12 yo daughter groped at school...at least twice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op I was groped at that age. A boy came up behind me and grabbed my breasts. I told my parents, who called his parents (really small town; I could have happily crawled into a pit) they also called the principal.

He was suspended for three days and his parents brought him over to apologize. Open up another pit.

So looking back are you glad it was addressed, or are you saying you were so mortified you wished your parents hadn't acted? It's not clear from what you wrote.

Oh I was glad they acted! Also mortified. I was not a popular kid, bullying was common. I felt like I finally fought back.

[Anonymous]

16:15 here. Restorative justice would have felt like nobody did anything, like it wasn't taken seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - glad you went to the school. You needed to, your daughter needed you to.

Had a similar experience with my DD in middle school. She told me about it at the time but minimized it so I didn't know the full extent of what she went through for two more years. I took it to the school at the time (what I knew) she provided a statement. There was a poor attempt at restorative justice. The school wouldn't tell us anything beyond that in how it was handled.

Since then, she's struggled with self-harm, had multiple suicide attempts, and suffered from anorexia. This was with lots of therapeutic help provided along the way - we didn't wait for these things to crop up. The pandemic was layered into all of this too - and that social isolation made things very hard. She's on the other side now, but it has taken more strength than I thought was ever possible in us both to walk her through these last four years.

Sexual assault hits deep, so deep. It's incredibly unfair. And many times what you would think are avenues of help to the person who experienced the assault (like reporting it) just drive the shame & suffering deeper.

I will be sending out hope that your DD opens up to some help to process all of this, and that you all can find the healing she needs.

DP

Sorry for your daughter’s experience. That sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

I think you did the right thing. Involving the police seems problematic- for all.

Whatever the police do or don't do is not the victim's fault. She can call the police if she wants.

DUDE How is calling the police for 2 assaults problematic???

Because they have to then “investigate” which could potentially make the whole situation much more public and humiliating for OP’s DD. Plus this is another 12 yr old. It isn’t like if you file a report about an adult at your work and they get put on leave. Or a stranger you don’t interact with daily. The kid isnt getting formally charged or expelled from school. He will still be there every day. Kids will all be talking about it and the school can’t stop that. I really don’t think it will make things better for OPs daughter. It will likely make them worse.

Sorry to burst the bro-code but 12 year olds know it's wrong to assault other 12 year olds. Who gives a crap if there is an investigation? There should be. Why shame the victim? I would bet money he gets expelled or suspended. What "makes it better" is when it stops. Not when she stops talking about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

Let me check...... nonexistent.

The guy who groped me had NO excuse. He just thought he would be funny. Girls need to defend themselves. Maybe a few well placed kicks or punches will teach a preteen offender to think twice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I know you think you’re being cute and clever, but you aren’t. Take a seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

Oh yeah, I’m sure he’s a victim and oppressed too.

You should not gaf.

Come on, guys. That person is a sarcastic Right Wing troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

I think you did the right thing. Involving the police seems problematic- for all.

Whatever the police do or don't do is not the victim's fault. She can call the police if she wants.

DUDE How is calling the police for 2 assaults problematic???

Because they have to then “investigate” which could potentially make the whole situation much more public and humiliating for OP’s DD. Plus this is another 12 yr old. It isn’t like if you file a report about an adult at your work and they get put on leave. Or a stranger you don’t interact with daily. The kid isnt getting formally charged or expelled from school. He will still be there every day. Kids will all be talking about it and the school can’t stop that. I really don’t think it will make things better for OPs daughter. It will likely make them worse.

Sorry to burst the bro-code but 12 year olds know it's wrong to assault other 12 year olds. Who gives a crap if there is an investigation? There should be. Why shame the victim? I would bet money he gets expelled or suspended. What "makes it better" is when it stops. Not when she stops talking about it.

LOL. This will not happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thank you so much for everything. It pushed me to realize that regardless of anything else, I needed to go to the school. Met with the principal this morning, my daughter gave a statement. I think she was really upset, but overall she did great and I hope it helps her feel better.

Side note, the boy was also doing this to another girl, so I'm glad I brought it up for the boy's sake (so he can stop and not get worse, I hope).

I was very happy with how the principal handled everything with my daughter, so we'll see. Thank you again.

Good job for speaking up. But you need to go higher.

This tells me that he’s been caught twice, but may have done it to more than two girls. If the school already knows he’s already been spoken to and keeps doing it. He is NOT stopping.

+1 And they did not report to the police. Assuming OP is in the DMV, that’s a violation of mandatory reporter laws. Unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

NP and a middle school teacher. OP, you did the right thing by speaking with the principal. I can guarantee your DD and the other victim are not the first time this boy has been on the school's radar. He probably has a lengthy list of disciplinary referrals that were kicked down the road. I very much doubt any of the teachers would be surprised if they knew what he did.
The school won't tell you, but I would ask your DD whether she sees him at school for the next few days. He should be suspended and frankly expulsion should also be on the table. Apologies if I missed it, but if they are in classes or on the bus together you should absolutely insist that he be placed elsewhere or assigned alternate transportation. If the school won't accommodate that, demand a meeting with the principal and ask him/her to specify exactly what they're doing to ensure this won't happen again and have them put those assurances in writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

There is a big difference between a convicted murderer doing it through a court and an accused grouper using it as a way to escape punishment

You're proving how little you know about this. Just about everyone caught doing something they weren't supposed to do and that they're getting in trouble for is looking for a way out. It would never be effective in schools (when done right) if "an accused groper wanted to use it to escape punishment" - Newsflash: EVERY kid accused of something they know they did wants to escape punishment. Maybe read up on Restorative Justice and how it is supposed to work before you try to dismiss it while showing you know almost nothing about it. When done right... it works very well. It is very hard to do it right, so it's hard to have as "The go-to consequence" in an overwhelmed school system that can't commit the staff & time to doing it well all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP and a middle school teacher. OP, you did the right thing by speaking with the principal. I can guarantee your DD and the other victim are not the first time this boy has been on the school's radar. He probably has a lengthy list of disciplinary referrals that were kicked down the road. I very much doubt any of the teachers would be surprised if they knew what he did.
The school won't tell you, but I would ask your DD whether she sees him at school for the next few days. He should be suspended and frankly expulsion should also be on the table. Apologies if I missed it, but if they are in classes or on the bus together you should absolutely insist that he be placed elsewhere or assigned alternate transportation. If the school won't accommodate that, demand a meeting with the principal and ask him/her to specify exactly what they're doing to ensure this won't happen again and have them put those assurances in writing.

Unfortunately that is not going to happen in MCPS. Not sure what school district the OP is in, but it’s unlikely in Montgomery County. Kids are allowed to stay in school for way worse (not saying groping is not terrible).

[Anonymous]

I haven’t read all the responses, but I wanted to add my story:
This happened to me—in high school. The boy groped me in the school parking lot. I immediately went into the school & in tears, told a teacher—who basically said sorry, but boys will be boys. My parents called his parents (mortifying, but I agreed to it). Those parents tried to blame me—for what, I don’t know. Existing, perhaps. But their angel would never act in such a manner. We had many classes together, and so the school suggested peer mediation. That was a joke & made me feel worse. He began to call me names in the halls during class changes. Fortunately, this was late in the year.

All this to say, I can only hope that everyone (parents, teachers, admin, counselors) is taking these incidents more seriously these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Report this to the police today!
Once the report is done inform the school.
Empower your daughter to defend herself, hit, scream or kick him in the balls if he gropes her again.

No! The school cannot employ restorative justice if you involve the police.

Where is your concern for the boy who did this?

I'm guessing you're joking? Restorative justice is a joke.

Real Restorative Justice is amazingly effective at stopping offenders from re-offending. But it takes a lot of training, consistency, and monitoring to make sure it's done right. So a lot that's called "RJ" is not really RJ, and makes people think what you said. But make no mistake, there's abundant studies & evidence that done well, it's highly effective - including in some unbelievably complex, violent situations. And it is effective for both offender and victim, that's the whole point, to try to make the victim "whole" again as much as possible, while addressing a bunch of things with the offender that make them far far less likely to offend again.

That's wonderful. I've never actually seen or heard of it being effective in DCPS. I would be happy to be proven wrong!

It is not effective for the victim. At all.

I've worked in a court that practiced it. I've seen families of murder victims and actual rape victims themselves swear by it when it was all over. I understand that you don't believe in it, but don't for a moment try to speak for all the victims who said it actually was healing & effective when they thought nothing would ever heal them. If a family of someone murdered or someone raped by the defendant feel that way, and the defendant once they do their time doesn't re-offend anymore, that is effective more so than most of what happens every day in this country. Problem is it's very very hard to consistently do it right and you have to constantly be training staff and re-training staff.

There is a big difference between a convicted murderer doing it through a court and an accused grouper using it as a way to escape punishment

You're proving how little you know about this. Just about everyone caught doing something they weren't supposed to do and that they're getting in trouble for is looking for a way out. It would never be effective in schools (when done right) if "an accused groper wanted to use it to escape punishment" - Newsflash: EVERY kid accused of something they know they did wants to escape punishment. Maybe read up on Restorative Justice and how it is supposed to work before you try to dismiss it while showing you know almost nothing about it. When done right... it works very well. It is very hard to do it right, so it's hard to have as "The go-to consequence" in an overwhelmed school system that can't commit the staff & time to doing it well all the time.

So is restorative justice the new communism? That’s never been implemented correctly so we’ve never seen how good it could be?