So is 40s when looks go off a cliff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

+1, just shows how internalized this all is, if the goal is *looks like natural aging*. Without the facelift, her career would have ended 20 years ago.

I'm the PP who said she's still allowed her face to age. I want to be more clear about this.

Helen Mirren is a film actress. I know we like to compare ourselves to and identify with celebrities like this, but they are not actually held to the same beauty standards. Their job is to appear on camera. And the standards are brutal on men too, even though they are not held to the same standards of youth as women are. Many, many male actors get face lifts after 50. Jaw lines are very important on screen. So to me, Helen Mirren getting a face lift to give her jaw a sharper line and get rid of jowels is like a major league pitcher getting a second Tommy John surgery -- it's a reasonable investment in her career. That doesn't mean you or I should go get a face lift (or Tommy Johns!). As I mentioned, many Hollywood actresses have had nose jobs as well. Maybe even Helen Mirren! it's just that they do this early in their career generally and it's not associated with aging. But these are common things done to improve appearance in order to benefit your career. It's a visual medium.

But Mirren absolutely has allowed her face to age. She has allowed her skin to wrinkle and her lips to think. There is no evidence of Botox or fillers that I can see. And when you see her smiling in a photograph and her face crinkles up? It's beautiful. And it would still be beautiful with jowels. The point is that she proves that wrinkles and sagging are not, in and of themselves, ugly. They are just signs of aging. Helen Mirren looks old but she also looks beautiful. That's very inspiring to me. I'm never going to be as beautiful as Helen Mirren (again, famous film actress versus regular person) but that doesn't mean I can's appreciate that she makes aging look pretty good.

I'm sorry but truly - you are all over the place. I'm not being snarky but I think this is kind of indicative of this whole thread - it's a little chaotic tbh.

How is a facelift (more invasive, more risk/recovery, etc.) for purely cosmetic reasons in any scenario a "embracing aging" but botox and fillers are not and somehow more...what vain? Proof that you "care" about aging and you're insecure in some way? And I ask this really to try and understand the thought process.

Notwithstanding the fact that she's an actress, why can't I...as a normal "everyday" woman if I have financial means do the same thing and not be judged more harshly and it not be framed as basically me trying to "embrace my aging" but doing it ways whether facelift, botox, fillers, etc. that are done well, minimally to address the things that they can and in a way that makes me feel good?

I ask these things because I think we really judge each other harshly and I find a lot of women on this board specifically that REALLY try to convince others that it's wrong to do cosmetic procedures and that it all looks fake, it all looks obvious, it points to self-esteem issues / patriarchal structures - whatever - but then when it comes to someone admired like Helen Mirren it's - ok because she's in entertainment and she's lauded as a "graceful ager"? I mean - you can't have it both ways and to be really fair - it's simply not true.

I've met many women in this area that get really bad procedures - but I've met many that I might ask in my head if they've had "work" but I can't tell and I've met women that I don't ask at all but probably had a procedure or two. It really comes down to your provider. Extremes go either way. But outside of that - women really shouldn't be so harsh to think that all women who choose to go these routes have some inherent hate of themselves or aging. I like me just fine - I've had a few rounds of Botox over the last 5 years because my 11s make me look like Oscar the Grouch. It really made me look quite angry all the time. I got Botox - they went away. It's not smooth like an ass on my face but it works and I'm glad I got it. It might have shave a couple of years? maybe but I do look better. Do I look good? I feel like I do - it makes me happy. I don't see why other women just don't get that part.

TLR - Ya'll judgey but I love the threads lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

+1, just shows how internalized this all is, if the goal is *looks like natural aging*. Without the facelift, her career would have ended 20 years ago.

I'm the PP who said she's still allowed her face to age. I want to be more clear about this.

Helen Mirren is a film actress. I know we like to compare ourselves to and identify with celebrities like this, but they are not actually held to the same beauty standards. Their job is to appear on camera. And the standards are brutal on men too, even though they are not held to the same standards of youth as women are. Many, many male actors get face lifts after 50. Jaw lines are very important on screen. So to me, Helen Mirren getting a face lift to give her jaw a sharper line and get rid of jowels is like a major league pitcher getting a second Tommy John surgery -- it's a reasonable investment in her career. That doesn't mean you or I should go get a face lift (or Tommy Johns!). As I mentioned, many Hollywood actresses have had nose jobs as well. Maybe even Helen Mirren! it's just that they do this early in their career generally and it's not associated with aging. But these are common things done to improve appearance in order to benefit your career. It's a visual medium.

But Mirren absolutely has allowed her face to age. She has allowed her skin to wrinkle and her lips to think. There is no evidence of Botox or fillers that I can see. And when you see her smiling in a photograph and her face crinkles up? It's beautiful. And it would still be beautiful with jowels. The point is that she proves that wrinkles and sagging are not, in and of themselves, ugly. They are just signs of aging. Helen Mirren looks old but she also looks beautiful. That's very inspiring to me. I'm never going to be as beautiful as Helen Mirren (again, famous film actress versus regular person) but that doesn't mean I can's appreciate that she makes aging look pretty good.

Nobody blames her for doing whatever is required in her industry. I only blame people for suggesting her as a positive role model. If it has to be an actress, I'd nominate Maya Rudolf for portraying natural aging. She looks wealthy fifty to me, maybe it's work, not gonna check.

Helen Mirren is 77! Maya Rudolph just turned 50. If Helen Mirren's face lift is out of bounds, then Maya Rudolph is also cheating by actually being much younger

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

+1, just shows how internalized this all is, if the goal is *looks like natural aging*. Without the facelift, her career would have ended 20 years ago.

I'm the PP who said she's still allowed her face to age. I want to be more clear about this.

Helen Mirren is a film actress. I know we like to compare ourselves to and identify with celebrities like this, but they are not actually held to the same beauty standards. Their job is to appear on camera. And the standards are brutal on men too, even though they are not held to the same standards of youth as women are. Many, many male actors get face lifts after 50. Jaw lines are very important on screen. So to me, Helen Mirren getting a face lift to give her jaw a sharper line and get rid of jowels is like a major league pitcher getting a second Tommy John surgery -- it's a reasonable investment in her career. That doesn't mean you or I should go get a face lift (or Tommy Johns!). As I mentioned, many Hollywood actresses have had nose jobs as well. Maybe even Helen Mirren! it's just that they do this early in their career generally and it's not associated with aging. But these are common things done to improve appearance in order to benefit your career. It's a visual medium.

But Mirren absolutely has allowed her face to age. She has allowed her skin to wrinkle and her lips to think. There is no evidence of Botox or fillers that I can see. And when you see her smiling in a photograph and her face crinkles up? It's beautiful. And it would still be beautiful with jowels. The point is that she proves that wrinkles and sagging are not, in and of themselves, ugly. They are just signs of aging. Helen Mirren looks old but she also looks beautiful. That's very inspiring to me. I'm never going to be as beautiful as Helen Mirren (again, famous film actress versus regular person) but that doesn't mean I can's appreciate that she makes aging look pretty good.

I'm sorry but truly - you are all over the place. I'm not being snarky but I think this is kind of indicative of this whole thread - it's a little chaotic tbh.

How is a facelift (more invasive, more risk/recovery, etc.) for purely cosmetic reasons in any scenario a "embracing aging" but botox and fillers are not and somehow more...what vain? Proof that you "care" about aging and you're insecure in some way? And I ask this really to try and understand the thought process.

Notwithstanding the fact that she's an actress, why can't I...as a normal "everyday" woman if I have financial means do the same thing and not be judged more harshly and it not be framed as basically me trying to "embrace my aging" but doing it ways whether facelift, botox, fillers, etc. that are done well, minimally to address the things that they can and in a way that makes me feel good?

I ask these things because I think we really judge each other harshly and I find a lot of women on this board specifically that REALLY try to convince others that it's wrong to do cosmetic procedures and that it all looks fake, it all looks obvious, it points to self-esteem issues / patriarchal structures - whatever - but then when it comes to someone admired like Helen Mirren it's - ok because she's in entertainment and she's lauded as a "graceful ager"? I mean - you can't have it both ways and to be really fair - it's simply not true.

I've met many women in this area that get really bad procedures - but I've met many that I might ask in my head if they've had "work" but I can't tell and I've met women that I don't ask at all but probably had a procedure or two. It really comes down to your provider. Extremes go either way. But outside of that - women really shouldn't be so harsh to think that all women who choose to go these routes have some inherent hate of themselves or aging. I like me just fine - I've had a few rounds of Botox over the last 5 years because my 11s make me look like Oscar the Grouch. It really made me look quite angry all the time. I got Botox - they went away. It's not smooth like an ass on my face but it works and I'm glad I got it. It might have shave a couple of years? maybe but I do look better. Do I look good? I feel like I do - it makes me happy. I don't see why other women just don't get that part.

TLR - Ya'll judgey but I love the threads lol

Literally the only point is that Helen Mirren allows her face to have wrinkles and doesn't Botox or do fillers to eliminate them like virtually everyone else, male or female, in Hollywood. The bar for "natural aging" among actors is different. I mean look at Nicole Kidman who is 20 years younger then Mirren and has clearly had Botox, fillers, AND likely had a lower face lift and a neck lift. Mirren has absolutely embraced aging in a way a lot of actors do not, whether she still has work done or not. She's not afraid to look her age.

[Anonymous]

All else being equal, I think a woman who laughs a lot, is having good sex, and isn't terribly stressed out is going to look a lot better than any other woman her age.
There's only so much we can do. There's a lot to be said for trying not to worry so much about it and just enjoying your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

+1, just shows how internalized this all is, if the goal is *looks like natural aging*. Without the facelift, her career would have ended 20 years ago.

I'm the PP who said she's still allowed her face to age. I want to be more clear about this.

Helen Mirren is a film actress. I know we like to compare ourselves to and identify with celebrities like this, but they are not actually held to the same beauty standards. Their job is to appear on camera. And the standards are brutal on men too, even though they are not held to the same standards of youth as women are. Many, many male actors get face lifts after 50. Jaw lines are very important on screen. So to me, Helen Mirren getting a face lift to give her jaw a sharper line and get rid of jowels is like a major league pitcher getting a second Tommy John surgery -- it's a reasonable investment in her career. That doesn't mean you or I should go get a face lift (or Tommy Johns!). As I mentioned, many Hollywood actresses have had nose jobs as well. Maybe even Helen Mirren! it's just that they do this early in their career generally and it's not associated with aging. But these are common things done to improve appearance in order to benefit your career. It's a visual medium.

But Mirren absolutely has allowed her face to age. She has allowed her skin to wrinkle and her lips to think. There is no evidence of Botox or fillers that I can see. And when you see her smiling in a photograph and her face crinkles up? It's beautiful. And it would still be beautiful with jowels. The point is that she proves that wrinkles and sagging are not, in and of themselves, ugly. They are just signs of aging. Helen Mirren looks old but she also looks beautiful. That's very inspiring to me. I'm never going to be as beautiful as Helen Mirren (again, famous film actress versus regular person) but that doesn't mean I can's appreciate that she makes aging look pretty good.

I'm sorry but truly - you are all over the place. I'm not being snarky but I think this is kind of indicative of this whole thread - it's a little chaotic tbh.

How is a facelift (more invasive, more risk/recovery, etc.) for purely cosmetic reasons in any scenario a "embracing aging" but botox and fillers are not and somehow more...what vain? Proof that you "care" about aging and you're insecure in some way? And I ask this really to try and understand the thought process.

Notwithstanding the fact that she's an actress, why can't I...as a normal "everyday" woman if I have financial means do the same thing and not be judged more harshly and it not be framed as basically me trying to "embrace my aging" but doing it ways whether facelift, botox, fillers, etc. that are done well, minimally to address the things that they can and in a way that makes me feel good?

I ask these things because I think we really judge each other harshly and I find a lot of women on this board specifically that REALLY try to convince others that it's wrong to do cosmetic procedures and that it all looks fake, it all looks obvious, it points to self-esteem issues / patriarchal structures - whatever - but then when it comes to someone admired like Helen Mirren it's - ok because she's in entertainment and she's lauded as a "graceful ager"? I mean - you can't have it both ways and to be really fair - it's simply not true.

I've met many women in this area that get really bad procedures - but I've met many that I might ask in my head if they've had "work" but I can't tell and I've met women that I don't ask at all but probably had a procedure or two. It really comes down to your provider. Extremes go either way. But outside of that - women really shouldn't be so harsh to think that all women who choose to go these routes have some inherent hate of themselves or aging. I like me just fine - I've had a few rounds of Botox over the last 5 years because my 11s make me look like Oscar the Grouch. It really made me look quite angry all the time. I got Botox - they went away. It's not smooth like an ass on my face but it works and I'm glad I got it. It might have shave a couple of years? maybe but I do look better. Do I look good? I feel like I do - it makes me happy. I don't see why other women just don't get that part.

TLR - Ya'll judgey but I love the threads lol

Literally the only point is that Helen Mirren allows her face to have wrinkles and doesn't Botox or do fillers to eliminate them like virtually everyone else, male or female, in Hollywood. The bar for "natural aging" among actors is different. I mean look at Nicole Kidman who is 20 years younger then Mirren and has clearly had Botox, fillers, AND likely had a lower face lift and a neck lift. Mirren has absolutely embraced aging in a way a lot of actors do not, whether she still has work done or not. She's not afraid to look her age.

Well the real gag is - she's had all three - Botox, fillers, and a facelift. Your point is moot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All else being equal, I think a woman who laughs a lot, is having good sex, and isn't terribly stressed out is going to look a lot better than any other woman her age.
There's only so much we can do. There's a lot to be said for trying not to worry so much about it and just enjoying your life.

100%

[Anonymous]

Was it Mirren or another aging actress who said the best advice for aging in the face was to limit fillers and know when they can't help, then get 2 face-lifts? One in you're early 50s, one in your 70s, letting yourself "age around" the work. That does seem to be the way to look pretty "natural."

[Anonymous]

Are you a runner because apparently their looks go to hell real quick

[Anonymous]

I live in LA and every single actress - yes every one - has had something done. I started Botox at 34 and it is as common as teeth cleanings here. People don’t understand that when most women do aging interventions, women who don’t actually look “unnaturally” old. It is similar to the standard model BMI - a normal woman at a healthy weight looks “unusually” heavy by comparison.

[Anonymous]

I turned 40 this year. I am black, though pretty fair skinned and I am somewhat annoyed because I thought this was the one area where it was better to be black, LOL! We tend to age better than white women. I look at pictures of myself pre pandemic and now, and there is a visible difference. I take care of my skin, use SPF, eat pretty well, hydrate, etc. In 2020, I was 38 and felt that I looked fine. No wrinkles, no sagging, no eye creases. Now, I look beaten down. The stress of the pandemic took a greater toll on me than I realized. I have forehead wrinkles that didn't exist before, deeper nasolabial folds, and some eye crinkling. At 40, I think I now look 45. Friends have continued to compliment my good skin, and I think it is because they have known me a long time and just aren't noticing the change. I am noticing the change in how I am perceived by the public.

I am not depressed about it, and thinking about beauty/aging doesn't take up much mind space for me, but I can see how for some who traded more on their looks than they realized struggles with fading conventional beauty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A good facelift may look natural (and good ones definitely do) but it's hardly natural aging.
The rest of us are still stuck with our jowls at 50 and a tendency to feel bad about ourselves because the standard of Beauty of even white haired Helen Mirren is to be jowl-free and luminous at 78.

+1, just shows how internalized this all is, if the goal is *looks like natural aging*. Without the facelift, her career would have ended 20 years ago.

I'm the PP who said she's still allowed her face to age. I want to be more clear about this.

Helen Mirren is a film actress. I know we like to compare ourselves to and identify with celebrities like this, but they are not actually held to the same beauty standards. Their job is to appear on camera. And the standards are brutal on men too, even though they are not held to the same standards of youth as women are. Many, many male actors get face lifts after 50. Jaw lines are very important on screen. So to me, Helen Mirren getting a face lift to give her jaw a sharper line and get rid of jowels is like a major league pitcher getting a second Tommy John surgery -- it's a reasonable investment in her career. That doesn't mean you or I should go get a face lift (or Tommy Johns!). As I mentioned, many Hollywood actresses have had nose jobs as well. Maybe even Helen Mirren! it's just that they do this early in their career generally and it's not associated with aging. But these are common things done to improve appearance in order to benefit your career. It's a visual medium.

But Mirren absolutely has allowed her face to age. She has allowed her skin to wrinkle and her lips to think. There is no evidence of Botox or fillers that I can see. And when you see her smiling in a photograph and her face crinkles up? It's beautiful. And it would still be beautiful with jowels. The point is that she proves that wrinkles and sagging are not, in and of themselves, ugly. They are just signs of aging. Helen Mirren looks old but she also looks beautiful. That's very inspiring to me. I'm never going to be as beautiful as Helen Mirren (again, famous film actress versus regular person) but that doesn't mean I can's appreciate that she makes aging look pretty good.

Nobody blames her for doing whatever is required in her industry. I only blame people for suggesting her as a positive role model. If it has to be an actress, I'd nominate Maya Rudolf for portraying natural aging. She looks wealthy fifty to me, maybe it's work, not gonna check.

Helen Mirren is 77! Maya Rudolph just turned 50. If Helen Mirren's face lift is out of bounds, then Maya Rudolph is also cheating by actually being much younger

Did you know which thread you’re in?

[Anonymous]

I’m so glad i live in the suburban farm state in the Midwest. No one cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I turned 40 this year. I am black, though pretty fair skinned and I am somewhat annoyed because I thought this was the one area where it was better to be black, LOL! We tend to age better than white women. I look at pictures of myself pre pandemic and now, and there is a visible difference. I take care of my skin, use SPF, eat pretty well, hydrate, etc. In 2020, I was 38 and felt that I looked fine. No wrinkles, no sagging, no eye creases. Now, I look beaten down. The stress of the pandemic took a greater toll on me than I realized. I have forehead wrinkles that didn't exist before, deeper nasolabial folds, and some eye crinkling. At 40, I think I now look 45. Friends have continued to compliment my good skin, and I think it is because they have known me a long time and just aren't noticing the change. I am noticing the change in how I am perceived by the public.

I am not depressed about it, and thinking about beauty/aging doesn't take up much mind space for me, but I can see how for some who traded more on their looks than they realized struggles with fading conventional beauty.

Another black person here and you should know by 40 that lighter-skinned blacks don't age as well as darker skin black people.

[Anonymous]

So one area I really notice is that my neck and collarbones look really...sinewy and skinny and old. Not in a good way, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not mentally ready for botox/fillers/surgery. What else can I do at this point?

What makes you feel not ready? Honestly, Botox and fillers can make a HUGE difference as well as having great skin.

I’ve gotten Botox for over a decade but in the last year or so I added a little filler, as well as red light therapy, and when I see people I haven’t seen since pre covid everyone comments that I look “glowy” or healthier etc. I also got veneers and 2 dental implants.

You should get a consult and go from there. There’s nothing topical that will make a big difference.