Mcps High School need to start later

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they could probably do the HS and ES switch if they were willing to pay for aftercare for all the kids whose siblings currently watch them after school. The sports is a solvable problem. There is also an issue with the little kids waiting on the dark for buses but I suppose they could put in more street lamps.

What about little kids sleep need? They need way more sleep than high schoolers? 10-12 hours a day depending on the age of elementary students while high schoolers are ok with 8 hours.

little kids don't have the shifted circadian rhythms adolescents have.

My ES schooler would wake up at 8 AM or so. The later start time was better. As a MS, they wake up much earlier. It hasn't been an issue, including with sports at 5 AM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It needs to be done. Teens simply need more sleep. LA DC NY and more..all on same page here.
https://apnews.com/article/school-start-times-pandemic-be81b0f5cb2b68fad3ce0a22dfd8ac1f

It's easy! They can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, they can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, what if they just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

But they could just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

If you want high schools to start later, here's what you need to do: figure out how MCPS can get 160,000 students to school and back, every school day, without putting over 100,000 of them on a school bus. School start times in MCPS are a transportation issue.

No, it's not a transportation issue. It's a scheduling issue. They can rearrange start times, with HS last instead of first.

They considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Nothing precludes them from changing their minds, for [reasons].

Anonymous wrote:Sure, but none of the factors on the ground have changed. It's still not efficient/possible to triple the bus fleet, and high schoolers still play sports, act in plays, and have afterschool jobs.

Reasons:

More and more research showing circadian rhythms shift later in adolescents. The can't effectively go to sleep as early as we'd like for an early school start. But keep denying science; it suits you.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36043490/

"It was shown that schoolchildren with [school start time] SST of 09:00 wake up at a later time on school days, sleep more, have less pronounced social jetlag and sleep loss, and higher academic performance than schoolchildren with SST of 08:00. As a result of logistic regression analysis, it was found that the frequency of the detection of food addiction is ~30% lower in schoolchildren with SST of 09:00 than in their peers with SST of 08:00."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15930216/

"The results of this study demonstrated that current high school start times contribute to sleep deprivation among adolescents. Consistent with a delay in circadian sleep phase, students performed better later in the day than in the early morning. "

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35659022/

"Early school start times negatively affect sleep in adolescents as well, with poorer outcomes in their overall health, wellbeing, and performance."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26545246/

"School start times were delayed 25-60 min, and correspondingly, total sleep time increased from 25 to 77 min per weeknight. Some studies revealed reduced daytime sleepiness, depression, caffeine use, tardiness to class, and trouble staying awake. Overall, the evidence supports recent non-experimental study findings and calls for policy that advocates for delayed school start time to improve sleep."

And if you can figure out how to make it work, transportation-wise, we'll all be very grateful to you. But without that, nothing's going to change.

That part's easy: flip ES and HS start times. It's the repercussions of that flip that have the opponents dug in. That part's hard.

They considered that option thoroughly and made the best possible choice for [reasons] when this was debated several years ago.

And [reasons] still don't respond to the clear science.

The clear science doesn't respond to the operational needs of a school district that transports over 100,000 students by school bus twice a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It needs to be done. Teens simply need more sleep. LA DC NY and more..all on same page here.
https://apnews.com/article/school-start-times-pandemic-be81b0f5cb2b68fad3ce0a22dfd8ac1f

It's easy! They can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, they can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, what if they just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

But they could just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

If you want high schools to start later, here's what you need to do: figure out how MCPS can get 160,000 students to school and back, every school day, without putting over 100,000 of them on a school bus. School start times in MCPS are a transportation issue.

No, it's not a transportation issue. It's a scheduling issue. They can rearrange start times, with HS last instead of first.

They considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Nothing precludes them from changing their minds, for [reasons].

Anonymous wrote:Sure, but none of the factors on the ground have changed. It's still not efficient/possible to triple the bus fleet, and high schoolers still play sports, act in plays, and have afterschool jobs.

Reasons:

More and more research showing circadian rhythms shift later in adolescents. The can't effectively go to sleep as early as we'd like for an early school start. But keep denying science; it suits you.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36043490/

"It was shown that schoolchildren with [school start time] SST of 09:00 wake up at a later time on school days, sleep more, have less pronounced social jetlag and sleep loss, and higher academic performance than schoolchildren with SST of 08:00. As a result of logistic regression analysis, it was found that the frequency of the detection of food addiction is ~30% lower in schoolchildren with SST of 09:00 than in their peers with SST of 08:00."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15930216/

"The results of this study demonstrated that current high school start times contribute to sleep deprivation among adolescents. Consistent with a delay in circadian sleep phase, students performed better later in the day than in the early morning. "

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35659022/

"Early school start times negatively affect sleep in adolescents as well, with poorer outcomes in their overall health, wellbeing, and performance."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26545246/

"School start times were delayed 25-60 min, and correspondingly, total sleep time increased from 25 to 77 min per weeknight. Some studies revealed reduced daytime sleepiness, depression, caffeine use, tardiness to class, and trouble staying awake. Overall, the evidence supports recent non-experimental study findings and calls for policy that advocates for delayed school start time to improve sleep."

And if you can figure out how to make it work, transportation-wise, we'll all be very grateful to you. But without that, nothing's going to change.

That part's easy: flip ES and HS start times. It's the repercussions of that flip that have the opponents dug in. That part's hard.

They considered that option thoroughly and made the best possible choice for [reasons] when this was debated several years ago.

And [reasons] still don't respond to the clear science.

The clear science doesn't respond to the operational needs of a school district that transports over 100,000 students by school bus twice a day.

Yes, astrology science is so clear. I checked my biorhythms earlier, and it said so too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It needs to be done. Teens simply need more sleep. LA DC NY and more..all on same page here.
https://apnews.com/article/school-start-times-pandemic-be81b0f5cb2b68fad3ce0a22dfd8ac1f

It's easy! They can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, they can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, what if they just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

But they could just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

If you want high schools to start later, here's what you need to do: figure out how MCPS can get 160,000 students to school and back, every school day, without putting over 100,000 of them on a school bus. School start times in MCPS are a transportation issue.

No, it's not a transportation issue. It's a scheduling issue. They can rearrange start times, with HS last instead of first.

They considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Nothing precludes them from changing their minds, for [reasons].

Anonymous wrote:Sure, but none of the factors on the ground have changed. It's still not efficient/possible to triple the bus fleet, and high schoolers still play sports, act in plays, and have afterschool jobs.

Reasons:

More and more research showing circadian rhythms shift later in adolescents. The can't effectively go to sleep as early as we'd like for an early school start. But keep denying science; it suits you.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36043490/

"It was shown that schoolchildren with [school start time] SST of 09:00 wake up at a later time on school days, sleep more, have less pronounced social jetlag and sleep loss, and higher academic performance than schoolchildren with SST of 08:00. As a result of logistic regression analysis, it was found that the frequency of the detection of food addiction is ~30% lower in schoolchildren with SST of 09:00 than in their peers with SST of 08:00."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15930216/

"The results of this study demonstrated that current high school start times contribute to sleep deprivation among adolescents. Consistent with a delay in circadian sleep phase, students performed better later in the day than in the early morning. "

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35659022/

"Early school start times negatively affect sleep in adolescents as well, with poorer outcomes in their overall health, wellbeing, and performance."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26545246/

"School start times were delayed 25-60 min, and correspondingly, total sleep time increased from 25 to 77 min per weeknight. Some studies revealed reduced daytime sleepiness, depression, caffeine use, tardiness to class, and trouble staying awake. Overall, the evidence supports recent non-experimental study findings and calls for policy that advocates for delayed school start time to improve sleep."

And if you can figure out how to make it work, transportation-wise, we'll all be very grateful to you. But without that, nothing's going to change.

That part's easy: flip ES and HS start times. It's the repercussions of that flip that have the opponents dug in. That part's hard.

They considered that option thoroughly and made the best possible choice for [reasons] when this was debated several years ago.

I don’t recall the analysis being that thorough, but the takeaway was that MCPS but a larger priority on after school jobs and sports than academic performance and health. That’s their choice I guess, but a bit curious for a district that is always fretting about test scores.

This! Academics seem low priority at MCPS. No final exams any more. Attendance means nothing. And who cares if period 1 is a wasted period in HS because the kids are half asleep or absent or trickle in late

And the solution is so simple! You just need to set your clock ahead by 2 hours and it will be fixed like magic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It needs to be done. Teens simply need more sleep. LA DC NY and more..all on same page here.
https://apnews.com/article/school-start-times-pandemic-be81b0f5cb2b68fad3ce0a22dfd8ac1f

It's easy! They can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, they can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, what if they just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

But they could just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

If you want high schools to start later, here's what you need to do: figure out how MCPS can get 160,000 students to school and back, every school day, without putting over 100,000 of them on a school bus. School start times in MCPS are a transportation issue.

No, it's not a transportation issue. It's a scheduling issue. They can rearrange start times, with HS last instead of first.

They considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Nothing precludes them from changing their minds, for [reasons].

Anonymous wrote:Sure, but none of the factors on the ground have changed. It's still not efficient/possible to triple the bus fleet, and high schoolers still play sports, act in plays, and have afterschool jobs.

Reasons:

More and more research showing circadian rhythms shift later in adolescents. The can't effectively go to sleep as early as we'd like for an early school start. But keep denying science; it suits you.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36043490/

"It was shown that schoolchildren with [school start time] SST of 09:00 wake up at a later time on school days, sleep more, have less pronounced social jetlag and sleep loss, and higher academic performance than schoolchildren with SST of 08:00. As a result of logistic regression analysis, it was found that the frequency of the detection of food addiction is ~30% lower in schoolchildren with SST of 09:00 than in their peers with SST of 08:00."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15930216/

"The results of this study demonstrated that current high school start times contribute to sleep deprivation among adolescents. Consistent with a delay in circadian sleep phase, students performed better later in the day than in the early morning. "

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35659022/

"Early school start times negatively affect sleep in adolescents as well, with poorer outcomes in their overall health, wellbeing, and performance."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26545246/

"School start times were delayed 25-60 min, and correspondingly, total sleep time increased from 25 to 77 min per weeknight. Some studies revealed reduced daytime sleepiness, depression, caffeine use, tardiness to class, and trouble staying awake. Overall, the evidence supports recent non-experimental study findings and calls for policy that advocates for delayed school start time to improve sleep."

And if you can figure out how to make it work, transportation-wise, we'll all be very grateful to you. But without that, nothing's going to change.

That part's easy: flip ES and HS start times. It's the repercussions of that flip that have the opponents dug in. That part's hard.

They considered that option thoroughly and made the best possible choice for [reasons] when this was debated several years ago.

I don’t recall the analysis being that thorough, but the takeaway was that MCPS but a larger priority on after school jobs and sports than academic performance and health. That’s their choice I guess, but a bit curious for a district that is always fretting about test scores.

This! Academics seem low priority at MCPS. No final exams any more. Attendance means nothing. And who cares if period 1 is a wasted period in HS because the kids are half asleep or absent or trickle in late

And the solution is so simple! You just need to set your clock ahead by 2 hours and it will be fixed like magic.

I set my calendar ahead so my kid gets summer school.

[Anonymous]

MCPS wasted 12 million dollars researching this and moved high school up by 20min

That was already a waste. I had a 7:01am first period bell and played varsity sports after school and worked in the mall from 5-9pm 2-3x a week and did my homework and got up at 5:45am. I survived.

This coddling of teens is destroying them. Most don’t even work part time anymore. Most have tutors. Most complain of being overworked.

Take a look at those phone screen times. Hours upon hours of wasted time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS wasted 12 million dollars researching this and moved high school up by 20min

That was already a waste. I had a 7:01am first period bell and played varsity sports after school and worked in the mall from 5-9pm 2-3x a week and did my homework and got up at 5:45am. I survived.

This coddling of teens is destroying them. Most don’t even work part time anymore. Most have tutors. Most complain of being overworked.

Take a look at those phone screen times. Hours upon hours of wasted time

Agree, kids need to learn to be responsible for themselves at some point.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, guys. Just move if you can, or go private. The bell times are awful, the calendar is chaos, the scores are in decline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS wasted 12 million dollars researching this and moved high school up by 20min

That was already a waste. I had a 7:01am first period bell and played varsity sports after school and worked in the mall from 5-9pm 2-3x a week and did my homework and got up at 5:45am. I survived.

This coddling of teens is destroying them. Most don’t even work part time anymore. Most have tutors. Most complain of being overworked.

Take a look at those phone screen times. Hours upon hours of wasted time

I think we should aim higher than "it didn't kill me".

All the schools started 20 minutes later, not just high schools, and as I recall, the study cost on the order of $500,000 - not $12 million.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS wasted 12 million dollars researching this and moved high school up by 20min

That was already a waste. I had a 7:01am first period bell and played varsity sports after school and worked in the mall from 5-9pm 2-3x a week and did my homework and got up at 5:45am. I survived.

This coddling of teens is destroying them. Most don’t even work part time anymore. Most have tutors. Most complain of being overworked.

Take a look at those phone screen times. Hours upon hours of wasted time

I think we should aim higher than "it didn't kill me".

All the schools started 20 minutes later, not just high schools, and as I recall, the study cost on the order of $500,000 - not $12 million.

Sounds like the problem was solved. Let's move along now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It needs to be done. Teens simply need more sleep. LA DC NY and more..all on same page here.
https://apnews.com/article/school-start-times-pandemic-be81b0f5cb2b68fad3ce0a22dfd8ac1f

It's easy! They can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, they can just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Or, what if they just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

But they could just ... no, they considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

If you want high schools to start later, here's what you need to do: figure out how MCPS can get 160,000 students to school and back, every school day, without putting over 100,000 of them on a school bus. School start times in MCPS are a transportation issue.

No, it's not a transportation issue. It's a scheduling issue. They can rearrange start times, with HS last instead of first.

They considered that, and decided against it, for [reasons].

Nothing precludes them from changing their minds, for [reasons].

Anonymous wrote:Sure, but none of the factors on the ground have changed. It's still not efficient/possible to triple the bus fleet, and high schoolers still play sports, act in plays, and have afterschool jobs.

Reasons:

More and more research showing circadian rhythms shift later in adolescents. The can't effectively go to sleep as early as we'd like for an early school start. But keep denying science; it suits you.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36043490/

"It was shown that schoolchildren with [school start time] SST of 09:00 wake up at a later time on school days, sleep more, have less pronounced social jetlag and sleep loss, and higher academic performance than schoolchildren with SST of 08:00. As a result of logistic regression analysis, it was found that the frequency of the detection of food addiction is ~30% lower in schoolchildren with SST of 09:00 than in their peers with SST of 08:00."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15930216/

"The results of this study demonstrated that current high school start times contribute to sleep deprivation among adolescents. Consistent with a delay in circadian sleep phase, students performed better later in the day than in the early morning. "

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35659022/

"Early school start times negatively affect sleep in adolescents as well, with poorer outcomes in their overall health, wellbeing, and performance."

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26545246/

"School start times were delayed 25-60 min, and correspondingly, total sleep time increased from 25 to 77 min per weeknight. Some studies revealed reduced daytime sleepiness, depression, caffeine use, tardiness to class, and trouble staying awake. Overall, the evidence supports recent non-experimental study findings and calls for policy that advocates for delayed school start time to improve sleep."

And if you can figure out how to make it work, transportation-wise, we'll all be very grateful to you. But without that, nothing's going to change.

That part's easy: flip ES and HS start times. It's the repercussions of that flip that have the opponents dug in. That part's hard.

They considered that option thoroughly and made the best possible choice for [reasons] when this was debated several years ago.

And [reasons] still don't respond to the clear science.

The clear science doesn't respond to the operational needs of a school district that transports over 100,000 students by school bus twice a day.

Yes, astrology science is so clear. I checked my biorhythms earlier, and it said so too.

[Anonymous]

I work at an MCPS high school. All the kids with abbreviated schedules have those due to child-minding duties of younger siblings or after-school jobs. There are thousands of even 9th graders who must get home to mind their younger siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS wasted 12 million dollars researching this and moved high school up by 20min

That was already a waste. I had a 7:01am first period bell and played varsity sports after school and worked in the mall from 5-9pm 2-3x a week and did my homework and got up at 5:45am. I survived.

This coddling of teens is destroying them. Most don’t even work part time anymore. Most have tutors. Most complain of being overworked.

Take a look at those phone screen times. Hours upon hours of wasted time

It is your job as a parent to remove those phones from your children as soon as they are home from school. Homework done, chores done, dinner cleaned up. By then it's 9pm-10 and lights out!

When did parents stop parenting??

[Anonymous]

I grew up with a 10pm lights out rule. The house was silent as TVs went off, homework books closed, clothes were organized for next morning. It was a routine, not just a rule. It was no big deal. House came alive around 6am, no issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS wasted 12 million dollars researching this and moved high school up by 20min

That was already a waste. I had a 7:01am first period bell and played varsity sports after school and worked in the mall from 5-9pm 2-3x a week and did my homework and got up at 5:45am. I survived.

This coddling of teens is destroying them. Most don’t even work part time anymore. Most have tutors. Most complain of being overworked.

Take a look at those phone screen times. Hours upon hours of wasted time

I think we should aim higher than "it didn't kill me".

All the schools started 20 minutes later, not just high schools, and as I recall, the study cost on the order of $500,000 - not $12 million.

$500K is still a lot of money.