Mcps High School need to start later

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Ok, but everyone is saying just send the HS kids to bed earlier, so why wouldn't you be able do that with your younger kids? My ES kids are in bed by 8 and typically wake up around 6:30am. Even if they are up later than typical it's still rare for them to sleep past 7.

That is just your kids. My 1st grader goes to bed at 8pm and sleeps until 7:30am and sometimes 8:00am.

Same with mine. They can easily sleep 12 hours and need the later start time.

And another thing people forget here is high schoolers DO work after school. Maybe not the W kids, but many work to help contribute to their family's income.

Thats a lot of sleep. Maybe they should go to the doctor and make sure they are ok. Mine never slept that much.

Most kids of ALL ages are sleep deprived and you are telling a mom to take her child to the doctor because they sleep the required amount. Educate yourself.


infants (0–3 months): 14–17 hours
infants (4–12 months: 12–16 hours
toddlers (1–2 years): 11–14 hours
preschool (3–5 years): 10–13 hours
school-age (6–12 years): 10–12 hours
teens (13–17 years): 8–10 hours

[Anonymous]

My kids are really into soccer and a later school time would affect their ability to play. It's not like swimming where they could shift practice to the early AM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

But we aren't in Canada. We are in one the most highly populated counties in the country. There are many locations with no sidewalks, crosswalks, or crossing guards - and there are many drivers that go way too fast. To think kids that have grown up going to school only in daylight hours can now safely walk in the night time is a little obtuse, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

Of course kids CAN walk or bike to school in the dark, but I hope you'll agree that it's less safe. There are already too many drivers, in broad daylight, hitting kids who are walking or biking to or from school or near schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

But we aren't in Canada. We are in one the most highly populated counties in the country. There are many locations with no sidewalks, crosswalks, or crossing guards - and there are many drivers that go way too fast. To think kids that have grown up going to school only in daylight hours can now safely walk in the night time is a little obtuse, no?

Kind of? There are 50 counties in the US with populations of at least one million, and Montgomery County is #45. According to Wikipedia, for what that's worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Ok, but everyone is saying just send the HS kids to bed earlier, so why wouldn't you be able do that with your younger kids? My ES kids are in bed by 8 and typically wake up around 6:30am. Even if they are up later than typical it's still rare for them to sleep past 7.

That is just your kids. My 1st grader goes to bed at 8pm and sleeps until 7:30am and sometimes 8:00am.

Same with mine. They can easily sleep 12 hours and need the later start time.

And another thing people forget here is high schoolers DO work after school. Maybe not the W kids, but many work to help contribute to their family's income.

Thats a lot of sleep. Maybe they should go to the doctor and make sure they are ok. Mine never slept that much.

Most kids of ALL ages are sleep deprived and you are telling a mom to take her child to the doctor because they sleep the required amount. Educate yourself.


infants (0–3 months): 14–17 hours
infants (4–12 months: 12–16 hours
toddlers (1–2 years): 11–14 hours
preschool (3–5 years): 10–13 hours
school-age (6–12 years): 10–12 hours
teens (13–17 years): 8–10 hours

Thats way to much sleep for older kids. No way my school aged kid has ever slept more than 8 hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

Of course kids CAN walk or bike to school in the dark, but I hope you'll agree that it's less safe. There are already too many drivers, in broad daylight, hitting kids who are walking or biking to or from school or near schools.

Most parents don't start work that early for HS and can drive them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are really into soccer and a later school time would affect their ability to play. It's not like swimming where they could shift practice to the early AM.

Swimming is both AM and PM. Yes, you could do soccer very early like swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

But we aren't in Canada. We are in one the most highly populated counties in the country. There are many locations with no sidewalks, crosswalks, or crossing guards - and there are many drivers that go way too fast. To think kids that have grown up going to school only in daylight hours can now safely walk in the night time is a little obtuse, no?

We should have all of these things even with the current schedule and it's shameful that we don't. The lives of HS students should be valued too. I also think that kids are more adaptable than we give them credit for, it's adults who struggle with change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

Of course kids CAN walk or bike to school in the dark, but I hope you'll agree that it's less safe. There are already too many drivers, in broad daylight, hitting kids who are walking or biking to or from school or near schools.

Most parents don't start work that early for HS and can drive them.

I simply do not understand people who believe that this a reasonable response.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Ok, but everyone is saying just send the HS kids to bed earlier, so why wouldn't you be able do that with your younger kids? My ES kids are in bed by 8 and typically wake up around 6:30am. Even if they are up later than typical it's still rare for them to sleep past 7.

That is just your kids. My 1st grader goes to bed at 8pm and sleeps until 7:30am and sometimes 8:00am.

Same with mine. They can easily sleep 12 hours and need the later start time.

And another thing people forget here is high schoolers DO work after school. Maybe not the W kids, but many work to help contribute to their family's income.

Thats a lot of sleep. Maybe they should go to the doctor and make sure they are ok. Mine never slept that much.

Most kids of ALL ages are sleep deprived and you are telling a mom to take her child to the doctor because they sleep the required amount. Educate yourself.


infants (0–3 months): 14–17 hours
infants (4–12 months: 12–16 hours
toddlers (1–2 years): 11–14 hours
preschool (3–5 years): 10–13 hours
school-age (6–12 years): 10–12 hours
teens (13–17 years): 8–10 hours

For a sourced list for school aged kids, the AAP recommends:

Age 6-12 years: 9-12 hours
Age 13-18 years: 8-10 hours

https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/6630/AAP-endorses-new-recommendations-on-sleep-times

[Anonymous]

I mean, you guys really don't need to worry. Swapping HS and ES start times has been considered and dropped. It doesn't matter what the "science" says about healthy sleep patterns. I think the only way MCPS ever changes is if literally every other local district makes the change, not just Loudon and AA. Then they may *feel* pressured to do so. But it's really, really hard to change precedent, especially somewhere like MoCo with high anxiety levels.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

But we aren't in Canada. We are in one the most highly populated counties in the country. There are many locations with no sidewalks, crosswalks, or crossing guards - and there are many drivers that go way too fast. To think kids that have grown up going to school only in daylight hours can now safely walk in the night time is a little obtuse, no?

Yes, in Canada kids have Canadian Rhythms which work differently! School should start later there. It's science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid in ES and MS also needs sleep. These people want to throw younger kids under the bus because it's more convenient for them makes no sense. The county already debated this and the matter is settled.

Seriously. It's draining and exhausting.

Also, they act like American kids are precious snowflakes who can't be challenged to do a simple thing like go to bed on time and wake up on time.

Meanwhile, their counterparts in places like Japan, France and the UK go to high school from 8:30 am to as LATE as 4, 5 or 6 pm. Meanwhile, our kids go to school from 7:45 am to 2:30 pm and they're acting like they're being waterboarded. Grow up.

And in Germany, they go to high school from 8 am to 12:30 pm or 1 pm. So what?

It's one thing to say: early school start times are a problem, but there's currently no way for MCPS to solve the problem without creating even more problems.

It's a whole different thing to say: early school start times are not a problem. There is a mountain of evidence that they are a problem.

My point in posting the other global start and end times is that OTHER COUNTRIES also demand their students wake up "early" and in some cases, those kids have even LONGER school days than we do. And guess what? They're thriving and making it work with that system.

AGAIN, look around globally. Most school times start around 8 am. MCPS currently starts at 7:45 am. We are within the RANGE of normal. So what the hell are we fighting about? 15 freaking minutes?

If we had a 6 or 7 am start time (which btw, we used to have as my first period used to be at 7:15 am in the 90s), ok. I could concede your point. But most high schools globally start around 8 am. We are not some anomaly.

My high school kids gets on the school bus at 7:00 am. Which means that one of them gets up at 6:50, and the other one gets up at 5:30. Either way, it's before 7:45 am.

You can drive them.

Not everyone is able to drive. Not everyone has a car. Not everyone is available to drive. And the last thing we need is more cars on the road. So no, "You can drive them" is not a solution.

Sounds like you can understand why many people also need to have older siblings watch the younger ones.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and yes, I do understand that. There are two issues here:

1. There's plenty of scientific evidence that teenagers, specifically, don't do well in the early mornings.
2. There is no feasible way for MCPS to adjust school start times to teenager biology as long as MCPS to transport over 100,000 students per day by school bus.

1, sure. 2, though, just requires flipping HS and ES start times.

"just"

yeah, "just". It's not a transportation issue. Lots of other stuff, but not transportation.

Yes it is.

More kids in ES

ES kids take the buses for field trips

Younger kids need more sleep. No 5yr old should be forced to get up at 5:30-6am. 5yr old need 11-12hrs of sleep. Is their bedtime now 6pm?

Younger kids can’t walk/bike to school in the dark during the winter

Younger kids rely on older siblings or teen babysitters for after school care.

School sports and late buses would be so much later and cost the district more money to pay bus drivers to work an extra 1-2 hours.

School coaches won’t want the job as they would be getting home so much later.

This whole, kids can't do anything in the dark is a bit funny to me, as I grew up in a major Canadian city where that was just part of life in the winter....

But we aren't in Canada. We are in one the most highly populated counties in the country. There are many locations with no sidewalks, crosswalks, or crossing guards - and there are many drivers that go way too fast. To think kids that have grown up going to school only in daylight hours can now safely walk in the night time is a little obtuse, no?

We should have all of these things even with the current schedule and it's shameful that we don't. The lives of HS students should be valued too. I also think that kids are more adaptable than we give them credit for, it's adults who struggle with change.

Half the kids in high school can drive themselves to school and the rest can walk or bike or take the bus.

Zero ES kids, spanning 6 grades, can drive themselves and half probably can not even walk or bike safely in daylight hours.

So your comment about caring about 15-18yr old safety over 5-10yrs old safety is ridiculous