Thoughts on cub scouts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

Wow. What a sad worldview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there were just a few places that didn't allow Scouts of color or Jewish Scouts. Would that be ok too because well YOUR kid gets so much from it.

If it’s chartered by a church I do not view it as wildly unreasonable that it comply with that church’s preaching. The available alternative - joining a different troop - is widely accessible

Except when it’s not, like in towns not large enough to host multiple troops, which are exactly the kind of places where LGBT kids need institutions not to discriminate against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

I’m not the poster you quoted but I would like to answer:

1. I would like them to admit to their wrongdoing and stop trying to avoid paying the victimized children.
2. I would like them to require all troops constituted under BSA to have accept LBGTQ scouts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

I’m not the poster you quoted but I would like to answer:

1. I would like them to admit to their wrongdoing and stop trying to avoid paying the victimized children.
2. I would like them to require all troops constituted under BSA to have accept LBGTQ scouts.

+1 and release any and all files they have on the abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there were just a few places that didn't allow Scouts of color or Jewish Scouts. Would that be ok too because well YOUR kid gets so much from it.

If it’s chartered by a church I do not view it as wildly unreasonable that it comply with that church’s preaching. The available alternative - joining a different troop - is widely accessible

And blacks used to be able to get a meal at a different restaurant. Totally fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

Some of the groups you listed are organizations and some are categories. Yes there’s absolutely no way I would leave my child in the care of the Catholic Church.. But “high school football” is not a single organization which had a sex abuse cover up— I would not let my kid participate in a program if it had.

The issue is also not that they haven’t paid “enough” restitution, because I personally don’t think there’s an “enough” that makes up for the betrayal. It’s actively trying to reduce the amount, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying, and continuing not to help the victims which I think makes it unlikely that the organization has genuinely changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

Some of the groups you listed are organizations and some are categories. Yes there’s absolutely no way I would leave my child in the care of the Catholic Church.. But “high school football” is not a single organization which had a sex abuse cover up— I would not let my kid participate in a program if it had.

The issue is also not that they haven’t paid “enough” restitution, because I personally don’t think there’s an “enough” that makes up for the betrayal. It’s actively trying to reduce the amount, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying, and continuing not to help the victims which I think makes it unlikely that the organization has genuinely changed.

+1. All the things they’ve done, they only did because they got caught. And indeed the Catholic Church continues to be deplorable and I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would still affiliate with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

Some of the groups you listed are organizations and some are categories. Yes there’s absolutely no way I would leave my child in the care of the Catholic Church.. But “high school football” is not a single organization which had a sex abuse cover up— I would not let my kid participate in a program if it had.

The issue is also not that they haven’t paid “enough” restitution, because I personally don’t think there’s an “enough” that makes up for the betrayal. It’s actively trying to reduce the amount, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying, and continuing not to help the victims which I think makes it unlikely that the organization has genuinely changed.

That is pretty much standard business practice. It was done for asbestos, talc powder (J&J), oxycotin,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

Some of the groups you listed are organizations and some are categories. Yes there’s absolutely no way I would leave my child in the care of the Catholic Church.. But “high school football” is not a single organization which had a sex abuse cover up— I would not let my kid participate in a program if it had.

The issue is also not that they haven’t paid “enough” restitution, because I personally don’t think there’s an “enough” that makes up for the betrayal. It’s actively trying to reduce the amount, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying, and continuing not to help the victims which I think makes it unlikely that the organization has genuinely changed.

That is pretty much standard business practice. It was done for asbestos, talc powder (J&J), oxycotin,

Does that make you feel like they are more trustworthy? That they will be incentivized to report and immediately take action if your child is being molested? Or will they follow their standard business practice and lie and cover it up, meanwhile your child suffers trauma?

I wouldn’t leave the Sackler family in charge of my child either but I think that’s an AWFULLY low bar against which to measure an institution which claims to be working in the service of children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

Some of the groups you listed are organizations and some are categories. Yes there’s absolutely no way I would leave my child in the care of the Catholic Church.. But “high school football” is not a single organization which had a sex abuse cover up— I would not let my kid participate in a program if it had.

The issue is also not that they haven’t paid “enough” restitution, because I personally don’t think there’s an “enough” that makes up for the betrayal. It’s actively trying to reduce the amount, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying, and continuing not to help the victims which I think makes it unlikely that the organization has genuinely changed.

That is pretty much standard business practice. It was done for asbestos, talc powder (J&J), oxycotin,

Does that make you feel like they are more trustworthy? That they will be incentivized to report and immediately take action if your child is being molested? Or will they follow their standard business practice and lie and cover it up, meanwhile your child suffers trauma?

I wouldn’t leave the Sackler family in charge of my child either but I think that’s an AWFULLY low bar against which to measure an institution which claims to be working in the service of children.

OK..fair point on the Sacklers but this is just common practice for class action suits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

Some of the groups you listed are organizations and some are categories. Yes there’s absolutely no way I would leave my child in the care of the Catholic Church.. But “high school football” is not a single organization which had a sex abuse cover up— I would not let my kid participate in a program if it had.

The issue is also not that they haven’t paid “enough” restitution, because I personally don’t think there’s an “enough” that makes up for the betrayal. It’s actively trying to reduce the amount, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying, and continuing not to help the victims which I think makes it unlikely that the organization has genuinely changed.

That is pretty much standard business practice. It was done for asbestos, talc powder (J&J), oxycotin,

Does that make you feel like they are more trustworthy? That they will be incentivized to report and immediately take action if your child is being molested? Or will they follow their standard business practice and lie and cover it up, meanwhile your child suffers trauma?

I wouldn’t leave the Sackler family in charge of my child either but I think that’s an AWFULLY low bar against which to measure an institution which claims to be working in the service of children.

OK..fair point on the Sacklers but this is just common practice for class action suits.

I’m sure you’re right about it being common practice, but it’s execution has made them, in my view, even less trustworthy with the safety of children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The trump jamboree has ruined them for me. I don’t even buy popcorn or mulch anymore. Nothing against individual kids l, obviously, but the organization revolts me.

BSA has always invited the POTUS. The POTUS doesn't have to attend. Sometimes the POTUS appears by video, like Obama. Sometimes in person, like Clinton. Sometimes, the FLOTUS attends (like Nancy Reagan). BSA also issued an apology after Trump's comments.

Biden will be invited in 2023. Biden was also in Boy Scouts (as it was then called). Per photographs, he at least achieved the rank of First Class.

Exactly. What more should they have done? It would be very politicized to NOT invite Trump if they had a standing policy of inviting every president. I cannot stand trump but do not want apolitical groups like Scouts to take political sides.

When Trump had the crowd booo Obama the leaders should have turned off his mike and had a long talk with the scouts about decency and respect. They didn’t. The adults booed along with him and cheered it on. I din’t want that type of behavior influencing my son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

Some of the groups you listed are organizations and some are categories. Yes there’s absolutely no way I would leave my child in the care of the Catholic Church.. But “high school football” is not a single organization which had a sex abuse cover up— I would not let my kid participate in a program if it had.

The issue is also not that they haven’t paid “enough” restitution, because I personally don’t think there’s an “enough” that makes up for the betrayal. It’s actively trying to reduce the amount, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying, and continuing not to help the victims which I think makes it unlikely that the organization has genuinely changed.

That is pretty much standard business practice. It was done for asbestos, talc powder (J&J), oxycotin,

Does that make you feel like they are more trustworthy? That they will be incentivized to report and immediately take action if your child is being molested? Or will they follow their standard business practice and lie and cover it up, meanwhile your child suffers trauma?

I wouldn’t leave the Sackler family in charge of my child either but I think that’s an AWFULLY low bar against which to measure an institution which claims to be working in the service of children.

OK..fair point on the Sacklers but this is just common practice for class action suits.

I’m sure you’re right about it being common practice, but it’s execution has made them, in my view, even less trustworthy with the safety of children.

So they sell off the assets, close the org, and just write checks to everyone that raises their hand as a victim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear

NP here. I hope those of you are are completely unforgiving of the BSA are equally strident about other organizations that have abused minors.

So, I hope that you are trying to get USA Gymnastics shut down, and the Catholic Church, high school football, college lacrosse and collegiate fraternities. All of these have had rampant sexual abuse of children and minors. All of them continue to provide programming. Most of them are in the same category of "not enough restitution" to their victims and most of them try to conceal the extent of the abuses that occurred within their organizations.

There are many organizations out there that have given protective cover for terrible, evil people who abused minors within their ranks. The BSA has had a LOT more reform in documented training and leadership and changes of practice than virtually all of those organizations.

Some of the groups you listed are organizations and some are categories. Yes there’s absolutely no way I would leave my child in the care of the Catholic Church.. But “high school football” is not a single organization which had a sex abuse cover up— I would not let my kid participate in a program if it had.

The issue is also not that they haven’t paid “enough” restitution, because I personally don’t think there’s an “enough” that makes up for the betrayal. It’s actively trying to reduce the amount, declare bankruptcy to avoid paying, and continuing not to help the victims which I think makes it unlikely that the organization has genuinely changed.

That is pretty much standard business practice. It was done for asbestos, talc powder (J&J), oxycotin,

Does that make you feel like they are more trustworthy? That they will be incentivized to report and immediately take action if your child is being molested? Or will they follow their standard business practice and lie and cover it up, meanwhile your child suffers trauma?

I wouldn’t leave the Sackler family in charge of my child either but I think that’s an AWFULLY low bar against which to measure an institution which claims to be working in the service of children.

OK..fair point on the Sacklers but this is just common practice for class action suits.

I’m sure you’re right about it being common practice, but it’s execution has made them, in my view, even less trustworthy with the safety of children.

So they sell off the assets, close the org, and just write checks to everyone that raises their hand as a victim.

And all current Cub Scouts/Scouts need to contribute to a fund in case more victims come forward or their descendants can make claims. Penalty payment should be made before the final meeting or will be referred to collections.