, the good ole days of Bushitler: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bushitler

I guess Hitler isn't so bad now?

Just because the Dems have been saying terrible things about every Republican for decades now doesn't mean the party has to live down to their impression.

As a friend said when we all woke up after the Iowa caucuses in 2015, for years the media has been saying this is who Republicans are and I didn't believe them because I didn't know any Republicans like that. But now I'm not so sure.

Trump didn't win the Iowa caucuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had been a lifelong Republican, but I've voted Democrat the last 2 presidential elections, since Trump was nominee. And I will vote for Harris this time.

I miss the normal Republican party - not this cult party we have now with a man of zero character and leadership remaking it in his own image. I know every politician spins and deflects to some extent, but Trump's incessant and compulsive lying is next level. His disrespect for the Constitution and America is disqualifying.

Which brave Republicans have risked being on Trump's retribution/enemies list to say "don't vote for this man" and that they are not voting for him? I want to remember and celebrate them.

The only way to get the normal Republican party back is if we defeat Trump (for the second time) definitively.

Who else wants the normal, sane, rational Republican party back? This dystopian alt-right cult version is unrecognizable and disturbing.

A healthy and strong GOP Party will lead to a more healthy and stronger Dem Party and we all would benefit if our two major parties were functioning like they were back when our choices for POTUS were people like GHWB and Clinton and Congress was able to put their partisan squabbles aside long enough to function adequately . As it is, there is no equating the two major parties during the Trump era but the Dem Party establishment has shot themselves in the foot over and over by trying to manipulate things to where they are assured of nominating a candidate that the base and donors approve of so not to rock the boat while at the same time being just good enough to beat Trump. Just good enough to beat the most awful candidate in American history is not good enough.

For the GOP it's much simpler. They went from a solid history of nominating decent and well qualified people 95% of the country could respect even if they disagreed with policy to nominating Trump for three consecutive elections. How do you go from Reagan, the Bushs, Dole, McCain, and Romney to three consecutive nominations of Trump? It's not the same party it used to be but it's still feasible for the sensible majority in the party to return back to party of Lincoln, Teddy R, Eisenhower, and Reagan after Trump is dead or incapacitated.

The congress was functioning fine until Newt started the process of total obstinance and government shutdowns rather than compromise.

Again, don't blame the democrats for this. The Dems have never supported government shutdowns.

That's because they are the party of government and government workers unions support Democrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had been a lifelong Republican, but I've voted Democrat the last 2 presidential elections, since Trump was nominee. And I will vote for Harris this time.

I miss the normal Republican party - not this cult party we have now with a man of zero character and leadership remaking it in his own image. I know every politician spins and deflects to some extent, but Trump's incessant and compulsive lying is next level. His disrespect for the Constitution and America is disqualifying.

Which brave Republicans have risked being on Trump's retribution/enemies list to say "don't vote for this man" and that they are not voting for him? I want to remember and celebrate them.

The only way to get the normal Republican party back is if we defeat Trump (for the second time) definitively.

Who else wants the normal, sane, rational Republican party back? This dystopian alt-right cult version is unrecognizable and disturbing.

A healthy and strong GOP Party will lead to a more healthy and stronger Dem Party and we all would benefit if our two major parties were functioning like they were back when our choices for POTUS were people like GHWB and Clinton and Congress was able to put their partisan squabbles aside long enough to function adequately . As it is, there is no equating the two major parties during the Trump era but the Dem Party establishment has shot themselves in the foot over and over by trying to manipulate things to where they are assured of nominating a candidate that the base and donors approve of so not to rock the boat while at the same time being just good enough to beat Trump. Just good enough to beat the most awful candidate in American history is not good enough.

For the GOP it's much simpler. They went from a solid history of nominating decent and well qualified people 95% of the country could respect even if they disagreed with policy to nominating Trump for three consecutive elections. How do you go from Reagan, the Bushs, Dole, McCain, and Romney to three consecutive nominations of Trump? It's not the same party it used to be but it's still feasible for the sensible majority in the party to return back to party of Lincoln, Teddy R, Eisenhower, and Reagan after Trump is dead or incapacitated.

The congress was functioning fine until Newt started the process of total obstinance and government shutdowns rather than compromise.

Again, don't blame the democrats for this. The Dems have never supported government shutdowns.

Not equating the two "sides" but your fooling yourself if you think it's one party that is responsible for all the political games that lead to a poorly functioning government. Newt's cut throat political style was a game changer and that movement along with social media and cable news exploding led to division in politics like we've never seen before.

What did the democrats do to change rules that lead us to where we are (and don't ascribe changing the filibuster that Reid did because McConnnell refused to allow Obama appointments through to the point the Chief Justice had to beg the Senate to change to rules before the judicial branch collapsed)

Not equating two sides here. There is fair blame to be cast at who started certain things first. This doesn't change the fact that our two parties have used their power to evolve into entities that are now too big to fail as rules have been put into place to make a 3rd party emergence nearly impossible. This gives the flexibility to play political games that only serve to benefit them during election cycles and not to serve in manner that is helpful to the American people.

Case in point- the Biden Administration along with Congress could have and should have pushed the border bill proposes last year much sooner. They chose to wait until election season knowing that it was unlikely the GOP would allow it to pass and therefore they could use that as a campaign tool to offset doing nothing to improve the situation at the border for the first two years of Biden's presidency and they can fairly say accuse the GOP of not passing a bill that would have been helpful. That's a political game that does nothing to help our country but it does it help Dems in re-election bids. There is no recourse for such political games because they have no fear of the American people saying we've had enough and ditching them for a 3rd party.

Republicans pushed the Citizens United decision allowing money to become a much bigger influence in politics. Blame them for that. This being said; both parties have played the money game and it's both parties who are now forced to prioritize the interest of their big money donors as opposed to the prioritizing the interest of all Americans. Again, very little we can now do to change that. It is what it is.

So you cite the GOP authored border bill as should have been pushed sooner as a means of both-siding. the only reason that bill didnt pass is Trump.

So in other words, there is nothing you can cite that shows the democrats changing the rules or otherwise altering "norms" since 1992 to cause us to be where we are now.

DP. No new bill is needed. Enforce the border laws already in place. They've been in place since the mid 1990s. Worked fine as long as you enforce the laws and don't ignore them because you want more democrat voters.

Why should we have new legislation? So you can ignore that also when you run the executive branch?

What's the point of having ANY laws if you will just selectively enforce the ones you like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
What did the democrats do to change rules that lead us to where we are (and don't ascribe changing the filibuster that Reid did because McConnnell refused to allow Obama appointments through to the point the Chief Justice had to beg the Senate to change to rules before the judicial branch collapsed)

Harry Reid stopped allowing Republicans to put up amendments to bills(filling the tree). This is what led to the confirmations blocks that led to the filibuster rules changes, that led to the filibuster rules changes for the Supreme Court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had been a lifelong Republican, but I've voted Democrat the last 2 presidential elections, since Trump was nominee. And I will vote for Harris this time.

I miss the normal Republican party - not this cult party we have now with a man of zero character and leadership remaking it in his own image. I know every politician spins and deflects to some extent, but Trump's incessant and compulsive lying is next level. His disrespect for the Constitution and America is disqualifying.

Which brave Republicans have risked being on Trump's retribution/enemies list to say "don't vote for this man" and that they are not voting for him? I want to remember and celebrate them.

The only way to get the normal Republican party back is if we defeat Trump (for the second time) definitively.

Who else wants the normal, sane, rational Republican party back? This dystopian alt-right cult version is unrecognizable and disturbing.

A healthy and strong GOP Party will lead to a more healthy and stronger Dem Party and we all would benefit if our two major parties were functioning like they were back when our choices for POTUS were people like GHWB and Clinton and Congress was able to put their partisan squabbles aside long enough to function adequately . As it is, there is no equating the two major parties during the Trump era but the Dem Party establishment has shot themselves in the foot over and over by trying to manipulate things to where they are assured of nominating a candidate that the base and donors approve of so not to rock the boat while at the same time being just good enough to beat Trump. Just good enough to beat the most awful candidate in American history is not good enough.

For the GOP it's much simpler. They went from a solid history of nominating decent and well qualified people 95% of the country could respect even if they disagreed with policy to nominating Trump for three consecutive elections. How do you go from Reagan, the Bushs, Dole, McCain, and Romney to three consecutive nominations of Trump? It's not the same party it used to be but it's still feasible for the sensible majority in the party to return back to party of Lincoln, Teddy R, Eisenhower, and Reagan after Trump is dead or incapacitated.

The congress was functioning fine until Newt started the process of total obstinance and government shutdowns rather than compromise.

Again, don't blame the democrats for this. The Dems have never supported government shutdowns.

Not equating the two "sides" but your fooling yourself if you think it's one party that is responsible for all the political games that lead to a poorly functioning government. Newt's cut throat political style was a game changer and that movement along with social media and cable news exploding led to division in politics like we've never seen before.

What did the democrats do to change rules that lead us to where we are (and don't ascribe changing the filibuster that Reid did because McConnnell refused to allow Obama appointments through to the point the Chief Justice had to beg the Senate to change to rules before the judicial branch collapsed)

You want the right wing (but Never Trumper) case for what the D's did to get us here? No one better than Jonah Goldberg: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/democrats-and-republicans-weaponizing-democratic-norms/

For Obama, and for millions of liberals, Trump is the fruition of years of right-wing perfidy. Obama has more of a point than many of my colleagues on the right care to admit.

For instance, I never subscribed to the “birther” conspiracy theory that Trump exploited to such effect, but I failed to appreciate the damage being done by letting it fester.

But Obama also has a massive blind spot that many on the left share. The tit-for-tat dynamic of norm-breaking goes back decades, and Obama has played his part.

When running for president in 2008 and 2012, Obama let his lieutenants demonize John McCain and Mitt Romney as racists.

In office, Obama violated not just democratic norms but also his constitutional oath by effectively granting amnesty to millions of immigrants living in the country illegally despite having insisted that he did not have the power to do so.

And although Obama was passionate in criticizing Trump’s attacks on the news media, his administration was far from pure in this regard.

On both sides, our democratic norms aren’t being destroyed so much as turned into cudgels. It’s as if a rage virus from a sci-fi movie has broken out and people are grabbing anything — staplers, coffee mugs, chairs — that can be used as a weapon.

What’s being weaponized in the current crisis are the tools that leaders are normally entrusted to protect: the rules, informal and formal, that should bind everyone. Partisans are breaking them over their knees like pool cues, ever confident that someone else started it.

By "no one better" I mean "If you think his argument is bunk, you'll think any argument is bunk."

I'm pretty sure he or David French made a similar argument, with more detail, somewhere in The Dispatch but I can't find it and it's probably paywalled.

[Anonymous]

None of those things are "structural" the way the GOP has changed the norms on the Hill.

[Anonymous]

Truman said Dewey was like Hitler.
Republicans Reagan and Bush were demonized, and later Democrats said the current guy is worse than them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Course you want McCain and Romney back. They lost.

^^^ DING DING DING ^^^


Dems LOVE loser republicans.

Isn't Trump a LOSER too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Course you want McCain and Romney back. They lost.

^^^ DING DING DING ^^^


Dems LOVE loser republicans.

Isn't Trump a LOSER too?

He beat Hillary, and we will find out soon enough if he can beat Kamala.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Course you want McCain and Romney back. They lost.

^^^ DING DING DING ^^^


Dems LOVE loser republicans.

Isn't Trump a LOSER too?

He beat Hillary, and we will find out soon enough if he can beat Kamala.

You missed one

Dementia?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Course you want McCain and Romney back. They lost.

^^^ DING DING DING ^^^


Dems LOVE loser republicans.

Isn't Trump a LOSER too?

He beat Hillary, and we will find out soon enough if he can beat Kamala.

You missed one

Dementia?

Biden beat Trump in 2020, but Biden’s advancing dementia was so apparent in the single Biden-Trump debate, that the democrats forced Joe to drop out as their 2024 candidate and replaced him with Kamala. In retrospect, that was probably a mistake. It seems a cognitively challenged Biden is a superior candidate to a younger airhead like KH. She’s all brat no cattle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had been a lifelong Republican, but I've voted Democrat the last 2 presidential elections, since Trump was nominee. And I will vote for Harris this time.

I miss the normal Republican party - not this cult party we have now with a man of zero character and leadership remaking it in his own image. I know every politician spins and deflects to some extent, but Trump's incessant and compulsive lying is next level. His disrespect for the Constitution and America is disqualifying.

Which brave Republicans have risked being on Trump's retribution/enemies list to say "don't vote for this man" and that they are not voting for him? I want to remember and celebrate them.

The only way to get the normal Republican party back is if we defeat Trump (for the second time) definitively.

Who else wants the normal, sane, rational Republican party back? This dystopian alt-right cult version is unrecognizable and disturbing.

A healthy and strong GOP Party will lead to a more healthy and stronger Dem Party and we all would benefit if our two major parties were functioning like they were back when our choices for POTUS were people like GHWB and Clinton and Congress was able to put their partisan squabbles aside long enough to function adequately . As it is, there is no equating the two major parties during the Trump era but the Dem Party establishment has shot themselves in the foot over and over by trying to manipulate things to where they are assured of nominating a candidate that the base and donors approve of so not to rock the boat while at the same time being just good enough to beat Trump. Just good enough to beat the most awful candidate in American history is not good enough.

For the GOP it's much simpler. They went from a solid history of nominating decent and well qualified people 95% of the country could respect even if they disagreed with policy to nominating Trump for three consecutive elections. How do you go from Reagan, the Bushs, Dole, McCain, and Romney to three consecutive nominations of Trump? It's not the same party it used to be but it's still feasible for the sensible majority in the party to return back to party of Lincoln, Teddy R, Eisenhower, and Reagan after Trump is dead or incapacitated.

The congress was functioning fine until Newt started the process of total obstinance and government shutdowns rather than compromise.

Again, don't blame the democrats for this. The Dems have never supported government shutdowns.

Not equating the two "sides" but your fooling yourself if you think it's one party that is responsible for all the political games that lead to a poorly functioning government. Newt's cut throat political style was a game changer and that movement along with social media and cable news exploding led to division in politics like we've never seen before.

What did the democrats do to change rules that lead us to where we are (and don't ascribe changing the filibuster that Reid did because McConnnell refused to allow Obama appointments through to the point the Chief Justice had to beg the Senate to change to rules before the judicial branch collapsed)

You want the right wing (but Never Trumper) case for what the D's did to get us here? No one better than Jonah Goldberg: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/democrats-and-republicans-weaponizing-democratic-norms/

For Obama, and for millions of liberals, Trump is the fruition of years of right-wing perfidy. Obama has more of a point than many of my colleagues on the right care to admit.

For instance, I never subscribed to the “birther” conspiracy theory that Trump exploited to such effect, but I failed to appreciate the damage being done by letting it fester.

But Obama also has a massive blind spot that many on the left share. The tit-for-tat dynamic of norm-breaking goes back decades, and Obama has played his part.

When running for president in 2008 and 2012, Obama let his lieutenants demonize John McCain and Mitt Romney as racists.

In office, Obama violated not just democratic norms but also his constitutional oath by effectively granting amnesty to millions of immigrants living in the country illegally despite having insisted that he did not have the power to do so.

And although Obama was passionate in criticizing Trump’s attacks on the news media, his administration was far from pure in this regard.

On both sides, our democratic norms aren’t being destroyed so much as turned into cudgels. It’s as if a rage virus from a sci-fi movie has broken out and people are grabbing anything — staplers, coffee mugs, chairs — that can be used as a weapon.

What’s being weaponized in the current crisis are the tools that leaders are normally entrusted to protect: the rules, informal and formal, that should bind everyone. Partisans are breaking them over their knees like pool cues, ever confident that someone else started it.

By "no one better" I mean "If you think his argument is bunk, you'll think any argument is bunk."

I'm pretty sure he or David French made a similar argument, with more detail, somewhere in The Dispatch but I can't find it and it's probably paywalled.

What I'm getting from this is that these people think Democrats have to be perfect while allowing Republicans to run rampant, because otherwise Republicans will get even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Truman said Dewey was like Hitler.
Republicans Reagan and Bush were demonized, and later Democrats said the current guy is worse than them.

Obama has been demonized for years. Hillary was demonized. Biden was demonized. Even going farther back - Carter was demonized. Gore was demonized. Didn't seem to bother the likes of you.