12 yo daughter groped at school...at least twice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP who said "Define grope" for us who you're asking advice of. Also was it the same kid who did it the 2nd time?

For starters, any info she hasn't shared yet she needs to share with you. So if you don't know details of the "groping", tell her you are worried it will continue if she doesn't tell you more. Maybe also explain to her that her trust in you is so important to you... AND you have a job as her parent to protect her. That you have to be able to do that or you're worried she'll feel worse and worse. See how that goes.

I also wonder if whoever groped her told her that if she tells on them, they'll do it more and tell the whole school or tell everyone lies about her. If she's anxious and quiet already, abusers (both child and adult abusers) are often good at sniffing out who will not fight back or stand up for themselves. So maybe also tell her that even if whoever did it threatened her, they are relying on her silence to keep doing it to her and others. That the only way to interrupt it is to address it, even though that also can be stressful.

I'm same PP, if she does tell you more or you are ready to reach out to school, if you can, go to the school to talk to the teacher and ask both what was said and also what the school's protocol is for such behaviors. The teacher likely can't or won't tell you which kid it was or what specific follow up happened because they're not supposed to talk about other kids (sometimes they do anyway though). But asking what the protocol is is important, because that's how you know what follow up is supposed to happen and also ask what would happen in their protocol if she's groped again. AND... also ask a Dean or Vice Principal or Behavior Dean (whoever handles kids breaking the rules overall) what the protocols are. Get a 2nd answer because sometimes if the teacher hasn't followed up, they don't tell you all the facts about what they were *supposed* to do because they didn't do it. So get the info from someone else as well.

If you can't go to the school in person, call the school, ask for the emails of her teacher and whoever handles behavior, and email them these questions. But I do understand you wanting to try to get your daughter to a point where you have her "consent" to reach out, but you really may have to anyway.

How is it going finding her a therapist? When is the last time she had one and what if anything was she diagnosed with? Just asking because it might also help us with ideas for you about how to get her to understand and accept you talking to the school.

The school’s “protocol” is obviously to do nothing, lest it be accused of mistreating the assailant. I’d be surprised if the teacher isn’t a mandated reporter. You need to be the one defining the “protocol” here. You need to be such a problem they’ll do anything to placate you.

You mean well, but as someone who's worked in schools in the DMV around discipline, you are giving horrible advice. If you really think it's functional for a school system to discipline each kid by what parents define as the protocol, you're nuts. OP must first find out what the school's protocol is, then find out if it's been followed, and then act from there. Running in and telling them what they should do... good luck with that without being informed by what the district or school's written rules and protocols are first.

Nonsense. Schools set “protocols” that are easy for them and damn the victim.

“Running in there and telling them what they ‘should’ do is a waste of time. Once you get the police involved and file a lawsuit they will be asking what they have to do to make you go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

I think you did the right thing. Involving the police seems problematic- for all.

Whatever the police do or don't do is not the victim's fault. She can call the police if she wants.

DUDE How is calling the police for 2 assaults problematic???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

This wouldn't surprise me. DMV school systems don't have the expertise or resources to do this right so OP will need to go in eyes open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

I bet there are more than just these two victims.

OP, good for you for standing up for your DD and kudos to your DD for being so brave. Sorry you're all going through this and I really hope things get better for her soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

I think you did the right thing. Involving the police seems problematic- for all.

Whatever the police do or don't do is not the victim's fault. She can call the police if she wants.

DUDE How is calling the police for 2 assaults problematic???

Because they have to then “investigate” which could potentially make the whole situation much more public and humiliating for OP’s DD. Plus this is another 12 yr old. It isn’t like if you file a report about an adult at your work and they get put on leave. Or a stranger you don’t interact with daily. The kid isnt getting formally charged or expelled from school. He will still be there every day. Kids will all be talking about it and the school can’t stop that. I really don’t think it will make things better for OPs daughter. It will likely make them worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

I think you did the right thing. Involving the police seems problematic- for all.

Whatever the police do or don't do is not the victim's fault. She can call the police if she wants.

DUDE How is calling the police for 2 assaults problematic???

Because they have to then “investigate” which could potentially make the whole situation much more public and humiliating for OP’s DD. Plus this is another 12 yr old. It isn’t like if you file a report about an adult at your work and they get put on leave. Or a stranger you don’t interact with daily. The kid isnt getting formally charged or expelled from school. He will still be there every day. Kids will all be talking about it and the school can’t stop that. I really don’t think it will make things better for OPs daughter. It will likely make them worse.

Abusive men have been relying on shame and embarrassment for centuries to silence their victims. The abusers need to be shamed and embarrassed, not the victims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

This wouldn't surprise me. DMV school systems don't have the expertise or resources to do this right so OP will need to go in eyes open.

I'm the person speaking up for Restorative Justice, but nothing in OP's posts even says RJ is on the table so this isn't really about what happens in OP's case. I was just replying to someone who suggested that RJ happen or was being snarky about RJ being an excuse the school might use. But OP hasn't mentioned it at all and I wasn't telling OP to try to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP who said "Define grope" for us who you're asking advice of. Also was it the same kid who did it the 2nd time?

For starters, any info she hasn't shared yet she needs to share with you. So if you don't know details of the "groping", tell her you are worried it will continue if she doesn't tell you more. Maybe also explain to her that her trust in you is so important to you... AND you have a job as her parent to protect her. That you have to be able to do that or you're worried she'll feel worse and worse. See how that goes.

I also wonder if whoever groped her told her that if she tells on them, they'll do it more and tell the whole school or tell everyone lies about her. If she's anxious and quiet already, abusers (both child and adult abusers) are often good at sniffing out who will not fight back or stand up for themselves. So maybe also tell her that even if whoever did it threatened her, they are relying on her silence to keep doing it to her and others. That the only way to interrupt it is to address it, even though that also can be stressful.

I'm same PP, if she does tell you more or you are ready to reach out to school, if you can, go to the school to talk to the teacher and ask both what was said and also what the school's protocol is for such behaviors. The teacher likely can't or won't tell you which kid it was or what specific follow up happened because they're not supposed to talk about other kids (sometimes they do anyway though). But asking what the protocol is is important, because that's how you know what follow up is supposed to happen and also ask what would happen in their protocol if she's groped again. AND... also ask a Dean or Vice Principal or Behavior Dean (whoever handles kids breaking the rules overall) what the protocols are. Get a 2nd answer because sometimes if the teacher hasn't followed up, they don't tell you all the facts about what they were *supposed* to do because they didn't do it. So get the info from someone else as well.

If you can't go to the school in person, call the school, ask for the emails of her teacher and whoever handles behavior, and email them these questions. But I do understand you wanting to try to get your daughter to a point where you have her "consent" to reach out, but you really may have to anyway.

How is it going finding her a therapist? When is the last time she had one and what if anything was she diagnosed with? Just asking because it might also help us with ideas for you about how to get her to understand and accept you talking to the school.

The school’s “protocol” is obviously to do nothing, lest it be accused of mistreating the assailant. I’d be surprised if the teacher isn’t a mandated reporter. You need to be the one defining the “protocol” here. You need to be such a problem they’ll do anything to placate you.

You mean well, but as someone who's worked in schools in the DMV around discipline, you are giving horrible advice. If you really think it's functional for a school system to discipline each kid by what parents define as the protocol, you're nuts. OP must first find out what the school's protocol is, then find out if it's been followed, and then act from there. Running in and telling them what they should do... good luck with that without being informed by what the district or school's written rules and protocols are first.

Nonsense. Schools set “protocols” that are easy for them and damn the victim.

“Running in there and telling them what they ‘should’ do is a waste of time. Once you get the police involved and file a lawsuit they will be asking what they have to do to make you go away.

OP, I'm just so glad you ignored advice like this. The approach you took is more empowering for your daughter, less traumatizing, and more times than not DOES settle the problem. But DO find out from the Principal what the next steps would be if somehow the offender did this again or him or anyone else in school harasses your DD. FInd out NOW what the next step would be/should be, and if you get there, do go in strong about raising the level of publicity about it if they don't get it under control for good. Hopefully you won't have to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

There is a big difference between a convicted murderer doing it through a court and an accused grouper using it as a way to escape punishment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. My daughter is very close mouthed, but I'm assuming it means he grabbed her boob. Twice. Same guy. I'm not sure if it was him, or someone else who also said something about her being fat. (She came home the same day and brought that part up with my husband.)

She has depression, anxiety, ocd. All got worse after this. She hasn't seen a therapist in months...she just refused to talk, so thought a break would be good for her. Because of this (and also because it's been awhile), I'm looking for a new one.

She also takes jujitsu, and I think it's helpful....

I’d talk to her instructor to model what to do when someone grabs you. You don’t have to say grope to the instructor.

She should have grabbed his arm and put him in a hold.

My 14 year old started Taekwondo last year and I had no idea how much self defense they would be teaching. I'm extremely glad for it. The instructor will definitely work with her if you request that.

[Anonymous]

OP - glad you went to the school. You needed to, your daughter needed you to.

Had a similar experience with my DD in middle school. She told me about it at the time but minimized it so I didn't know the full extent of what she went through for two more years. I took it to the school at the time (what I knew) she provided a statement. There was a poor attempt at restorative justice. The school wouldn't tell us anything beyond that in how it was handled.

Since then, she's struggled with self-harm, had multiple suicide attempts, and suffered from anorexia. This was with lots of therapeutic help provided along the way - we didn't wait for these things to crop up. The pandemic was layered into all of this too - and that social isolation made things very hard. She's on the other side now, but it has taken more strength than I thought was ever possible in us both to walk her through these last four years.

Sexual assault hits deep, so deep. It's incredibly unfair. And many times what you would think are avenues of help to the person who experienced the assault (like reporting it) just drive the shame & suffering deeper.

I will be sending out hope that your DD opens up to some help to process all of this, and that you all can find the healing she needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

Nobody cares about the victim.