So is 40s when looks go off a cliff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think that having a facelift is "a good example of someone who has allowed her face to age". It's a major, expensive and invasive surgery.

I am not criticizing it. I dream of having a facelift myself. But come on, it's not natural aging.

Still looks more natural than fillers and botox.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think that having a facelift is "a good example of someone who has allowed her face to age". It's a major, expensive and invasive surgery.

I am not criticizing it. I dream of having a facelift myself. But come on, it's not natural aging.

Still looks more natural than fillers and botox.

+1 I feel like her facelift (if she had one) can fall into the category of looking her best, not trying to look younger than she is. You can also wear makeup and nice clothes without chasing youth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, looks really start to go downhill after 45. I'm 47 and have watched about 50 friends age. At 40-43 or so, many looked indistinguishable from 35. Then aging hit and it's been striking.

Yup. Every year between 46 and 50 is brutal.

Agree. That's when perimenopause starts and it's all downhill looks-wise. Everything everywhere starts to sag. You start to feel more achy, you get more brain fog, really it's awful. I am in great shape and eat well, but still, I aged tremendously between 45 and 50. Before then, I thought I looked young for my age. Ladies, enjoy your early 40s!

+1. 45-46 was when I really started to feel like I was aging.

[Anonymous]

A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think that having a facelift is "a good example of someone who has allowed her face to age". It's a major, expensive and invasive surgery.

I am not criticizing it. I dream of having a facelift myself. But come on, it's not natural aging.

Still looks more natural than fillers and botox.

+1 I feel like her facelift (if she had one) can fall into the category of looking her best, not trying to look younger than she is. You can also wear makeup and nice clothes without chasing youth.

Ok, but by definition, having surgery is not natural aging. When we pretend that it is, we are making unreasonable standards for everyday folks too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

+1, just shows how internalized this all is, if the goal is *looks like natural aging*. Without the facelift, her career would have ended 20 years ago.

[Anonymous]

I looked consistently better starting at 38 (learned a lot more how to take care of my skin, how to dress) and it felt as if I got better and better until about 55/56. The Pandemic and caring for elderly parents has taken a massive toll. I look bad now. Trying to put a plan in place to look better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think that having a facelift is "a good example of someone who has allowed her face to age". It's a major, expensive and invasive surgery.

I am not criticizing it. I dream of having a facelift myself. But come on, it's not natural aging.

Still looks more natural than fillers and botox.

+1 I feel like her facelift (if she had one) can fall into the category of looking her best, not trying to look younger than she is. You can also wear makeup and nice clothes without chasing youth.

Ok, but by definition, having surgery is not natural aging. When we pretend that it is, we are making unreasonable standards for everyday folks too.

Sure - yes.

[Anonymous]

I just returned from 3 weeks in Italy and was struck by the appearance of older Italian/European women. They did not seem to be fighting the aging process the way we do here. Many 55 and older women looked very much their age but seemed to take time to dress well and many looked very fit. My casual observation was that they were not dyeing their hair/botoxing/using fillers as much as we do here. There was something very refreshing about seeing this. Maybe embracing this stage of their lives?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

+1, just shows how internalized this all is, if the goal is *looks like natural aging*. Without the facelift, her career would have ended 20 years ago.

I'm the PP who said she's still allowed her face to age. I want to be more clear about this.

Helen Mirren is a film actress. I know we like to compare ourselves to and identify with celebrities like this, but they are not actually held to the same beauty standards. Their job is to appear on camera. And the standards are brutal on men too, even though they are not held to the same standards of youth as women are. Many, many male actors get face lifts after 50. Jaw lines are very important on screen. So to me, Helen Mirren getting a face lift to give her jaw a sharper line and get rid of jowels is like a major league pitcher getting a second Tommy John surgery -- it's a reasonable investment in her career. That doesn't mean you or I should go get a face lift (or Tommy Johns!). As I mentioned, many Hollywood actresses have had nose jobs as well. Maybe even Helen Mirren! it's just that they do this early in their career generally and it's not associated with aging. But these are common things done to improve appearance in order to benefit your career. It's a visual medium.

But Mirren absolutely has allowed her face to age. She has allowed her skin to wrinkle and her lips to think. There is no evidence of Botox or fillers that I can see. And when you see her smiling in a photograph and her face crinkles up? It's beautiful. And it would still be beautiful with jowels. The point is that she proves that wrinkles and sagging are not, in and of themselves, ugly. They are just signs of aging. Helen Mirren looks old but she also looks beautiful. That's very inspiring to me. I'm never going to be as beautiful as Helen Mirren (again, famous film actress versus regular person) but that doesn't mean I can's appreciate that she makes aging look pretty good.

[Anonymous]

People get snippy when you correct spelling online but this thread is a perfect example of what happens when you don't. A poster even showed up late in the thread and used the correct spelling as a gentle correction but wasn't able to sway their interlocutor back to literacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People get snippy when you correct spelling online but this thread is a perfect example of what happens when you don't. A poster even showed up late in the thread and used the correct spelling as a gentle correction but wasn't able to sway their interlocutor back to literacy.

Wow the only think worse than correcting someone's typo in an anonymous thread is to provide meta commentary on typos without even saying what they are. Get a better hobby, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People get snippy when you correct spelling online but this thread is a perfect example of what happens when you don't. A poster even showed up late in the thread and used the correct spelling as a gentle correction but wasn't able to sway their interlocutor back to literacy.

Jowels Jowels Jowels.

(By the way, who cares). We all clearly know what jowls are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People get snippy when you correct spelling online but this thread is a perfect example of what happens when you don't. A poster even showed up late in the thread and used the correct spelling as a gentle correction but wasn't able to sway their interlocutor back to literacy.

Wow the only think worse than correcting someone's typo in an anonymous thread is to provide meta commentary on typos without even saying what they are. Get a better hobby, OP.

You rock, for not proofing! Totally agree, anyone looking for quality work in an anonymous post is deranged. Get the gist and move on, already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

+1, just shows how internalized this all is, if the goal is *looks like natural aging*. Without the facelift, her career would have ended 20 years ago.

I'm the PP who said she's still allowed her face to age. I want to be more clear about this.

Helen Mirren is a film actress. I know we like to compare ourselves to and identify with celebrities like this, but they are not actually held to the same beauty standards. Their job is to appear on camera. And the standards are brutal on men too, even though they are not held to the same standards of youth as women are. Many, many male actors get face lifts after 50. Jaw lines are very important on screen. So to me, Helen Mirren getting a face lift to give her jaw a sharper line and get rid of jowels is like a major league pitcher getting a second Tommy John surgery -- it's a reasonable investment in her career. That doesn't mean you or I should go get a face lift (or Tommy Johns!). As I mentioned, many Hollywood actresses have had nose jobs as well. Maybe even Helen Mirren! it's just that they do this early in their career generally and it's not associated with aging. But these are common things done to improve appearance in order to benefit your career. It's a visual medium.

But Mirren absolutely has allowed her face to age. She has allowed her skin to wrinkle and her lips to think. There is no evidence of Botox or fillers that I can see. And when you see her smiling in a photograph and her face crinkles up? It's beautiful. And it would still be beautiful with jowels. The point is that she proves that wrinkles and sagging are not, in and of themselves, ugly. They are just signs of aging. Helen Mirren looks old but she also looks beautiful. That's very inspiring to me. I'm never going to be as beautiful as Helen Mirren (again, famous film actress versus regular person) but that doesn't mean I can's appreciate that she makes aging look pretty good.

Nobody blames her for doing whatever is required in her industry. I only blame people for suggesting her as a positive role model. If it has to be an actress, I'd nominate Maya Rudolf for portraying natural aging. She looks wealthy fifty to me, maybe it's work, not gonna check.