How do you do it all?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not sustainable without a nanny or having kids in all day and extended day arrangements. We’ve been trying it for 4 years with no help and I’m about to start winding down with a plan to stay home again. It’s sad that part time work arrangements seem almost impossible to find.

I’ve worked 8:30-5:30 for 25+ years. Drop kids at daycare or school and then picked them up for 20yrs. It is sustainable when you don’t have any other choice. Plenty of people do this every day.

Surely you had them in extended care if you didn’t leave work until 5:30? Which is what the person you’re replying to said.

Right but what's wrong with having your children in a care situation while you are at work all day? Before Covid, everyone I know did this. Now people question it. The majority of this country has their kids in school/childcare and works in person. It is what it is. Most people cannot afford all of this extra help like nannies, housekeepers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not sustainable without a nanny or having kids in all day and extended day arrangements. We’ve been trying it for 4 years with no help and I’m about to start winding down with a plan to stay home again. It’s sad that part time work arrangements seem almost impossible to find.

I’ve worked 8:30-5:30 for 25+ years. Drop kids at daycare or school and then picked them up for 20yrs. It is sustainable when you don’t have any other choice. Plenty of people do this every day.

So your kids spent like 8-6 in childcare? I get it is sustainable (probably with some negative side effects) if you have no other choice, but I think most people (especially now that workplaces are offering more flexibility) do not aspire to this lifestyle.And I especially can’t imagine kids of a former SAHM transitioning to this well.

Yes I did. They were in daycare from 8-6pm. I switched teaching jobs and then they were in before/aftercare from 7-5pm through ES. In MS and HS, they just hung out at school until I picked them up. There are many jobs where working from home is not a possibility.

And again, most people in this country do no have many choices. If I stayed home and my ex left me, I'd have to do this. The kids would have to adjust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After care and work from home (to the extent possible). We’ve managed to go without a nanny/Au pair for several years because of aftercare, and we are not at all alone. Sometimes my kids whine about it, and sometimes I pick them up early just because. But overall I don’t think the long day at school is that bad. My kids get their homework done in aftercare and they have friends to hang out with. Easy dinners, even having my junior chef children cook them sometimes. Having a nanny/Au pair was on balance more trouble than doing it “all” but I’m also not good at managing people and am an introvert.

Makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not sustainable without a nanny or having kids in all day and extended day arrangements. We’ve been trying it for 4 years with no help and I’m about to start winding down with a plan to stay home again. It’s sad that part time work arrangements seem almost impossible to find.

I’ve worked 8:30-5:30 for 25+ years. Drop kids at daycare or school and then picked them up for 20yrs. It is sustainable when you don’t have any other choice. Plenty of people do this every day.

So your kids spent like 8-6 in childcare? I get it is sustainable (probably with some negative side effects) if you have no other choice, but I think most people (especially now that workplaces are offering more flexibility) do not aspire to this lifestyle.And I especially can’t imagine kids of a former SAHM transitioning to this well.

Yes I did. They were in daycare from 8-6pm. I switched teaching jobs and then they were in before/aftercare from 7-5pm through ES. In MS and HS, they just hung out at school until I picked them up. There are many jobs where working from home is not a possibility.

And again, most people in this country do no have many choices. If I stayed home and my ex left me, I'd have to do this. The kids would have to adjust.

Yes. The ex leaving the wife/partner high and dry is a huge problem in this country. Women need to protect themselves from this.

[Anonymous]

As a FSO I have no qualms in saying that many FSOs (men especially) seem to specialize in pretending, including and often especially to their spouses, that they are far more important than they actually are and that their time is more valuable than others’….it’s a stark contrast with DCUM-land where even a GS-15 (FS-1 equivalent) is often considered to be the more flexible/default parental role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a FSO I have no qualms in saying that many FSOs (men especially) seem to specialize in pretending, including and often especially to their spouses, that they are far more important than they actually are and that their time is more valuable than others’….it’s a stark contrast with DCUM-land where even a GS-15 (FS-1 equivalent) is often considered to be the more flexible/default parental role.

Also an FSO and I definitely agree with this male inflated ego issue. But, that said, there are many DC jobs which are not very flexible at all, especially some of the regional bureaus. I've had jobs where I had to suddenly come in on the weened to draft paper, extended hours planning for special events/VIP visits, etc. And these are not even FS-1 jobs, but equivalent of like GS-13. Certainly some State bureaus are becoming better at work-life balance but many offices (and supervisors) have a long way to go.

Additionally, it's rare that an FS trailing spouse would be able to maintain the sort of high-powered, well-paid, big deal job that DCUM breadwinners seem to have. Usually because of the moves and career disruption, the trailing spouse's career does tend to be the more part-time or flexible one in the family.

[Anonymous]

Three kids -5,3,1 - and no family help. FT nanny (45 hours per week), house cleaning every other week, and I am FT remote and cover the 14 or so hours when our nanny is not working and my husband is working during the week by myself in addition to taking care of most household, kid, and all pet-related things during the workday. We will probably have a FT nanny until our youngest is 5 and even then will still pay for PT childcare help for 20 hours per week. We stick up at Costco monthly and order grocery pick up at Whole Foods. Dinner is homemade pizza, Annie’s Mac and cheese with peas, prepared soup, or beef or fish tacos. I plan activities a season or two in advance to prevent too many scheduling issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After care and work from home (to the extent possible). We’ve managed to go without a nanny/Au pair for several years because of aftercare, and we are not at all alone. Sometimes my kids whine about it, and sometimes I pick them up early just because. But overall I don’t think the long day at school is that bad. My kids get their homework done in aftercare and they have friends to hang out with. Easy dinners, even having my junior chef children cook them sometimes. Having a nanny/Au pair was on balance more trouble than doing it “all” but I’m also not good at managing people and am an introvert.

Makes sense.

Nanny is very different from au pair. The latter is living with you and not experienced in childcare. I love our nanny. She has great boundaries and is amazing with our kids. I would expect a lot less from an au pair and wouldn’t use an au pair if my kids were young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a FSO I have no qualms in saying that many FSOs (men especially) seem to specialize in pretending, including and often especially to their spouses, that they are far more important than they actually are and that their time is more valuable than others’….it’s a stark contrast with DCUM-land where even a GS-15 (FS-1 equivalent) is often considered to be the more flexible/default parental role.

Also an FSO and I definitely agree with this male inflated ego issue. But, that said, there are many DC jobs which are not very flexible at all, especially some of the regional bureaus. I've had jobs where I had to suddenly come in on the weened to draft paper, extended hours planning for special events/VIP visits, etc. And these are not even FS-1 jobs, but equivalent of like GS-13. Certainly some State bureaus are becoming better at work-life balance but many offices (and supervisors) have a long way to go.

Additionally, it's rare that an FS trailing spouse would be able to maintain the sort of high-powered, well-paid, big deal job that DCUM breadwinners seem to have. Usually because of the moves and career disruption, the trailing spouse's career does tend to be the more part-time or flexible one in the family.

Pp here and I agree that there are definitely days/periods of inflexibility for most regional bureau jobs, but as others have suggested that’s where the give and take comes in. It’s almost certainly not the case that op’s husband has zero flexibility to ever be the one to take time off to care for a sick child or take them to a medical appointment or activity, despite what he may want her to believe.

Regarding your latter point, agree completely regarding the challenges of career disruption but from the initial post it sounds like for whatever reason op doesn’t anticipate that their family will have overseas postings for the foreseeable future so it makes more sense to prioritize her establishing a career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two working parents with no remote options and three kids, two of whom have special needs which greatly increases the amount of appointments. No family help and only paid help was an every other housecleaner which we didn’t have until all kids were school aged.

You do it by being organized. You plan ahead. You schedule appointments well in advance and as many as possible on the same day. You guard your leave time from work so you can get the necessities done. You make simple meals from the menu you preplanned. And you get things ready for the week on Sunday - packing lunches, laying out clothes for the week, etc.

Aftercare helps with some things, like homework. And they fed my kids so no one came home starving and cranky.

And you make sure no one in the family has ADHD, especially you.

PP here. Actually two kids with ADHD. it actually made my house run more efficiently because we had to be super organized and live with a lot of rules. To this day, no one would even think about leaving something laying around instead of putting it where it belongs. They even tell their friends where to put things when they come over.

And even though mine were in daycare, I felt like we had lots of time together every day except the first few months of kindergarten for my youngest. Maybe mine didn’t sleep as much as other people’s did.

[Anonymous]

Spend this weekend making up a spreadsheet of ALL THE THINGS you can imagine that need to be handled — laundry, groceries, pharmacy, cooking, each cleaning task, managing finances, cars, the yard, sick days for kids, doctors appointments, camp registration, and on and on.

Ask your husband to sit down with you. Write down the hours he typically works. Write down how his PTO works. Assume you have a 9-5 schedule with commuting. Map out the hours in a one week period and figure out how it all gets done with each of your “free time.” Like will he grocery shop at 9pm every Tuesday? Will you work out at 5am? Will he chop all the veggies while you both batch cook on the weekend? And if he basically looks at you with a blank stare like he cannot possibly participate in any of this, really think about why you are going back to work.

And ALL THESE MEN who claim to be SO VERY IMPORTANT for every meeting in their office are usually lying. Frankly, the more senior you are, the more flexibility you should have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Spend this weekend making up a spreadsheet of ALL THE THINGS you can imagine that need to be handled — laundry, groceries, pharmacy, cooking, each cleaning task, managing finances, cars, the yard, sick days for kids, doctors appointments, camp registration, and on and on.

Ask your husband to sit down with you. Write down the hours he typically works. Write down how his PTO works. Assume you have a 9-5 schedule with commuting. Map out the hours in a one week period and figure out how it all gets done with each of your “free time.” Like will he grocery shop at 9pm every Tuesday? Will you work out at 5am? Will he chop all the veggies while you both batch cook on the weekend? And if he basically looks at you with a blank stare like he cannot possibly participate in any of this, really think about why you are going back to work.

And ALL THESE MEN who claim to be SO VERY IMPORTANT for every meeting in their office are usually lying. Frankly, the more senior you are, the more flexibility you should have.

This. It is a math problem. You need to really force him to grapple with it in detail.

But don't be surprised if you have some major disagreements over what is essential vs. nonessential. He will try to say things aren't important and in his head, they are your leisure activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spend this weekend making up a spreadsheet of ALL THE THINGS you can imagine that need to be handled — laundry, groceries, pharmacy, cooking, each cleaning task, managing finances, cars, the yard, sick days for kids, doctors appointments, camp registration, and on and on.

Ask your husband to sit down with you. Write down the hours he typically works. Write down how his PTO works. Assume you have a 9-5 schedule with commuting. Map out the hours in a one week period and figure out how it all gets done with each of your “free time.” Like will he grocery shop at 9pm every Tuesday? Will you work out at 5am? Will he chop all the veggies while you both batch cook on the weekend? And if he basically looks at you with a blank stare like he cannot possibly participate in any of this, really think about why you are going back to work.

And ALL THESE MEN who claim to be SO VERY IMPORTANT for every meeting in their office are usually lying. Frankly, the more senior you are, the more flexibility you should have.

This. It is a math problem. You need to really force him to grapple with it in detail.

But don't be surprised if you have some major disagreements over what is essential vs. nonessential. He will try to say things aren't important and in his head, they are your leisure activities.

And also suggest that he find a message board for dads where he can crowdsource how dads handle this. Because just the fact that you seem to be the only one of you thinking about this really says something!!

[Anonymous]

Don’t strive for perfection. And make your life more convenient. Order groceries for delivery, pay for cleaning, hire a sitter for a few hours even if it’s to relieve you to nap, organize, etc. Be okay with your home being less than ideal in terms of cleanliness. Evenings are tough for us and are short on family time due to early bedtime so we cook meals for the next day after the kid is in bed. So after school we come home and heat it up quickly so we have more time for dinner and family. We also cook in big batches and have no problem eating the same meal multiple times in a row.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spend this weekend making up a spreadsheet of ALL THE THINGS you can imagine that need to be handled — laundry, groceries, pharmacy, cooking, each cleaning task, managing finances, cars, the yard, sick days for kids, doctors appointments, camp registration, and on and on.

Ask your husband to sit down with you. Write down the hours he typically works. Write down how his PTO works. Assume you have a 9-5 schedule with commuting. Map out the hours in a one week period and figure out how it all gets done with each of your “free time.” Like will he grocery shop at 9pm every Tuesday? Will you work out at 5am? Will he chop all the veggies while you both batch cook on the weekend? And if he basically looks at you with a blank stare like he cannot possibly participate in any of this, really think about why you are going back to work.

And ALL THESE MEN who claim to be SO VERY IMPORTANT for every meeting in their office are usually lying. Frankly, the more senior you are, the more flexibility you should have.

This. It is a math problem. You need to really force him to grapple with it in detail.

But don't be surprised if you have some major disagreements over what is essential vs. nonessential. He will try to say things aren't important and in his head, they are your leisure activities.

And also suggest that he find a message board for dads where he can crowdsource how dads handle this. Because just the fact that you seem to be the only one of you thinking about this really says something!!

Amen to this!