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The golden age of American Jews is ending
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Anonymous
The last I checked, none are actually using american weapons to slaughter people (not citizens because that privilege was never extended to them) living within their borders on a mass scale. |
Anonymous
Very well said. We are finally having an open conversation about something that has been taboo to discuss for a long time. It's a hard conversation and it doesn't fall nearly into a good-bad paradigm. But better to actually discuss it than to have people silently questioning but afraid to speak up. |
Anonymous
A majority of Israeli Jews also don't want Israel to be a theocracy, which is why there were massive street protests last year against Netanyahu's attempt to change the rules for the Israeli judicial system and why he's desperate to keep the war going to delay elections that will likely see him finally thrown out of office. So not wanting Israel to be a theocracy is not antisemitic. Not wanting Israel to exist, specifically because it's a Jewish state? That would be antisemitic. At any rate, it's also unproductive; Israel does exist, it has existed now for 75 years, and there's no real way to make it cease existing without moving or killing millions of Israeli Jews (there are also millions of Israeli non-Jews, but I suppose it'd be easier for them to stay there if you abolished the state). |
Anonymous
The families highlighted in the article strongly equate protests against Israel with antisemitism. That’s why we’re discussing Israel. It becomes very complicated to draw a line when American Jews claim Israel as integral to Jewish identity and attacking the Israeli government is an antisemitic attack against them personally. |
Anonymous
Saudi Arabia was using American weapons to slaughter people in Yemen not that long ago; not within their borders, but still not ideal. The U.S. government was using American weapons to slaughter people in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan recently, too. I guess that's different. |
Anonymous
The families highlighted in the top of the article are objecting to things like this: "Are you Jewish?” one mop-haired tween asks another, seemingly unaware of any adult presence. “No way,” the second kid replies. “I f***ing hate them.” Another blurts, “Kill Israel.” A student laughingly attempts to start a chant of “KKK.” Or like this: Zolt Hara didn’t need to imagine how kids might respond to these lessons. After October 7, her son, who is 13, began coming home with stories about anti-Semitic jibes hurled in his direction. On his way to math class, a kid walked up to him playing what he called a “Nazi salute song” on his phone. Another said something in German and told him, “I don’t like your people.” Not... totally sure that's primarily about criticism of Israel? Most Jews do think the existence of Israel is an integral part of Jewish identity, you're right. But there's a very wide range of Jewish opinion on what that means, and how it's integral, and most American Jews also oppose Israel's right-wing government and want an end to the occupation. An unfortunate number of people who are attacking the Israeli government now also seem to think it speaks for all Jews, which it doesn't (it doesn't even speak for all Israeli Jews), or that anything Jewish is fair game for lodging any number of complaints about Israel's policies. |
Anonymous
I’m a different poster, but feel the same way, so I’ll respond: Are you saying you support human rights abuses by Muslim theocracies? It sounds like you agree that Israel commits atrocities with American money, but you’re arguing it’s okay because American money has funded human rights abuses in Muslim theocracies in the past. I’ll indulge this line of thinking that it’s only fair for Israel to get a turn to commit genocide. The difference is the scale. In recent history, Israel is the only country to receive billions in military funding from the U.S. — and they’re openly using this money to commit a genocide. Of course people are going to protest. |
Anonymous
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The modern State of Israel didn’t even exist 80 years ago, so there is no sense that it is an essential part of Judaism. Arguably, Diaspora is more authentically Jewish having a State, since that was how Judaism developed for the recent milennia.
Wanting to have a state of Israel can be considered a major part of Judaism, and returning to Jerusalem is too, but that’s not the same thing as wanting or supporting the imperialistic political class that controls that land today. And to the extent that conquering the Holy Land by force is Jewish per the ancient texts, well, there’s no defense against that. If opposing that is anti-Semitic, then opposing German Nazis is racist. |
Anonymous
Please define genocide. Israel has been adjacent and overlapping and yes fighting with Palestine for nearly a century while the Palestinian people have grown hugely in population, far higher than the worldwide average. Meanwhile Palestine’s leaders have consistently made war on all their Arab neighbors. |
Anonymous
Physically isolating a populace, bombing them and denying them adequate food supplies seems like a good example |
Anonymous
Here you go: Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories: 1) Killing members of the group 2) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group 3) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part 4) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group 5) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group |
Anonymous
Is Egypt not isolating Gazans? They are building a giant wall. |
Anonymous
I'm not arguing that it's "fair for Israel to get a turn to commit genocide." I support an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and return of Israeli hostages. But I do think it's interesting that Israel's bombing in Gaza is being met with more outrage in America than America's bombing of cities held by the Islamic State, which also killed thousands of civilians. |
Anonymous
Right, so… not genocide. It’s a war. War is terrible and has civilian casualties. Hamas chose the theatre of war here and it purposefully multiplies casualties. But WHY is this thread talking about this? The article is talking about the golden age for Jews. Take this talk over to the Gaza thread. |
Anonymous
Because the not-so+quiet part is that Jews deserve antisemitism, because Israel. Before 1948, the rationale was slightly different, but the motivation was the same. It remains to see whether the outcome will be. |