Surrogacy abroad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

What’s appalling is voicing your unwanted opinion over and over again. You’re trying to be like one of those awful protestors picketing outside of an abortion clinic. But here, no one sees you. You are nothing more than obnoxious noise. Guess what? You’re not going to intimidate anyone out of using a surrogate. We don’t think it’s wrong. You can keep typing away, your opinion is worthless to anyone who matters.

Given how many countries have banned and are banning the practice as unethical, I would say your opinion that you don’t think it’s wrong is the one that is irrelevant. The opinions that matter are the policymakers in the various countries impacted. And they are overwhelmingly against surrogacy.

The US is increasingly an outlier on this issue globally. Up to you whether you want to recognize reality or not, but that is what is happening.

[Anonymous]

The views of the UN Human Rights Commission regarding international commercial surrogacy:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-sale-of-children/surrogacy

"There is growing unease that the practice of engaging surrogate mothers in States with emerging economies to bear children for more wealthy intending parents from other States entails power imbalances and thus risks for both the children and surrogate mothers.

The report presented by the Special Rapporteur on the sale and sexual exploitation of children to the Human Rights Council noted the presence of abusive practices in both unregulated and regulated contexts and provided analysis and recommendations on implementing the prohibition of the sale of children as it relates to surrogacy."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?

It’s got to be the same couple of people posting on here. I personally know five families who used surrogates. Three heterosexual couples and two sets of gay dads. In real life, I never heard one word of gossip or judgment from the people who knew them. It was well accepted by everyone in the community, even by the evangelical types I thought might judge (especially the gays.) I have no knowledge of anyone thinking poorly of these personal choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?

It’s got to be the same couple of people posting on here. I personally know five families who used surrogates. Three heterosexual couples and two sets of gay dads. In real life, I never heard one word of gossip or judgment from the people who knew them. It was well accepted by everyone in the community, even by the evangelical types I thought might judge (especially the gays.) I have no knowledge of anyone thinking poorly of these personal choices.

That's remarkable, considering only 0.1% of US babies are born via surrogate, so your sample set must be skewed toward extreme wealth/extreme entitlement. It's been rumored that the two groups intersect on a venn diagram.

[Anonymous]

NP. Man, this thread is unhinged.We have the person/people who refuse to acknowledge any ethical issues with the use of surrogates, particularly those in poorer countries. And we have some crazy anti-Indian person (who would nevertheless rent Indian women's wombs).

There is such potential for exploitation in the international surrogacy "market," it is not intellectual honest to disregard it. We get it that some of you desperately want biological children and would never want to harm anyone, but this is an ethically fraught area with a significant power imbalance and sometimes a very ugly underbelly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?

It’s got to be the same couple of people posting on here. I personally know five families who used surrogates. Three heterosexual couples and two sets of gay dads. In real life, I never heard one word of gossip or judgment from the people who knew them. It was well accepted by everyone in the community, even by the evangelical types I thought might judge (especially the gays.) I have no knowledge of anyone thinking poorly of these personal choices.

That's remarkable, considering only 0.1% of US babies are born via surrogate, so your sample set must be skewed toward extreme wealth/extreme entitlement. It's been rumored that the two groups intersect on a venn diagram.

I’m as middle class as they come, lady.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Wow. There is so much to unpack with your post and your views.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Because it’s so ethical to troll around infertility boards to share your unwanted opinion on the ethics of surrogacy?

You know who was also really against the legality of surrogacy? The Golden State Killer’s wife, Sharon Huddle. She made a living harping about how unethical surrogacy was and insisting that infertile people shouldn’t try to children. (Yes, because breeding with a sadistic rapist is much better.) Meanwhile, he didn’t start murdering his victims until he got together with Sharon. And many of the survivors remember hearing a woman’s voice. Sharon claims she doesn’t know why he went out all the time in the middle of the night. And the very best part, after they split up, not only did the murders stop, but they didn’t get a divorce, not until after he was caught; and this is despite the fact that Sharon was a divorce lawyer.

I’ve always wondered what kind of person would call a miracle like surrogacy unethical. Now, I know.

OP, good luck to you!!!! Have you considered India?

For Indians only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:INDIA

I am Indian and I feel if the mothers are paid $20-25K (instead of several hundred dollars) and their expenses and medical care is fully taken care of during pregnancy and postpartum - it will change their and their family's future.

Make it worth their while.

https://reproductiverights.org/assisted-reproduction-and-surrogacy-in-india/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?

It’s got to be the same couple of people posting on here. I personally know five families who used surrogates. Three heterosexual couples and two sets of gay dads. In real life, I never heard one word of gossip or judgment from the people who knew them. It was well accepted by everyone in the community, even by the evangelical types I thought might judge (especially the gays.) I have no knowledge of anyone thinking poorly of these personal choices.

DP. I don't know how you can read the thread and think the issue at play is whether people who use surrogates are thought of poorly in their social circles. Your response underscores your indifference to the real issue, which is the exploitation of the poor women in poor countries as part of the surrogacy market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

So true. Literally defending the abuse of women - but they get to purchase a human being at the end, so its all good!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?

It’s got to be the same couple of people posting on here. I personally know five families who used surrogates. Three heterosexual couples and two sets of gay dads. In real life, I never heard one word of gossip or judgment from the people who knew them. It was well accepted by everyone in the community, even by the evangelical types I thought might judge (especially the gays.) I have no knowledge of anyone thinking poorly of these personal choices.

You think people say everything they think?! You're so naive. If I knew someone using a surrogate I would smile and say congratulations, but I think it is actually appalling and unethical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?

It’s got to be the same couple of people posting on here. I personally know five families who used surrogates. Three heterosexual couples and two sets of gay dads. In real life, I never heard one word of gossip or judgment from the people who knew them. It was well accepted by everyone in the community, even by the evangelical types I thought might judge (especially the gays.) I have no knowledge of anyone thinking poorly of these personal choices.

You think people say everything they think?! You're so naive. If I knew someone using a surrogate I would smile and say congratulations, but I think it is actually appalling and unethical.

PP here. Yes, and then you’d run to talk about them behind their back. That didn’t happen around the people I knew who used surrogates. No one said anything nasty behind their backs. That’s one of the many reasons I’m surprised by the judgment on this board. Maybe I just know better, less opinionated, less self-righteous people who mind their own business?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?

It’s got to be the same couple of people posting on here. I personally know five families who used surrogates. Three heterosexual couples and two sets of gay dads. In real life, I never heard one word of gossip or judgment from the people who knew them. It was well accepted by everyone in the community, even by the evangelical types I thought might judge (especially the gays.) I have no knowledge of anyone thinking poorly of these personal choices.

You think people say everything they think?! You're so naive. If I knew someone using a surrogate I would smile and say congratulations, but I think it is actually appalling and unethical.

PP here. Yes, and then you’d run to talk about them behind their back. That didn’t happen around the people I knew who used surrogates. No one said anything nasty behind their backs. That’s one of the many reasons I’m surprised by the judgment on this board. Maybe I just know better, less opinionated, less self-righteous people who mind their own business?

You mean you know people who think nothing of exploiting underprivileged women*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?

It’s got to be the same couple of people posting on here. I personally know five families who used surrogates. Three heterosexual couples and two sets of gay dads. In real life, I never heard one word of gossip or judgment from the people who knew them. It was well accepted by everyone in the community, even by the evangelical types I thought might judge (especially the gays.) I have no knowledge of anyone thinking poorly of these personal choices.

You think people say everything they think?! You're so naive. If I knew someone using a surrogate I would smile and say congratulations, but I think it is actually appalling and unethical.

PP here. Yes, and then you’d run to talk about them behind their back. That didn’t happen around the people I knew who used surrogates. No one said anything nasty behind their backs. That’s one of the many reasons I’m surprised by the judgment on this board. Maybe I just know better, less opinionated, less self-righteous people who mind their own business?

Nope. I didn't gossip with anyone. I have no idea what other people think, so I wasn't going to bring it up and offend someone.

I know you don't want to believe me but people can and do disagree but keep it to themselves.