Surrogacy abroad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Youre probably (precisely) right that the rich in those countries dont care about the poor, and especially the poor women. But purposely seeking out a poor country to leverage your $ against someone elses body is gross. I don't love the idea of going to a poor country and waving your money around, looking to exploit someone. Basically buying a slave for 10 months (at least). Going to a poor country also means its more likely that the surrogate has less protections, may not be aware of any legal issues, etc. Much easier to take advantage of a poor impoverished woman from a developing nation rather than pay an appropriate market price for her body. Whatever that price is supposed to be.

A surrogate isn’t a slave. It’s offensive for you to equate the two. It’s not like anyone is kidnapped and forced to carry other people’s kids. It’s a CHOICE for the surrogates. No one is waving money around. OP doesn’t have $200,000. She has half that. That’s a lot of money for someone in most countries outside of the US, Canada, Israel, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It actually comes out to much more money for the surrogate.

Why are you deciding for other women how they can make money? I, for one, loved being pregnant. I would happily do it for money, especially if I needed some, but I’m in my late 40s and think that I’d be pushing it at this stage. I wouldn’t consider it selling my body. I’d consider it helping someone out and getting paid for it as a huge bonus.

Why is your opinion the only one that counts? Are you imagining yourself as Judge Judy?

NP. Many women have been forced and coerced into surrogacy. I watched a documentary about surrogates in India, and one man decided that his wife was going to be a surrogate to supplement his income. She was forced to stay away from her own child for the duration of her pregnancy and live in a baby mill. When she gave birth, she was treated as subhuman by the doctors, who showed complete disregard for her. After the birth, her husband was so thrilled with the money that he decided to make her do it again. Luckily commercial surrogacy is illegal there now, but this clearly illustrates the ways in which surrogacy can be used to exploit women. Also, the average US surrogate isn't making anywhere near $100k. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

Why don’t you watch a documentary of how women are generally treated in India? They drown out their baby daughters and burn rape victims to death, too. Do you think this guy was an otherwise upstanding husband?

For some of these women, surrogacy opens a million doors and a lot of freedom. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

I'm Indian and I don't need to learn about women in India. You're also engaging in whataboutism again, which is completely illogical. Just because some poor women are exploited and abused in terrible ways certainly doesn't justify legalizing another way to exploit and abuse poor women exclusively. Luckily the Indian government is smarter than you and has banned commercial surrogacy, finding it unethical - like most of the world. Surrogacy isn't "opening doors" for poor women any more than prostitution. A year later, these surrogates aren't suddenly climbing the success ladder, going to college, or being boss girl.

As an Indian you should be ashamed of the caste system, of the slums, of the lack of public toilets and the many inherent elements of Indian culture which completely prevent a person from rising above their station at birth. But it’s a lot easier to rant about a fringe, niche surrogacy industry than it is to actually fix the numerous real problems in your country. I used to blame the British and colonialism, but after seeing how a lot of Indians see the world, I don’t anymore.

I’m not the PP but maybe if you don’t want to sound completely insane and entitled you should drop the racist personal attacks in your efforts to defend a grossly exploitative industry.

So, the slums and the caste system are part of my racist imagination? It’s way more productive to focus on the few thousand women who used to make a decent living as surrogates rather than the millions upon millions of children who live in trash heaps. Better yet, let’s shout out “insane” and “racist” to anyone who notices the stupidity and the hypocrisy of it. The state of India makes total sense to me. Sorry if that offends you.

Odd to run into one of the openly anti-Indian racists Jeff has to regularly delete on this site. I have wondered before what’s wrong with people like you.

In any event, with rabid racists like you defending surrogacy, the people pointing out how unethical it is don’t have to do any work. You are doing their work for them. Just keep posting and we can all see the kind of people who defend surrogacy. You are being left behind, anyhow. Countries are increasingly banning the practice because of how unethical it is.

I am not an anti-Indian. I have never commented about Indians at all, especially not on this site. I’m just astounded hoe anyone could focus on a niche industry affecting a few thousand, when there are far more serious issues affecting many millions. That’s a complete lack of basic executive functioning, like cleaning out your sock drawer while your house is on fire. But go ahead and call me a racist. Surrogacy is now illegal, but life in India isn’t getting any better for the kids in the slums. Feel better?

You are quite obviously extremely anti-Indian, extremely racist, and seem disgustingly entitled to the bodies of Indian women to boot.

With friends like you, surrogacy certainly doesn’t need any enemies. You are making the case for banning surrogacy with each and every post you make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Youre probably (precisely) right that the rich in those countries dont care about the poor, and especially the poor women. But purposely seeking out a poor country to leverage your $ against someone elses body is gross. I don't love the idea of going to a poor country and waving your money around, looking to exploit someone. Basically buying a slave for 10 months (at least). Going to a poor country also means its more likely that the surrogate has less protections, may not be aware of any legal issues, etc. Much easier to take advantage of a poor impoverished woman from a developing nation rather than pay an appropriate market price for her body. Whatever that price is supposed to be.

A surrogate isn’t a slave. It’s offensive for you to equate the two. It’s not like anyone is kidnapped and forced to carry other people’s kids. It’s a CHOICE for the surrogates. No one is waving money around. OP doesn’t have $200,000. She has half that. That’s a lot of money for someone in most countries outside of the US, Canada, Israel, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It actually comes out to much more money for the surrogate.

Why are you deciding for other women how they can make money? I, for one, loved being pregnant. I would happily do it for money, especially if I needed some, but I’m in my late 40s and think that I’d be pushing it at this stage. I wouldn’t consider it selling my body. I’d consider it helping someone out and getting paid for it as a huge bonus.

Why is your opinion the only one that counts? Are you imagining yourself as Judge Judy?

NP. Many women have been forced and coerced into surrogacy. I watched a documentary about surrogates in India, and one man decided that his wife was going to be a surrogate to supplement his income. She was forced to stay away from her own child for the duration of her pregnancy and live in a baby mill. When she gave birth, she was treated as subhuman by the doctors, who showed complete disregard for her. After the birth, her husband was so thrilled with the money that he decided to make her do it again. Luckily commercial surrogacy is illegal there now, but this clearly illustrates the ways in which surrogacy can be used to exploit women. Also, the average US surrogate isn't making anywhere near $100k. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

Why don’t you watch a documentary of how women are generally treated in India? They drown out their baby daughters and burn rape victims to death, too. Do you think this guy was an otherwise upstanding husband?

For some of these women, surrogacy opens a million doors and a lot of freedom. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

I'm Indian and I don't need to learn about women in India. You're also engaging in whataboutism again, which is completely illogical. Just because some poor women are exploited and abused in terrible ways certainly doesn't justify legalizing another way to exploit and abuse poor women exclusively. Luckily the Indian government is smarter than you and has banned commercial surrogacy, finding it unethical - like most of the world. Surrogacy isn't "opening doors" for poor women any more than prostitution. A year later, these surrogates aren't suddenly climbing the success ladder, going to college, or being boss girl.

As an Indian you should be ashamed of the caste system, of the slums, of the lack of public toilets and the many inherent elements of Indian culture which completely prevent a person from rising above their station at birth. But it’s a lot easier to rant about a fringe, niche surrogacy industry than it is to actually fix the numerous real problems in your country. I used to blame the British and colonialism, but after seeing how a lot of Indians see the world, I don’t anymore.

I’m not the PP but maybe if you don’t want to sound completely insane and entitled you should drop the racist personal attacks in your efforts to defend a grossly exploitative industry.

So, the slums and the caste system are part of my racist imagination? It’s way more productive to focus on the few thousand women who used to make a decent living as surrogates rather than the millions upon millions of children who live in trash heaps. Better yet, let’s shout out “insane” and “racist” to anyone who notices the stupidity and the hypocrisy of it. The state of India makes total sense to me. Sorry if that offends you.

Odd to run into one of the openly anti-Indian racists Jeff has to regularly delete on this site. I have wondered before what’s wrong with people like you.

In any event, with rabid racists like you defending surrogacy, the people pointing out how unethical it is don’t have to do any work. You are doing their work for them. Just keep posting and we can all see the kind of people who defend surrogacy. You are being left behind, anyhow. Countries are increasingly banning the practice because of how unethical it is.

I am not an anti-Indian. I have never commented about Indians at all, especially not on this site. I’m just astounded hoe anyone could focus on a niche industry affecting a few thousand, when there are far more serious issues affecting many millions. That’s a complete lack of basic executive functioning, like cleaning out your sock drawer while your house is on fire. But go ahead and call me a racist. Surrogacy is now illegal, but life in India isn’t getting any better for the kids in the slums. Feel better?

You are quite obviously extremely anti-Indian, extremely racist, and seem disgustingly entitled to the bodies of Indian women to boot.

With friends like you, surrogacy certainly doesn’t need any enemies. You are making the case for banning surrogacy with each and every post you make.



You are so full of it! You are wholeheartedly opposed to surrogacy. You think it exploits women to use their bodies to carry a pregnancy for another family for money. But you’re such a phony that you’re somehow making it about race and poverty, when really you think it should only happen if a woman volunteers to do it for free.

What’s your case for surrogacy? I’m all ears…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Youre probably (precisely) right that the rich in those countries dont care about the poor, and especially the poor women. But purposely seeking out a poor country to leverage your $ against someone elses body is gross. I don't love the idea of going to a poor country and waving your money around, looking to exploit someone. Basically buying a slave for 10 months (at least). Going to a poor country also means its more likely that the surrogate has less protections, may not be aware of any legal issues, etc. Much easier to take advantage of a poor impoverished woman from a developing nation rather than pay an appropriate market price for her body. Whatever that price is supposed to be.

A surrogate isn’t a slave. It’s offensive for you to equate the two. It’s not like anyone is kidnapped and forced to carry other people’s kids. It’s a CHOICE for the surrogates. No one is waving money around. OP doesn’t have $200,000. She has half that. That’s a lot of money for someone in most countries outside of the US, Canada, Israel, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It actually comes out to much more money for the surrogate.

Why are you deciding for other women how they can make money? I, for one, loved being pregnant. I would happily do it for money, especially if I needed some, but I’m in my late 40s and think that I’d be pushing it at this stage. I wouldn’t consider it selling my body. I’d consider it helping someone out and getting paid for it as a huge bonus.

Why is your opinion the only one that counts? Are you imagining yourself as Judge Judy?

NP. Many women have been forced and coerced into surrogacy. I watched a documentary about surrogates in India, and one man decided that his wife was going to be a surrogate to supplement his income. She was forced to stay away from her own child for the duration of her pregnancy and live in a baby mill. When she gave birth, she was treated as subhuman by the doctors, who showed complete disregard for her. After the birth, her husband was so thrilled with the money that he decided to make her do it again. Luckily commercial surrogacy is illegal there now, but this clearly illustrates the ways in which surrogacy can be used to exploit women. Also, the average US surrogate isn't making anywhere near $100k. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

Why don’t you watch a documentary of how women are generally treated in India? They drown out their baby daughters and burn rape victims to death, too. Do you think this guy was an otherwise upstanding husband?

For some of these women, surrogacy opens a million doors and a lot of freedom. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

I'm Indian and I don't need to learn about women in India. You're also engaging in whataboutism again, which is completely illogical. Just because some poor women are exploited and abused in terrible ways certainly doesn't justify legalizing another way to exploit and abuse poor women exclusively. Luckily the Indian government is smarter than you and has banned commercial surrogacy, finding it unethical - like most of the world. Surrogacy isn't "opening doors" for poor women any more than prostitution. A year later, these surrogates aren't suddenly climbing the success ladder, going to college, or being boss girl.

As an Indian you should be ashamed of the caste system, of the slums, of the lack of public toilets and the many inherent elements of Indian culture which completely prevent a person from rising above their station at birth. But it’s a lot easier to rant about a fringe, niche surrogacy industry than it is to actually fix the numerous real problems in your country. I used to blame the British and colonialism, but after seeing how a lot of Indians see the world, I don’t anymore.

What’s gross is your weird entitlement to the wombs of impoverished Indian women. Like you know what’s best for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Youre probably (precisely) right that the rich in those countries dont care about the poor, and especially the poor women. But purposely seeking out a poor country to leverage your $ against someone elses body is gross. I don't love the idea of going to a poor country and waving your money around, looking to exploit someone. Basically buying a slave for 10 months (at least). Going to a poor country also means its more likely that the surrogate has less protections, may not be aware of any legal issues, etc. Much easier to take advantage of a poor impoverished woman from a developing nation rather than pay an appropriate market price for her body. Whatever that price is supposed to be.

A surrogate isn’t a slave. It’s offensive for you to equate the two. It’s not like anyone is kidnapped and forced to carry other people’s kids. It’s a CHOICE for the surrogates. No one is waving money around. OP doesn’t have $200,000. She has half that. That’s a lot of money for someone in most countries outside of the US, Canada, Israel, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It actually comes out to much more money for the surrogate.

Why are you deciding for other women how they can make money? I, for one, loved being pregnant. I would happily do it for money, especially if I needed some, but I’m in my late 40s and think that I’d be pushing it at this stage. I wouldn’t consider it selling my body. I’d consider it helping someone out and getting paid for it as a huge bonus.

Why is your opinion the only one that counts? Are you imagining yourself as Judge Judy?

NP. Many women have been forced and coerced into surrogacy. I watched a documentary about surrogates in India, and one man decided that his wife was going to be a surrogate to supplement his income. She was forced to stay away from her own child for the duration of her pregnancy and live in a baby mill. When she gave birth, she was treated as subhuman by the doctors, who showed complete disregard for her. After the birth, her husband was so thrilled with the money that he decided to make her do it again. Luckily commercial surrogacy is illegal there now, but this clearly illustrates the ways in which surrogacy can be used to exploit women. Also, the average US surrogate isn't making anywhere near $100k. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

Why don’t you watch a documentary of how women are generally treated in India? They drown out their baby daughters and burn rape victims to death, too. Do you think this guy was an otherwise upstanding husband?

For some of these women, surrogacy opens a million doors and a lot of freedom. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

I'm Indian and I don't need to learn about women in India. You're also engaging in whataboutism again, which is completely illogical. Just because some poor women are exploited and abused in terrible ways certainly doesn't justify legalizing another way to exploit and abuse poor women exclusively. Luckily the Indian government is smarter than you and has banned commercial surrogacy, finding it unethical - like most of the world. Surrogacy isn't "opening doors" for poor women any more than prostitution. A year later, these surrogates aren't suddenly climbing the success ladder, going to college, or being boss girl.

As an Indian you should be ashamed of the caste system, of the slums, of the lack of public toilets and the many inherent elements of Indian culture which completely prevent a person from rising above their station at birth. But it’s a lot easier to rant about a fringe, niche surrogacy industry than it is to actually fix the numerous real problems in your country. I used to blame the British and colonialism, but after seeing how a lot of Indians see the world, I don’t anymore.

What’s gross is your weird entitlement to the wombs of impoverished Indian women. Like you know what’s best for them.

I feel no entitlement to anyone’s womb. I just believe that paid surrogacy is a perfectly ethical CHOICE. I also believe that most women living in India have a lot more to worry about than surrogacy or our opinions about what’s best for them.

For what it’s worth, I’m Ukrainian and would have gone that route if I needed a surrogate. I know Ukrainian women who were surrogates and they loved it, thought it was easy money. Nobody felt exploited. But go ahead and build shackles in your head.

[Anonymous]

NP. I’ve lived in a few 3rd world countries for work. Mostly women cannot support themselves by working full time, they must rely on the financial support of a man. Is that ethical? No but it’s reality in most of the world. I think if a woman there chooses to be a surrogate then let her. If she thinks it’s fair compensation it’s not unethical IMO. OP I’m so sorry for your losses and hope you find a solution. Sorry l have no experience to share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Youre probably (precisely) right that the rich in those countries dont care about the poor, and especially the poor women. But purposely seeking out a poor country to leverage your $ against someone elses body is gross. I don't love the idea of going to a poor country and waving your money around, looking to exploit someone. Basically buying a slave for 10 months (at least). Going to a poor country also means its more likely that the surrogate has less protections, may not be aware of any legal issues, etc. Much easier to take advantage of a poor impoverished woman from a developing nation rather than pay an appropriate market price for her body. Whatever that price is supposed to be.

A surrogate isn’t a slave. It’s offensive for you to equate the two. It’s not like anyone is kidnapped and forced to carry other people’s kids. It’s a CHOICE for the surrogates. No one is waving money around. OP doesn’t have $200,000. She has half that. That’s a lot of money for someone in most countries outside of the US, Canada, Israel, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It actually comes out to much more money for the surrogate.

Why are you deciding for other women how they can make money? I, for one, loved being pregnant. I would happily do it for money, especially if I needed some, but I’m in my late 40s and think that I’d be pushing it at this stage. I wouldn’t consider it selling my body. I’d consider it helping someone out and getting paid for it as a huge bonus.

Why is your opinion the only one that counts? Are you imagining yourself as Judge Judy?

NP. Many women have been forced and coerced into surrogacy. I watched a documentary about surrogates in India, and one man decided that his wife was going to be a surrogate to supplement his income. She was forced to stay away from her own child for the duration of her pregnancy and live in a baby mill. When she gave birth, she was treated as subhuman by the doctors, who showed complete disregard for her. After the birth, her husband was so thrilled with the money that he decided to make her do it again. Luckily commercial surrogacy is illegal there now, but this clearly illustrates the ways in which surrogacy can be used to exploit women. Also, the average US surrogate isn't making anywhere near $100k. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

Why don’t you watch a documentary of how women are generally treated in India? They drown out their baby daughters and burn rape victims to death, too. Do you think this guy was an otherwise upstanding husband?

For some of these women, surrogacy opens a million doors and a lot of freedom. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

I'm Indian and I don't need to learn about women in India. You're also engaging in whataboutism again, which is completely illogical. Just because some poor women are exploited and abused in terrible ways certainly doesn't justify legalizing another way to exploit and abuse poor women exclusively. Luckily the Indian government is smarter than you and has banned commercial surrogacy, finding it unethical - like most of the world. Surrogacy isn't "opening doors" for poor women any more than prostitution. A year later, these surrogates aren't suddenly climbing the success ladder, going to college, or being boss girl.

As an Indian you should be ashamed of the caste system, of the slums, of the lack of public toilets and the many inherent elements of Indian culture which completely prevent a person from rising above their station at birth. But it’s a lot easier to rant about a fringe, niche surrogacy industry than it is to actually fix the numerous real problems in your country. I used to blame the British and colonialism, but after seeing how a lot of Indians see the world, I don’t anymore.

What’s gross is your weird entitlement to the wombs of impoverished Indian women. Like you know what’s best for them.

I feel no entitlement to anyone’s womb. I just believe that paid surrogacy is a perfectly ethical CHOICE. I also believe that most women living in India have a lot more to worry about than surrogacy or our opinions about what’s best for them.

For what it’s worth, I’m Ukrainian and would have gone that route if I needed a surrogate. I know Ukrainian women who were surrogates and they loved it, thought it was easy money. Nobody felt exploited. But go ahead and build shackles in your head.

You obviously have no clue how many Indian surrogates were treated otherwise you wouldn’t be embarrassing yourself like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Youre probably (precisely) right that the rich in those countries dont care about the poor, and especially the poor women. But purposely seeking out a poor country to leverage your $ against someone elses body is gross. I don't love the idea of going to a poor country and waving your money around, looking to exploit someone. Basically buying a slave for 10 months (at least). Going to a poor country also means its more likely that the surrogate has less protections, may not be aware of any legal issues, etc. Much easier to take advantage of a poor impoverished woman from a developing nation rather than pay an appropriate market price for her body. Whatever that price is supposed to be.

A surrogate isn’t a slave. It’s offensive for you to equate the two. It’s not like anyone is kidnapped and forced to carry other people’s kids. It’s a CHOICE for the surrogates. No one is waving money around. OP doesn’t have $200,000. She has half that. That’s a lot of money for someone in most countries outside of the US, Canada, Israel, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It actually comes out to much more money for the surrogate.

Why are you deciding for other women how they can make money? I, for one, loved being pregnant. I would happily do it for money, especially if I needed some, but I’m in my late 40s and think that I’d be pushing it at this stage. I wouldn’t consider it selling my body. I’d consider it helping someone out and getting paid for it as a huge bonus.

Why is your opinion the only one that counts? Are you imagining yourself as Judge Judy?

NP. Many women have been forced and coerced into surrogacy. I watched a documentary about surrogates in India, and one man decided that his wife was going to be a surrogate to supplement his income. She was forced to stay away from her own child for the duration of her pregnancy and live in a baby mill. When she gave birth, she was treated as subhuman by the doctors, who showed complete disregard for her. After the birth, her husband was so thrilled with the money that he decided to make her do it again. Luckily commercial surrogacy is illegal there now, but this clearly illustrates the ways in which surrogacy can be used to exploit women. Also, the average US surrogate isn't making anywhere near $100k. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

Why don’t you watch a documentary of how women are generally treated in India? They drown out their baby daughters and burn rape victims to death, too. Do you think this guy was an otherwise upstanding husband?

For some of these women, surrogacy opens a million doors and a lot of freedom. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

I'm Indian and I don't need to learn about women in India. You're also engaging in whataboutism again, which is completely illogical. Just because some poor women are exploited and abused in terrible ways certainly doesn't justify legalizing another way to exploit and abuse poor women exclusively. Luckily the Indian government is smarter than you and has banned commercial surrogacy, finding it unethical - like most of the world. Surrogacy isn't "opening doors" for poor women any more than prostitution. A year later, these surrogates aren't suddenly climbing the success ladder, going to college, or being boss girl.

As an Indian you should be ashamed of the caste system, of the slums, of the lack of public toilets and the many inherent elements of Indian culture which completely prevent a person from rising above their station at birth. But it’s a lot easier to rant about a fringe, niche surrogacy industry than it is to actually fix the numerous real problems in your country. I used to blame the British and colonialism, but after seeing how a lot of Indians see the world, I don’t anymore.

What’s gross is your weird entitlement to the wombs of impoverished Indian women. Like you know what’s best for them.

I feel no entitlement to anyone’s womb. I just believe that paid surrogacy is a perfectly ethical CHOICE. I also believe that most women living in India have a lot more to worry about than surrogacy or our opinions about what’s best for them.

For what it’s worth, I’m Ukrainian and would have gone that route if I needed a surrogate. I know Ukrainian women who were surrogates and they loved it, thought it was easy money. Nobody felt exploited. But go ahead and build shackles in your head.

You obviously have no clue how many Indian surrogates were treated otherwise you wouldn’t be embarrassing yourself like this.

One hopes that is the case. Otherwise the PP is horrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Youre probably (precisely) right that the rich in those countries dont care about the poor, and especially the poor women. But purposely seeking out a poor country to leverage your $ against someone elses body is gross. I don't love the idea of going to a poor country and waving your money around, looking to exploit someone. Basically buying a slave for 10 months (at least). Going to a poor country also means its more likely that the surrogate has less protections, may not be aware of any legal issues, etc. Much easier to take advantage of a poor impoverished woman from a developing nation rather than pay an appropriate market price for her body. Whatever that price is supposed to be.

A surrogate isn’t a slave. It’s offensive for you to equate the two. It’s not like anyone is kidnapped and forced to carry other people’s kids. It’s a CHOICE for the surrogates. No one is waving money around. OP doesn’t have $200,000. She has half that. That’s a lot of money for someone in most countries outside of the US, Canada, Israel, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It actually comes out to much more money for the surrogate.

Why are you deciding for other women how they can make money? I, for one, loved being pregnant. I would happily do it for money, especially if I needed some, but I’m in my late 40s and think that I’d be pushing it at this stage. I wouldn’t consider it selling my body. I’d consider it helping someone out and getting paid for it as a huge bonus.

Why is your opinion the only one that counts? Are you imagining yourself as Judge Judy?

NP. Many women have been forced and coerced into surrogacy. I watched a documentary about surrogates in India, and one man decided that his wife was going to be a surrogate to supplement his income. She was forced to stay away from her own child for the duration of her pregnancy and live in a baby mill. When she gave birth, she was treated as subhuman by the doctors, who showed complete disregard for her. After the birth, her husband was so thrilled with the money that he decided to make her do it again. Luckily commercial surrogacy is illegal there now, but this clearly illustrates the ways in which surrogacy can be used to exploit women. Also, the average US surrogate isn't making anywhere near $100k. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

Why don’t you watch a documentary of how women are generally treated in India? They drown out their baby daughters and burn rape victims to death, too. Do you think this guy was an otherwise upstanding husband?

For some of these women, surrogacy opens a million doors and a lot of freedom. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

I'm Indian and I don't need to learn about women in India. You're also engaging in whataboutism again, which is completely illogical. Just because some poor women are exploited and abused in terrible ways certainly doesn't justify legalizing another way to exploit and abuse poor women exclusively. Luckily the Indian government is smarter than you and has banned commercial surrogacy, finding it unethical - like most of the world. Surrogacy isn't "opening doors" for poor women any more than prostitution. A year later, these surrogates aren't suddenly climbing the success ladder, going to college, or being boss girl.

As an Indian you should be ashamed of the caste system, of the slums, of the lack of public toilets and the many inherent elements of Indian culture which completely prevent a person from rising above their station at birth. But it’s a lot easier to rant about a fringe, niche surrogacy industry than it is to actually fix the numerous real problems in your country. I used to blame the British and colonialism, but after seeing how a lot of Indians see the world, I don’t anymore.

What’s gross is your weird entitlement to the wombs of impoverished Indian women. Like you know what’s best for them.

I feel no entitlement to anyone’s womb. I just believe that paid surrogacy is a perfectly ethical CHOICE. I also believe that most women living in India have a lot more to worry about than surrogacy or our opinions about what’s best for them.

For what it’s worth, I’m Ukrainian and would have gone that route if I needed a surrogate. I know Ukrainian women who were surrogates and they loved it, thought it was easy money. Nobody felt exploited. But go ahead and build shackles in your head.

You should be ashamed.

https://www.indiatimes.com/explainers/news/ukraine-the-baby-factory-of-the-world-558590.html

"Many women who opted to become surrogates say that the conditions for them are terrible...Most of the women come from small villages and are in hopeless situations. They spend the first few weeks lying around, crying. Women are sometimes not paid promised amounts or are housed in terrible conditions during the later stages of their pregnancies. In some cases, parents have discovered they have no genetic link with children born to surrogates. Authorities suspect some clinics are also using surrogacy as a cover for illegal commercial adoptions."

'"Ukraine is becoming an international online baby store," the country's commissioner for children's rights Mykola Kuleba warned, condemning the "exploitation" of Ukrainian women and calling for a ban on the industry.'

[Anonymous]

OP, you obviously aren’t going to get anything approaching useful input here, only a bunch of knee jerk moralizing by “just adopt!!1!”-ers.

I hope you find your way to one of the less crazy parts of the Internet, and I wish you well on your journey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want to travel to some poor country and pay an impoverished woman to get pregnant and carry your child? That seems ethical to you?

Bet you pay impoverished women to produce your adorbz housewares and clothing all the time. Hypocrite.

You think producing clothing is the same effect on a body as carrying a child? Are you a man or something? No way a woman would compare these two.

Speak for yourself. I’m a woman and I’d much rather get well paid for being pregnant again than work for less than minimum wage in a factory.

How do we determine what is well paid to carry a pregnancy and birth a child?

OP is trying to cut corners and pay as little as possible by going to a poor country. How much is a bio child worth?

A biological child is priceless to me. I am thankful that fertility was a nonissue for me, but I know I would never adopt. DH has an adopted sister who has been nothing but a heartache for his family. She was adopted as a baby. She was treated with love and kindness, but became a nightmare in high school and it has never stopped. She is mentally ill, most likely inherited, and has repeated problems with drug abuse and the law and with running away. My in laws have done everything imaginable for her, but it’s useless. Sure, this can happen with a biological child, but it’s different when it does. My in laws feel burdened in a way that wouldn’t with a biological child.

OP isn’t trying to cut corners as you say. She says she has around $50,000 to $70,000 to spend on a surrogate. She is seeking to find one in a country where that is a lot more money than $200,000 is in the US. Do you know what kind of a difference $20,000, let alone $50,000 would make to a poor woman in India. It’s a shame this was outlawed there. The rich people in that country really do not care about the poor ones and will do anything to keep them down, under the guise of “protecting” them.

Do not pay attention to these trolls, OP! Good luck to you!!!

Youre probably (precisely) right that the rich in those countries dont care about the poor, and especially the poor women. But purposely seeking out a poor country to leverage your $ against someone elses body is gross. I don't love the idea of going to a poor country and waving your money around, looking to exploit someone. Basically buying a slave for 10 months (at least). Going to a poor country also means its more likely that the surrogate has less protections, may not be aware of any legal issues, etc. Much easier to take advantage of a poor impoverished woman from a developing nation rather than pay an appropriate market price for her body. Whatever that price is supposed to be.

A surrogate isn’t a slave. It’s offensive for you to equate the two. It’s not like anyone is kidnapped and forced to carry other people’s kids. It’s a CHOICE for the surrogates. No one is waving money around. OP doesn’t have $200,000. She has half that. That’s a lot of money for someone in most countries outside of the US, Canada, Israel, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. It actually comes out to much more money for the surrogate.

Why are you deciding for other women how they can make money? I, for one, loved being pregnant. I would happily do it for money, especially if I needed some, but I’m in my late 40s and think that I’d be pushing it at this stage. I wouldn’t consider it selling my body. I’d consider it helping someone out and getting paid for it as a huge bonus.

Why is your opinion the only one that counts? Are you imagining yourself as Judge Judy?

NP. Many women have been forced and coerced into surrogacy. I watched a documentary about surrogates in India, and one man decided that his wife was going to be a surrogate to supplement his income. She was forced to stay away from her own child for the duration of her pregnancy and live in a baby mill. When she gave birth, she was treated as subhuman by the doctors, who showed complete disregard for her. After the birth, her husband was so thrilled with the money that he decided to make her do it again. Luckily commercial surrogacy is illegal there now, but this clearly illustrates the ways in which surrogacy can be used to exploit women. Also, the average US surrogate isn't making anywhere near $100k. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

Why don’t you watch a documentary of how women are generally treated in India? They drown out their baby daughters and burn rape victims to death, too. Do you think this guy was an otherwise upstanding husband?

For some of these women, surrogacy opens a million doors and a lot of freedom. To put it charitably, you sound incredibly naive.

I'm Indian and I don't need to learn about women in India. You're also engaging in whataboutism again, which is completely illogical. Just because some poor women are exploited and abused in terrible ways certainly doesn't justify legalizing another way to exploit and abuse poor women exclusively. Luckily the Indian government is smarter than you and has banned commercial surrogacy, finding it unethical - like most of the world. Surrogacy isn't "opening doors" for poor women any more than prostitution. A year later, these surrogates aren't suddenly climbing the success ladder, going to college, or being boss girl.

As an Indian you should be ashamed of the caste system, of the slums, of the lack of public toilets and the many inherent elements of Indian culture which completely prevent a person from rising above their station at birth. But it’s a lot easier to rant about a fringe, niche surrogacy industry than it is to actually fix the numerous real problems in your country. I used to blame the British and colonialism, but after seeing how a lot of Indians see the world, I don’t anymore.

What’s gross is your weird entitlement to the wombs of impoverished Indian women. Like you know what’s best for them.

I feel no entitlement to anyone’s womb. I just believe that paid surrogacy is a perfectly ethical CHOICE. I also believe that most women living in India have a lot more to worry about than surrogacy or our opinions about what’s best for them.

For what it’s worth, I’m Ukrainian and would have gone that route if I needed a surrogate. I know Ukrainian women who were surrogates and they loved it, thought it was easy money. Nobody felt exploited. But go ahead and build shackles in your head.

You should be ashamed.

https://www.indiatimes.com/explainers/news/ukraine-the-baby-factory-of-the-world-558590.html

"Many women who opted to become surrogates say that the conditions for them are terrible...Most of the women come from small villages and are in hopeless situations. They spend the first few weeks lying around, crying. Women are sometimes not paid promised amounts or are housed in terrible conditions during the later stages of their pregnancies. In some cases, parents have discovered they have no genetic link with children born to surrogates. Authorities suspect some clinics are also using surrogacy as a cover for illegal commercial adoptions."

'"Ukraine is becoming an international online baby store," the country's commissioner for children's rights Mykola Kuleba warned, condemning the "exploitation" of Ukrainian women and calling for a ban on the industry.'

I’m not. Sorry. As a Ukrainian I can honestly say it’s a highly corrupt country, officials included. As with India, surrogacy is the least of their issues. (Also, as an fyi, I wouldn’t use an agency, I’d be able to work directly with a potential surrogate, as I already know a few.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you obviously aren’t going to get anything approaching useful input here, only a bunch of knee jerk moralizing by “just adopt!!1!”-ers.

I hope you find your way to one of the less crazy parts of the Internet, and I wish you well on your journey.

It’s worse than “just adopters.” (You must have missed the rant about the evils of international adoptions.) It’s more like: “you must adopt teenage Americans in the foster care system (but only if they’re the same race as you are), otherwise you’re an evil, racist exploiting child the poor.”

I have no idea where these disgusting trolls come from.

[Anonymous]

It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

What’s appalling is voicing your unwanted opinion over and over again. You’re trying to be like one of those awful protestors picketing outside of an abortion clinic. But here, no one sees you. You are nothing more than obnoxious noise. Guess what? You’re not going to intimidate anyone out of using a surrogate. We don’t think it’s wrong. You can keep typing away, your opinion is worthless to anyone who matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

x 1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s remarkable to me how many people will absolutely ignore profound ethical problems in their drive to acquire a child. Just appalling.

It’s remarkable to me how many people are convinced that if someone doesn’t agree with their position, that person must be absolutely ignoring profound ethical problems. It can’t possibly be true that someone else has looked at the same set of facts and come to a different conclusion.

Are you the “DNA dolly” poster? Or are you just similarly arrogant and entrenched in your own sense of absolute righteousness?