Surrogacy abroad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

if what happens? I asked this upthread and you still havent answered?

What is the line where its justifiable to impregnate women like cattle and buy their baby?

This is incredibly insulting towards women who choose to become surrogates.

When cattle are sentient, can make their own decisions about their bodies, and are fairly compensated for their labor, it will be a fair analogy. Until then, you’re babbling.

Your dogged refusal to allow these women any agency at all is pretty gross and paternalistic.

What is this? Who decides? Have you read the articles posted about this being borderline trafficking?

Those pearls of journalistic wisdom you are referring to is just one article by a muck journalist for the India Times who has been discredited for making up propaganda and lies many times.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/india-times-shweta-sengar-fake-news-propaganda/amp/

Don’t you think if you were hired to try to justify ending surrogacy in India, you’d make up lies about what was happening with surrogacy in Ukraine? I don’t believe a syllable of that article. It’s hardly a hard hitting article by a respected, trusted journalist.

India Times isn't good enough? You want more? It's not hard to google. Here's a BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

"We have seen examples where Ukrainian agencies have refused to pay the surrogate if she doesn't adhere to strict requirements, if she miscarries," says Mr Everingham. "There are some awful examples where agencies really treated surrogates dreadfully in Ukraine if things haven't worked out to the benefit of parents."

"The industry, Ms Bogomolets says, is not sufficiently regulated and this lack of oversight can put both surrogate mothers and the paying parents at risk."

And another:

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Ukraine/Surrogate-motherhood-and-exploitation-in-Ukraine-203929

"...many clinics (not registered or under a false name), foreign couples, intermediary agencies, or even improvised surrogate mothers do things under the table in order not to pay taxes, obviously without taking care of any consequences if something goes wrong."

' "Two-thirds of the surrogacy market in Ukraine is illegal", says Serhiy Antonov, jurist at IRTSA Ukraine (International Agency for Assistance in Auxiliary Reproduction Technologies), who stresses how easy it is to find surrogate mothers on social networks, instant messaging services (Viber, Telegram), job search platforms, or even on advertising spaces on the underground.'

Take a closer look at those articles. They’re basically the same thing as the first India Times one. Look at article number two. Like the India Times article it’s obvious Islamic propaganda from Al Jezeera. Sharia law prohibits surrogacy.

I’m not a Muslim and will never be, but I’ll bet the guy, Kevin Ponniah, who wrote the BBC article is.

You can’t keep showing me articles from journalists blinded by their Islamic faith and call that evidence of the immorality of surrogacy.

I’ll hardly defer to sharia law on any moral grounds let alone women’s rights issues.

What makes you think that? From a quick Google tour, Mr. Pooniah is born and raised in Australia. There are obviously Muslims in Australia, but what exactly is it about a guy named "Kevin" that makes you think he's promulgating Shari'a law?

PP, I said that because I was trying to get a rise out of the anti surrogacy troll. If you read the whole article, it’s very neutral. I have no idea what Kevin’s background is, but I knew what I said would bother the evil troll who keeps badgering infertile women with her unwanted opinions. And yes, she can take her religion and shove it!

I’m not the PP but this is shocking and awful. You are engaging in disgusting anti-Muslim racism, especially at a time like this globally in the world, just to “get a rise” out of multiple people? What is wrong with you? You do understand that this kind of behavior really weakens your stance, not strengthens it? Anyone who can casually use racism as some sort of joke gotcha is in no position to try to shut down a discussion about very serious issues of exploitation and ethics. You are awful to do this. Just awful.

And you don’t think Sunni Sharia law plays any role in outlawing surrogacy throughout the world? Because it certainly does.

I, for one, am very excited to hear about how "Sunni Sharia law" influenced the decision of a Hindu nationalist government and two predominantly Orthodox countries to outlaw surrogacy.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I disagree with pretty much everything in Islam and I have a problem with Sharia law being enforced on me. You probably wouldn’t bat an eye if I said the same thing about the Catholic Church. But based on the specific articles PPs have shared, I’m guessing they aren’t Catholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I disagree with pretty much everything in Islam and I have a problem with Sharia law being enforced on me. You probably wouldn’t bat an eye if I said the same thing about the Catholic Church. But based on the specific articles PPs have shared, I’m guessing they aren’t Catholic.

I think we can all agree that religions should not make laws, but that's not what is happening here. You made the claim that "Sunni Sharia law" is a driving force in the outlawing of commercial surrogacy. In fact, outlawing commercial surrogacy is the predictable outcome of previous human rights abuses. So it's on you to draw a clean line between the decisions of countries like Russia, India, and Georgia, to ban commercial surrogacy. Show us the link between those countries and Sharia. Or, we can just look at what the governments said when they outlawed it, which was that commercial surrogacy harmed women and babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

if what happens? I asked this upthread and you still havent answered?

What is the line where its justifiable to impregnate women like cattle and buy their baby?

This is incredibly insulting towards women who choose to become surrogates.

When cattle are sentient, can make their own decisions about their bodies, and are fairly compensated for their labor, it will be a fair analogy. Until then, you’re babbling.

Your dogged refusal to allow these women any agency at all is pretty gross and paternalistic.

What is this? Who decides? Have you read the articles posted about this being borderline trafficking?

Those pearls of journalistic wisdom you are referring to is just one article by a muck journalist for the India Times who has been discredited for making up propaganda and lies many times.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/india-times-shweta-sengar-fake-news-propaganda/amp/

Don’t you think if you were hired to try to justify ending surrogacy in India, you’d make up lies about what was happening with surrogacy in Ukraine? I don’t believe a syllable of that article. It’s hardly a hard hitting article by a respected, trusted journalist.

India Times isn't good enough? You want more? It's not hard to google. Here's a BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

"We have seen examples where Ukrainian agencies have refused to pay the surrogate if she doesn't adhere to strict requirements, if she miscarries," says Mr Everingham. "There are some awful examples where agencies really treated surrogates dreadfully in Ukraine if things haven't worked out to the benefit of parents."

"The industry, Ms Bogomolets says, is not sufficiently regulated and this lack of oversight can put both surrogate mothers and the paying parents at risk."

And another:

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Ukraine/Surrogate-motherhood-and-exploitation-in-Ukraine-203929

"...many clinics (not registered or under a false name), foreign couples, intermediary agencies, or even improvised surrogate mothers do things under the table in order not to pay taxes, obviously without taking care of any consequences if something goes wrong."

' "Two-thirds of the surrogacy market in Ukraine is illegal", says Serhiy Antonov, jurist at IRTSA Ukraine (International Agency for Assistance in Auxiliary Reproduction Technologies), who stresses how easy it is to find surrogate mothers on social networks, instant messaging services (Viber, Telegram), job search platforms, or even on advertising spaces on the underground.'

Take a closer look at those articles. They’re basically the same thing as the first India Times one. Look at article number two. Like the India Times article it’s obvious Islamic propaganda from Al Jezeera. Sharia law prohibits surrogacy.

I’m not a Muslim and will never be, but I’ll bet the guy, Kevin Ponniah, who wrote the BBC article is.

You can’t keep showing me articles from journalists blinded by their Islamic faith and call that evidence of the immorality of surrogacy.

I’ll hardly defer to sharia law on any moral grounds let alone women’s rights issues.

What makes you think that? From a quick Google tour, Mr. Pooniah is born and raised in Australia. There are obviously Muslims in Australia, but what exactly is it about a guy named "Kevin" that makes you think he's promulgating Shari'a law?

PP, I said that because I was trying to get a rise out of the anti surrogacy troll. If you read the whole article, it’s very neutral. I have no idea what Kevin’s background is, but I knew what I said would bother the evil troll who keeps badgering infertile women with her unwanted opinions. And yes, she can take her religion and shove it!

I’m not the PP but this is shocking and awful. You are engaging in disgusting anti-Muslim racism, especially at a time like this globally in the world, just to “get a rise” out of multiple people? What is wrong with you? You do understand that this kind of behavior really weakens your stance, not strengthens it? Anyone who can casually use racism as some sort of joke gotcha is in no position to try to shut down a discussion about very serious issues of exploitation and ethics. You are awful to do this. Just awful.

+1

This is actually a racism twofer.

First, the idea that all brown people must be Muslim.

Second, the idea that a Muslim BBC journalist would not be able to objectively report on a well documented series of human rights abuses.

Yeah, that pro-surrogacy poster is doing an excellent job at showing the moral and ethical vacuum that exists in the proponents of international surrogacy. The anti-Muslim racism (which she seems to be doubling down on above) is truly shocking.

I can’t believe that the pro-surrogacy posters have reached the point where they’re proudly using explicit racism to defend well-documented human rights abuses, but I guess maybe I should not be surprised.

[Anonymous]

If the OP is still reading, I'd ask her to look a little deeper.

So, "Georgia is out."

Why is Georgia out? What made the Government of Georgia take that step? Rather than just listing countries that are "out," it might make sense to really ask yourself why, if surrogacy is ethical and normal, it is increasingly being curtailed.

PP would like you to believe that "Sunni Sharia law" is the reason, but that explanation doesn't make any sense when you look at the countries we are discussing.

So what does make sense? If the human rights abuses in Georgia were bad enough for the government to outlaw the practice, shouldn't that give anyone pause?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

Uh huh. That’s why you’re so defensive and insecure in your choice.

I never had a surrogate and easily popped out kids. So, you can’t accuse me of feeling desperate or defensive about it. I support it wholeheartedly.

I think it’s a miracle of medical science and humanity that doctors can take a little egg, a tiny sperm and create an embryo in a Petri dish to then implant in a willing surrogate. It’s amazing that the surrogate’s body doesn’t reject the foreign dna and that a baby can grow.

I am delighted for the infertile women (and their husbands if they have them) who can now have the babies they dreamed about. I’m thrilled that gay men are no longer relegated to be uncles or doggie daddies and can have a family and be loved as a parent like everyone else.

I do not think paid surrogacy is immoral, appalling or bad in any way. I am sure that things can go wrong, but for me the good outweighs the potential bad.

To the rabid anti surrogacy posters, I have this to say: there is no argument you can make that will persuade me to change my views on the subject. My opinion isn’t relevant to you, I get it, but yours is unwarranted on an infertility board where people are seeking support in achieving the families THEY want. It’s not about you.

Can’t you all leave this board and get together and form some sort of private anti surrogacy one? You can email each other back and forth about the evils of surrogacy, and equate it to slavery until the cows come home.

But can’t you just get lost from this infertility support group? You’re insensitive and misguided to say the least.

Get lost!

Ha! You open your post boasting about how you "easily popped out kids" like a goddamn brood mare, and then have the breathtaking audacity to accuse people against surrogacy of being insensitive? Lady, take a good hard look at yourself. You lack all self-awareness and are a raging hypocrite. Why are YOU in this thread if you're ceaselessly filling your womb with babies? Don't you have some asses to wipe? Isn't it time for another insemination?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

Uh huh. That’s why you’re so defensive and insecure in your choice.

Why would I be defensive and insecure? My wonderful GC is a college graduate, happily married with 4 kids of her own in a mid-Western town and was also GC for another family. We have always maintained a close bond with her and her family. Continue spewing your bile if you choose to.

I don't know why you're defensive and insecure, but you are. It oozes out of every post you write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

if what happens? I asked this upthread and you still havent answered?

What is the line where its justifiable to impregnate women like cattle and buy their baby?

This is incredibly insulting towards women who choose to become surrogates.

When cattle are sentient, can make their own decisions about their bodies, and are fairly compensated for their labor, it will be a fair analogy. Until then, you’re babbling.

Your dogged refusal to allow these women any agency at all is pretty gross and paternalistic.

What is this? Who decides? Have you read the articles posted about this being borderline trafficking?

Those pearls of journalistic wisdom you are referring to is just one article by a muck journalist for the India Times who has been discredited for making up propaganda and lies many times.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/india-times-shweta-sengar-fake-news-propaganda/amp/

Don’t you think if you were hired to try to justify ending surrogacy in India, you’d make up lies about what was happening with surrogacy in Ukraine? I don’t believe a syllable of that article. It’s hardly a hard hitting article by a respected, trusted journalist.

India Times isn't good enough? You want more? It's not hard to google. Here's a BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

"We have seen examples where Ukrainian agencies have refused to pay the surrogate if she doesn't adhere to strict requirements, if she miscarries," says Mr Everingham. "There are some awful examples where agencies really treated surrogates dreadfully in Ukraine if things haven't worked out to the benefit of parents."

"The industry, Ms Bogomolets says, is not sufficiently regulated and this lack of oversight can put both surrogate mothers and the paying parents at risk."

And another:

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Ukraine/Surrogate-motherhood-and-exploitation-in-Ukraine-203929

"...many clinics (not registered or under a false name), foreign couples, intermediary agencies, or even improvised surrogate mothers do things under the table in order not to pay taxes, obviously without taking care of any consequences if something goes wrong."

' "Two-thirds of the surrogacy market in Ukraine is illegal", says Serhiy Antonov, jurist at IRTSA Ukraine (International Agency for Assistance in Auxiliary Reproduction Technologies), who stresses how easy it is to find surrogate mothers on social networks, instant messaging services (Viber, Telegram), job search platforms, or even on advertising spaces on the underground.'

Take a closer look at those articles. They’re basically the same thing as the first India Times one. Look at article number two. Like the India Times article it’s obvious Islamic propaganda from Al Jezeera. Sharia law prohibits surrogacy.

I’m not a Muslim and will never be, but I’ll bet the guy, Kevin Ponniah, who wrote the BBC article is.

You can’t keep showing me articles from journalists blinded by their Islamic faith and call that evidence of the immorality of surrogacy.

I’ll hardly defer to sharia law on any moral grounds let alone women’s rights issues.

What makes you think that? From a quick Google tour, Mr. Pooniah is born and raised in Australia. There are obviously Muslims in Australia, but what exactly is it about a guy named "Kevin" that makes you think he's promulgating Shari'a law?

PP, I said that because I was trying to get a rise out of the anti surrogacy troll. If you read the whole article, it’s very neutral. I have no idea what Kevin’s background is, but I knew what I said would bother the evil troll who keeps badgering infertile women with her unwanted opinions. And yes, she can take her religion and shove it!

I’m not the PP but this is shocking and awful. You are engaging in disgusting anti-Muslim racism, especially at a time like this globally in the world, just to “get a rise” out of multiple people? What is wrong with you? You do understand that this kind of behavior really weakens your stance, not strengthens it? Anyone who can casually use racism as some sort of joke gotcha is in no position to try to shut down a discussion about very serious issues of exploitation and ethics. You are awful to do this. Just awful.

+1

This is actually a racism twofer.

First, the idea that all brown people must be Muslim.

Second, the idea that a Muslim BBC journalist would not be able to objectively report on a well documented series of human rights abuses.

Yeah, that pro-surrogacy poster is doing an excellent job at showing the moral and ethical vacuum that exists in the proponents of international surrogacy. The anti-Muslim racism (which she seems to be doubling down on above) is truly shocking.

I can’t believe that the pro-surrogacy posters have reached the point where they’re proudly using explicit racism to defend well-documented human rights abuses, but I guess maybe I should not be surprised.

"I can’t believe that the pro-surrogacy posters have reached the point where they’re proudly using explicit racism to defend well-documented human rights abuses, but I guess maybe I should not be surprised"
+1
I'd actually surmise it's right on the nose - rich americans think so little of poor people, especially in other countries. They are more than willing to abuse them to get what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

Uh huh. That’s why you’re so defensive and insecure in your choice.

I never had a surrogate and easily popped out kids. So, you can’t accuse me of feeling desperate or defensive about it. I support it wholeheartedly.

I think it’s a miracle of medical science and humanity that doctors can take a little egg, a tiny sperm and create an embryo in a Petri dish to then implant in a willing surrogate. It’s amazing that the surrogate’s body doesn’t reject the foreign dna and that a baby can grow.

I am delighted for the infertile women (and their husbands if they have them) who can now have the babies they dreamed about. I’m thrilled that gay men are no longer relegated to be uncles or doggie daddies and can have a family and be loved as a parent like everyone else.

I do not think paid surrogacy is immoral, appalling or bad in any way. I am sure that things can go wrong, but for me the good outweighs the potential bad.

To the rabid anti surrogacy posters, I have this to say: there is no argument you can make that will persuade me to change my views on the subject. My opinion isn’t relevant to you, I get it, but yours is unwarranted on an infertility board where people are seeking support in achieving the families THEY want. It’s not about you.

Can’t you all leave this board and get together and form some sort of private anti surrogacy one? You can email each other back and forth about the evils of surrogacy, and equate it to slavery until the cows come home.

But can’t you just get lost from this infertility support group? You’re insensitive and misguided to say the least.

Get lost!

Ha! You open your post boasting about how you "easily popped out kids" like a goddamn brood mare, and then have the breathtaking audacity to accuse people against surrogacy of being insensitive? Lady, take a good hard look at yourself. You lack all self-awareness and are a raging hypocrite. Why are YOU in this thread if you're ceaselessly filling your womb with babies? Don't you have some asses to wipe? Isn't it time for another insemination?

You are a vile, ugly, evil creature inside and out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

if what happens? I asked this upthread and you still havent answered?

What is the line where its justifiable to impregnate women like cattle and buy their baby?

This is incredibly insulting towards women who choose to become surrogates.

When cattle are sentient, can make their own decisions about their bodies, and are fairly compensated for their labor, it will be a fair analogy. Until then, you’re babbling.

Your dogged refusal to allow these women any agency at all is pretty gross and paternalistic.

What is this? Who decides? Have you read the articles posted about this being borderline trafficking?

Those pearls of journalistic wisdom you are referring to is just one article by a muck journalist for the India Times who has been discredited for making up propaganda and lies many times.

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/india-times-shweta-sengar-fake-news-propaganda/amp/

Don’t you think if you were hired to try to justify ending surrogacy in India, you’d make up lies about what was happening with surrogacy in Ukraine? I don’t believe a syllable of that article. It’s hardly a hard hitting article by a respected, trusted journalist.

India Times isn't good enough? You want more? It's not hard to google. Here's a BBC article:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42845602

"We have seen examples where Ukrainian agencies have refused to pay the surrogate if she doesn't adhere to strict requirements, if she miscarries," says Mr Everingham. "There are some awful examples where agencies really treated surrogates dreadfully in Ukraine if things haven't worked out to the benefit of parents."

"The industry, Ms Bogomolets says, is not sufficiently regulated and this lack of oversight can put both surrogate mothers and the paying parents at risk."

And another:

https://www.balcanicaucaso.org/eng/Areas/Ukraine/Surrogate-motherhood-and-exploitation-in-Ukraine-203929

"...many clinics (not registered or under a false name), foreign couples, intermediary agencies, or even improvised surrogate mothers do things under the table in order not to pay taxes, obviously without taking care of any consequences if something goes wrong."

' "Two-thirds of the surrogacy market in Ukraine is illegal", says Serhiy Antonov, jurist at IRTSA Ukraine (International Agency for Assistance in Auxiliary Reproduction Technologies), who stresses how easy it is to find surrogate mothers on social networks, instant messaging services (Viber, Telegram), job search platforms, or even on advertising spaces on the underground.'

Take a closer look at those articles. They’re basically the same thing as the first India Times one. Look at article number two. Like the India Times article it’s obvious Islamic propaganda from Al Jezeera. Sharia law prohibits surrogacy.

I’m not a Muslim and will never be, but I’ll bet the guy, Kevin Ponniah, who wrote the BBC article is.

You can’t keep showing me articles from journalists blinded by their Islamic faith and call that evidence of the immorality of surrogacy.

I’ll hardly defer to sharia law on any moral grounds let alone women’s rights issues.

What makes you think that? From a quick Google tour, Mr. Pooniah is born and raised in Australia. There are obviously Muslims in Australia, but what exactly is it about a guy named "Kevin" that makes you think he's promulgating Shari'a law?

PP, I said that because I was trying to get a rise out of the anti surrogacy troll. If you read the whole article, it’s very neutral. I have no idea what Kevin’s background is, but I knew what I said would bother the evil troll who keeps badgering infertile women with her unwanted opinions. And yes, she can take her religion and shove it!

I’m not the PP but this is shocking and awful. You are engaging in disgusting anti-Muslim racism, especially at a time like this globally in the world, just to “get a rise” out of multiple people? What is wrong with you? You do understand that this kind of behavior really weakens your stance, not strengthens it? Anyone who can casually use racism as some sort of joke gotcha is in no position to try to shut down a discussion about very serious issues of exploitation and ethics. You are awful to do this. Just awful.

And you don’t think Sunni Sharia law plays any role in outlawing surrogacy throughout the world? Because it certainly does.

I, for one, am very excited to hear about how "Sunni Sharia law" influenced the decision of a Hindu nationalist government and two predominantly Orthodox countries to outlaw surrogacy.

Or the European Union. The EU Parliament's joint committee on women’s right’s and civil liberties added surrogacy to a list of crimes that is targeted as part of the directive to prevent human trafficking. This was on October 5th of this year.

I would love our anti-Muslim racist to explain how “Sunni Sharia law” caused the European Parliament to classify surrogacy as a human trafficking crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the OP is still reading, I'd ask her to look a little deeper.

So, "Georgia is out."

Why is Georgia out? What made the Government of Georgia take that step? Rather than just listing countries that are "out," it might make sense to really ask yourself why, if surrogacy is ethical and normal, it is increasingly being curtailed.

PP would like you to believe that "Sunni Sharia law" is the reason, but that explanation doesn't make any sense when you look at the countries we are discussing.

So what does make sense? If the human rights abuses in Georgia were bad enough for the government to outlaw the practice, shouldn't that give anyone pause?

This is a really thoughtful, balanced and kind response. I think it will be lost between the two sides, but I appreciate you putting it out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

Uh huh. That’s why you’re so defensive and insecure in your choice.

I never had a surrogate and easily popped out kids. So, you can’t accuse me of feeling desperate or defensive about it. I support it wholeheartedly.

I think it’s a miracle of medical science and humanity that doctors can take a little egg, a tiny sperm and create an embryo in a Petri dish to then implant in a willing surrogate. It’s amazing that the surrogate’s body doesn’t reject the foreign dna and that a baby can grow.

I am delighted for the infertile women (and their husbands if they have them) who can now have the babies they dreamed about. I’m thrilled that gay men are no longer relegated to be uncles or doggie daddies and can have a family and be loved as a parent like everyone else.

I do not think paid surrogacy is immoral, appalling or bad in any way. I am sure that things can go wrong, but for me the good outweighs the potential bad.

To the rabid anti surrogacy posters, I have this to say: there is no argument you can make that will persuade me to change my views on the subject. My opinion isn’t relevant to you, I get it, but yours is unwarranted on an infertility board where people are seeking support in achieving the families THEY want. It’s not about you.

Can’t you all leave this board and get together and form some sort of private anti surrogacy one? You can email each other back and forth about the evils of surrogacy, and equate it to slavery until the cows come home.

But can’t you just get lost from this infertility support group? You’re insensitive and misguided to say the least.

Get lost!

Ha! You open your post boasting about how you "easily popped out kids" like a goddamn brood mare, and then have the breathtaking audacity to accuse people against surrogacy of being insensitive? Lady, take a good hard look at yourself. You lack all self-awareness and are a raging hypocrite. Why are YOU in this thread if you're ceaselessly filling your womb with babies? Don't you have some asses to wipe? Isn't it time for another insemination?

You are a vile, ugly, evil creature inside and out.

Says the person using humans as farm animals?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

Uh huh. That’s why you’re so defensive and insecure in your choice.

Why would I be defensive and insecure? My wonderful GC is a college graduate, happily married with 4 kids of her own in a mid-Western town and was also GC for another family. We have always maintained a close bond with her and her family. Continue spewing your bile if you choose to.

I don't know why you're defensive and insecure, but you are. It oozes out of every post you write.

That’s you projecting your own inadequacies.

[Anonymous]

Several of these countries have banned commercial surrogacy for foreigners, not for their own citizens.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sometimes in this life you just don't get what you want. I understand that for people experiencing infertility, the lack of a child is like a gaping chest wound, but that doesn't make it right to exploit others for your personal benefit. Having a child is not actually a human right.

You would be the first to change your tune if it happens to you.

No, not everyone who experiences infertility makes their problem other people’s problem as well.

Easy for you to talk when you’ve effortlessly popped out your kids.

Did you have a surrogate? Is that why youre so defensive? You feel guilty over paying a poor person to grow your child?

Yes, I had a surrogate. And no, I don’t feel guilty.

Uh huh. That’s why you’re so defensive and insecure in your choice.

Why would I be defensive and insecure? My wonderful GC is a college graduate, happily married with 4 kids of her own in a mid-Western town and was also GC for another family. We have always maintained a close bond with her and her family. Continue spewing your bile if you choose to.

I don't know why you're defensive and insecure, but you are. It oozes out of every post you write.

That’s you projecting your own inadequacies.

Nah. If you were secure, you’d be open to discussing the downsides of surrogacy. But you want to shut down any such discussion—surrogacy is only a positive! Keep telling yourself that, you deludinoid.