The golden age of American Jews is ending

[Anonymous]

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Current events have me wondering, does the Jewish community in the U.S. consider it antisemitic to not support Israel?

If a gentile disagrees with Israeli foreign policy are they by definition antisemitic?

You don’t have to agree with Israeli foreign policy, but if you disagree with Israel’s right to exist, that is anti-Semitic.

Why is not supporting a theocracy's right to exist as a theocracy antisemitic?

So are you also not supporting all the Muslim theocracies in the world?

Correct.

So you’re out there protesting them, signing petitions, talking about how to overthrow them with all your friends?

The last I checked, none are actually using american weapons to slaughter people (not citizens because that privilege was never extended to them) living within their borders on a mass scale.

Saudi Arabia was using American weapons to slaughter people in Yemen not that long ago; not within their borders, but still not ideal. The U.S. government was using American weapons to slaughter people in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan recently, too. I guess that's different.

I’m a different poster, but feel the same way, so I’ll respond:

Are you saying you support human rights abuses by Muslim theocracies? It sounds like you agree that Israel commits atrocities with American money, but you’re arguing it’s okay because American money has funded human rights abuses in Muslim theocracies in the past.

I’ll indulge this line of thinking that it’s only fair for Israel to get a turn to commit genocide.

The difference is the scale.

In recent history, Israel is the only country to receive billions in military funding from the U.S. — and they’re openly using this money to commit a genocide. Of course people are going to protest.

I'm not arguing that it's "fair for Israel to get a turn to commit genocide." I support an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and return of Israeli hostages. But I do think it's interesting that Israel's bombing in Gaza is being met with more outrage in America than America's bombing of cities held by the Islamic State, which also killed thousands of civilians.

The United States’ war in the Middle East was met with massive protests and ended many political careers.

Also, to put the death toll into perspective. It took two years of war before the United States killed the same number of civilians killed by Israel in the first few months of the conflict.

Your view that everyone just stood by and said nothing while other atrocities were going on, is laughably wrong. It's also gross to say that objecting to genocide is antisemitic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Any questions or pointing out of anything related to being Jewish is immediately labeled as antisemitism. Doesn’t make you sympathetic to be honest.
The constant oppression Olympics participation is tiresome as well. Hatred towards URMs is also something not very pleasant.
At least that’s what I observe in ex USSR Jews of whom I know many.

Perhaps you could give an example of the “pointing out of anything related to being Jewish” that you feel is unfairly being labeled as antisemitism, and that is preventing you from doling out any sympathy towards Jews. Just wondering.

Like asking if they are bothered by how many kids died in Gaza. this is apparently antisemitism!
Fwiw I am neither from the Middle East nor Jewish

You cannot be serious.

The 'antisemitism' that the author leads the story with is a protest against Israel

Forget the author. Do you actually think that coming up to a Jewish person in America and asking them about dead kids in Gaza is not antisemitic?

But does that actually happen on any sort of regular basis? The author leads with this account of high schoolers because kids in high school are a-holes and they make his argument easy. When I was in high school I was against the Iraq war and kids came up to me and told me I wanted to f*** Saddam Hussein. Was that a larger statement on my existence or are kids just aholes? The whole article is actually really, really lazy writing.

I am asking you about the statement you made, not about the article.

PP you are responding to- i am a different poster, I didn’t make that statement, and I thought we were talking about the article. Why doesn’t anyone ever want to talk about the article?!?!

I don't mind talking about the article, and I have. I don't think it was a lazy article. I think you are missing the point of it, or refuse to see it though. When someone makes a joke against a minority that is a certain type of joke, it absolutely is racist/antisemitic/bigoted. It's true if a teen makes that joke too, and should be condemned, not brushed off in a "oh, well, kids will be kids!" type of way.

I reread the opening. I don't see a single reference to attacks on Jews, the protest was against Israel and there is no insinuation that any animus was directed to the 16 year old

I agree , the article doesn't cite much antisemitism in schools. If Jewish kids are threatened when people criticize Israel it's because they've been brainwashed to identify with Israel. My part Jewish kid hates Israel because she hasn't been told it's key to her safety and identity. It's not hard for her to understand why stealing land, killing people, and starving children is heinous no matter who the actor is.

Does your child also hate Hamas?

Why do people post this? Hamas is a terrorist organization, do you really want Israel to be seen in that light and held to those standards?

I am just curious to know if op's kid hates Israel but likes/supports Hamas. It's always enlightening and surprising to see people support Hamas but judge Israel.

[Anonymous]

Because the war is between Israel and Hamas. Again, take this to the other thread.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Any questions or pointing out of anything related to being Jewish is immediately labeled as antisemitism. Doesn’t make you sympathetic to be honest.
The constant oppression Olympics participation is tiresome as well. Hatred towards URMs is also something not very pleasant.
At least that’s what I observe in ex USSR Jews of whom I know many.

Perhaps you could give an example of the “pointing out of anything related to being Jewish” that you feel is unfairly being labeled as antisemitism, and that is preventing you from doling out any sympathy towards Jews. Just wondering.

Like asking if they are bothered by how many kids died in Gaza. this is apparently antisemitism!
Fwiw I am neither from the Middle East nor Jewish

You cannot be serious.

The 'antisemitism' that the author leads the story with is a protest against Israel

Forget the author. Do you actually think that coming up to a Jewish person in America and asking them about dead kids in Gaza is not antisemitic?

But does that actually happen on any sort of regular basis? The author leads with this account of high schoolers because kids in high school are a-holes and they make his argument easy. When I was in high school I was against the Iraq war and kids came up to me and told me I wanted to f*** Saddam Hussein. Was that a larger statement on my existence or are kids just aholes? The whole article is actually really, really lazy writing.

I am asking you about the statement you made, not about the article.

PP you are responding to- i am a different poster, I didn’t make that statement, and I thought we were talking about the article. Why doesn’t anyone ever want to talk about the article?!?!

I don't mind talking about the article, and I have. I don't think it was a lazy article. I think you are missing the point of it, or refuse to see it though. When someone makes a joke against a minority that is a certain type of joke, it absolutely is racist/antisemitic/bigoted. It's true if a teen makes that joke too, and should be condemned, not brushed off in a "oh, well, kids will be kids!" type of way.

I reread the opening. I don't see a single reference to attacks on Jews, the protest was against Israel and there is no insinuation that any animus was directed to the 16 year old

I agree , the article doesn't cite much antisemitism in schools. If Jewish kids are threatened when people criticize Israel it's because they've been brainwashed to identify with Israel. My part Jewish kid hates Israel because she hasn't been told it's key to her safety and identity. It's not hard for her to understand why stealing land, killing people, and starving children is heinous no matter who the actor is.

Does your child also hate Hamas?

She knows that Hamas is not supported by her parents' tax dollars. And she knows that many Hamas fighters are the descendents of refugees whose families Israel forced into Gaza during the Nakba when it stole the land upon which the kibbutzim were built, and that Israel has essentially turned Gaza into a prison for decades.

So yes, you are a Hamas-supporting family.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Any questions or pointing out of anything related to being Jewish is immediately labeled as antisemitism. Doesn’t make you sympathetic to be honest.
The constant oppression Olympics participation is tiresome as well. Hatred towards URMs is also something not very pleasant.
At least that’s what I observe in ex USSR Jews of whom I know many.

Perhaps you could give an example of the “pointing out of anything related to being Jewish” that you feel is unfairly being labeled as antisemitism, and that is preventing you from doling out any sympathy towards Jews. Just wondering.

Like asking if they are bothered by how many kids died in Gaza. this is apparently antisemitism!
Fwiw I am neither from the Middle East nor Jewish

You cannot be serious.

The 'antisemitism' that the author leads the story with is a protest against Israel

Forget the author. Do you actually think that coming up to a Jewish person in America and asking them about dead kids in Gaza is not antisemitic?

But does that actually happen on any sort of regular basis? The author leads with this account of high schoolers because kids in high school are a-holes and they make his argument easy. When I was in high school I was against the Iraq war and kids came up to me and told me I wanted to f*** Saddam Hussein. Was that a larger statement on my existence or are kids just aholes? The whole article is actually really, really lazy writing.

I am asking you about the statement you made, not about the article.

PP you are responding to- i am a different poster, I didn’t make that statement, and I thought we were talking about the article. Why doesn’t anyone ever want to talk about the article?!?!

I don't mind talking about the article, and I have. I don't think it was a lazy article. I think you are missing the point of it, or refuse to see it though. When someone makes a joke against a minority that is a certain type of joke, it absolutely is racist/antisemitic/bigoted. It's true if a teen makes that joke too, and should be condemned, not brushed off in a "oh, well, kids will be kids!" type of way.

I reread the opening. I don't see a single reference to attacks on Jews, the protest was against Israel and there is no insinuation that any animus was directed to the 16 year old

I agree , the article doesn't cite much antisemitism in schools. If Jewish kids are threatened when people criticize Israel it's because they've been brainwashed to identify with Israel. My part Jewish kid hates Israel because she hasn't been told it's key to her safety and identity. It's not hard for her to understand why stealing land, killing people, and starving children is heinous no matter who the actor is.

Your part Jewish kid hates Israel because she has been raised in a privileged environment and does not understand that her ancestors and many, many Jews needed Israel for survival. I’m sorry for her that her parents have not conveyed this due to their own personal feeling of safety and privilege.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Any questions or pointing out of anything related to being Jewish is immediately labeled as antisemitism. Doesn’t make you sympathetic to be honest.
The constant oppression Olympics participation is tiresome as well. Hatred towards URMs is also something not very pleasant.
At least that’s what I observe in ex USSR Jews of whom I know many.

Perhaps you could give an example of the “pointing out of anything related to being Jewish” that you feel is unfairly being labeled as antisemitism, and that is preventing you from doling out any sympathy towards Jews. Just wondering.

Like asking if they are bothered by how many kids died in Gaza. this is apparently antisemitism!
Fwiw I am neither from the Middle East nor Jewish

You cannot be serious.

The 'antisemitism' that the author leads the story with is a protest against Israel

Forget the author. Do you actually think that coming up to a Jewish person in America and asking them about dead kids in Gaza is not antisemitic?

But does that actually happen on any sort of regular basis? The author leads with this account of high schoolers because kids in high school are a-holes and they make his argument easy. When I was in high school I was against the Iraq war and kids came up to me and told me I wanted to f*** Saddam Hussein. Was that a larger statement on my existence or are kids just aholes? The whole article is actually really, really lazy writing.

I am asking you about the statement you made, not about the article.

PP you are responding to- i am a different poster, I didn’t make that statement, and I thought we were talking about the article. Why doesn’t anyone ever want to talk about the article?!?!

I don't mind talking about the article, and I have. I don't think it was a lazy article. I think you are missing the point of it, or refuse to see it though. When someone makes a joke against a minority that is a certain type of joke, it absolutely is racist/antisemitic/bigoted. It's true if a teen makes that joke too, and should be condemned, not brushed off in a "oh, well, kids will be kids!" type of way.

I reread the opening. I don't see a single reference to attacks on Jews, the protest was against Israel and there is no insinuation that any animus was directed to the 16 year old

I agree , the article doesn't cite much antisemitism in schools. If Jewish kids are threatened when people criticize Israel it's because they've been brainwashed to identify with Israel. My part Jewish kid hates Israel because she hasn't been told it's key to her safety and identity. It's not hard for her to understand why stealing land, killing people, and starving children is heinous no matter who the actor is.

Does your child also hate Hamas?

She knows that Hamas is not supported by her parents' tax dollars. And she knows that many Hamas fighters are the descendents of refugees whose families Israel forced into Gaza during the Nakba when it stole the land upon which the kibbutzim were built, and that Israel has essentially turned Gaza into a prison for decades.

So yes, you are a Hamas-supporting family.

And you are a genocide-supporting family. Own your values.

[Anonymous]

I'm no expert in Middle eastern matters or politics in general, but from the outside (am not American, not white and not Middle eastern if that's important) the reason that it may seem like many are supporting Palestine over Israel may be just that one side has SO much more resources, power and $$$$ compared to the other. It's like, imagine if passersby see a 6yo and a 16yo fight at home, both starting skirmishes with the same frequency. Even if they are both to blame for the fights, people are going to be more sympathetic to the 6yo as opposed to the 16yo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert in Middle eastern matters or politics in general, but from the outside (am not American, not white and not Middle eastern if that's important) the reason that it may seem like many are supporting Palestine over Israel may be just that one side has SO much more resources, power and $$$$ compared to the other. It's like, imagine if passersby see a 6yo and a 16yo fight at home, both starting skirmishes with the same frequency. Even if they are both to blame for the fights, people are going to be more sympathetic to the 6yo as opposed to the 16yo.

Except that other terrorist organizations aren’t treated with the same kid gloves that Hamas is. I’d love to see the American reaction if Canada rained missiles on us the way Hamas has continually been bombing Israel for years. People would lose their minds. There’s something deeply hypocritical about Americans judging Israel for striking back against behavior that they would never in 1000 years put up with.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert in Middle eastern matters or politics in general, but from the outside (am not American, not white and not Middle eastern if that's important) the reason that it may seem like many are supporting Palestine over Israel may be just that one side has SO much more resources, power and $$$$ compared to the other. It's like, imagine if passersby see a 6yo and a 16yo fight at home, both starting skirmishes with the same frequency. Even if they are both to blame for the fights, people are going to be more sympathetic to the 6yo as opposed to the 16yo.

Except that other terrorist organizations aren’t treated with the same kid gloves that Hamas is. I’d love to see the American reaction if Canada rained missiles on us the way Hamas has continually been bombing Israel for years. People would lose their minds. There’s something deeply hypocritical about Americans judging Israel for striking back against behavior that they would never in 1000 years put up with.

I wonder how Americans would handle being told that half of their land now belongs to Europeans

[Anonymous]

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Current events have me wondering, does the Jewish community in the U.S. consider it antisemitic to not support Israel?

If a gentile disagrees with Israeli foreign policy are they by definition antisemitic?

You don’t have to agree with Israeli foreign policy, but if you disagree with Israel’s right to exist, that is anti-Semitic.

Why is not supporting a theocracy's right to exist as a theocracy antisemitic?

So are you also not supporting all the Muslim theocracies in the world?

Correct.

So you’re out there protesting them, signing petitions, talking about how to overthrow them with all your friends?

The last I checked, none are actually using american weapons to slaughter people (not citizens because that privilege was never extended to them) living within their borders on a mass scale.

Saudi Arabia was using American weapons to slaughter people in Yemen not that long ago; not within their borders, but still not ideal. The U.S. government was using American weapons to slaughter people in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan recently, too. I guess that's different.

I’m a different poster, but feel the same way, so I’ll respond:

Are you saying you support human rights abuses by Muslim theocracies? It sounds like you agree that Israel commits atrocities with American money, but you’re arguing it’s okay because American money has funded human rights abuses in Muslim theocracies in the past.

I’ll indulge this line of thinking that it’s only fair for Israel to get a turn to commit genocide.

The difference is the scale.

In recent history, Israel is the only country to receive billions in military funding from the U.S. — and they’re openly using this money to commit a genocide. Of course people are going to protest.

I'm not arguing that it's "fair for Israel to get a turn to commit genocide." I support an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and return of Israeli hostages. But I do think it's interesting that Israel's bombing in Gaza is being met with more outrage in America than America's bombing of cities held by the Islamic State, which also killed thousands of civilians.

The United States’ war in the Middle East was met with massive protests and ended many political careers.

Also, to put the death toll into perspective. It took two years of war before the United States killed the same number of civilians killed by Israel in the first few months of the conflict.

Your view that everyone just stood by and said nothing while other atrocities were going on, is laughably wrong. It's also gross to say that objecting to genocide is antisemitic.

I didn't say the bolded line at all.

The U.S. war in the Middle East was met with massive protests when it started, but by 2017, when the U.S. and its Iraqi allies killed about 10,000 civilians in Mosul, it was not. Yes, that's fewer civilians killed than Israel has killed in Gaza, but it's still a lot. I'd rather no civilians were being killed anywhere, but I don't think it's more tragic when Israel kills them than when the U.S. military does.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert in Middle eastern matters or politics in general, but from the outside (am not American, not white and not Middle eastern if that's important) the reason that it may seem like many are supporting Palestine over Israel may be just that one side has SO much more resources, power and $$$$ compared to the other. It's like, imagine if passersby see a 6yo and a 16yo fight at home, both starting skirmishes with the same frequency. Even if they are both to blame for the fights, people are going to be more sympathetic to the 6yo as opposed to the 16yo.

Except that other terrorist organizations aren’t treated with the same kid gloves that Hamas is. I’d love to see the American reaction if Canada rained missiles on us the way Hamas has continually been bombing Israel for years. People would lose their minds. There’s something deeply hypocritical about Americans judging Israel for striking back against behavior that they would never in 1000 years put up with.

Why do you think Hamas rose to power in the first place? Perhaps it's because Israel has a long history of treating Palestinians so well? Please.

[Anonymous]

(Also, as a side note, which politicians had their careers ended because they supported the U.S. war in Iraq?)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert in Middle eastern matters or politics in general, but from the outside (am not American, not white and not Middle eastern if that's important) the reason that it may seem like many are supporting Palestine over Israel may be just that one side has SO much more resources, power and $$$$ compared to the other. It's like, imagine if passersby see a 6yo and a 16yo fight at home, both starting skirmishes with the same frequency. Even if they are both to blame for the fights, people are going to be more sympathetic to the 6yo as opposed to the 16yo.

Except that other terrorist organizations aren’t treated with the same kid gloves that Hamas is. I’d love to see the American reaction if Canada rained missiles on us the way Hamas has continually been bombing Israel for years. People would lose their minds. There’s something deeply hypocritical about Americans judging Israel for striking back against behavior that they would never in 1000 years put up with.

Why do you think Hamas rose to power in the first place? Perhaps it's because Israel has a long history of treating Palestinians so well? Please.

They first rose to power in part by opposing the Oslo peace accords through a very successful suicide bombing campaign. Being Jewish, I want to hold right-wing Israeli governments more to account than I do Hamas -- to me, right-wing Israeli governments represent a personal betrayal of ideals they claim they share with me, while I don't believe I share any values with Hamas. But it's equally as ahistorical to absolve Hamas of any wrongdoing as it is to pretend Israel has not brutalized generations of Palestinians.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert in Middle eastern matters or politics in general, but from the outside (am not American, not white and not Middle eastern if that's important) the reason that it may seem like many are supporting Palestine over Israel may be just that one side has SO much more resources, power and $$$$ compared to the other. It's like, imagine if passersby see a 6yo and a 16yo fight at home, both starting skirmishes with the same frequency. Even if they are both to blame for the fights, people are going to be more sympathetic to the 6yo as opposed to the 16yo.

Except that other terrorist organizations aren’t treated with the same kid gloves that Hamas is. I’d love to see the American reaction if Canada rained missiles on us the way Hamas has continually been bombing Israel for years. People would lose their minds. There’s something deeply hypocritical about Americans judging Israel for striking back against behavior that they would never in 1000 years put up with.

Hey, the United States tried apartheid and treating certain people as subhuman and it resulted in the largest number of war casualties in our history. Israel has doubled down on draconian policies and they’re surprised that even the most oppressed people will find some way to resist. Since last fall, Israel has moved on to the final solution and is systematically slaughtering all of Gaza.

Come on.

It’s not antisemitism to oppose a genocide.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Any questions or pointing out of anything related to being Jewish is immediately labeled as antisemitism. Doesn’t make you sympathetic to be honest.
The constant oppression Olympics participation is tiresome as well. Hatred towards URMs is also something not very pleasant.
At least that’s what I observe in ex USSR Jews of whom I know many.

Perhaps you could give an example of the “pointing out of anything related to being Jewish” that you feel is unfairly being labeled as antisemitism, and that is preventing you from doling out any sympathy towards Jews. Just wondering.

Like asking if they are bothered by how many kids died in Gaza. this is apparently antisemitism!
Fwiw I am neither from the Middle East nor Jewish

You cannot be serious.

The 'antisemitism' that the author leads the story with is a protest against Israel

Forget the author. Do you actually think that coming up to a Jewish person in America and asking them about dead kids in Gaza is not antisemitic?

But does that actually happen on any sort of regular basis? The author leads with this account of high schoolers because kids in high school are a-holes and they make his argument easy. When I was in high school I was against the Iraq war and kids came up to me and told me I wanted to f*** Saddam Hussein. Was that a larger statement on my existence or are kids just aholes? The whole article is actually really, really lazy writing.

I am asking you about the statement you made, not about the article.

PP you are responding to- i am a different poster, I didn’t make that statement, and I thought we were talking about the article. Why doesn’t anyone ever want to talk about the article?!?!

The families highlighted in the article strongly equate protests against Israel with antisemitism.

That’s why we’re discussing Israel.

It becomes very complicated to draw a line when American Jews claim Israel as integral to Jewish identity and attacking the Israeli government is an antisemitic attack against them personally.

+1 If you go to a protest where any Palestinian flag is waved, you will/would be automatically deemed ANTI-Israel. The anti- and pro- binary is really curbing productive conversation.

Timing is an issue too. If you express sympathy for one "side," and then express sympathy for the other "side," within too many breaths, hours, days, you will be vilified. It's nebulous.