Thoughts on cub scouts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there were just a few places that didn't allow Scouts of color or Jewish Scouts. Would that be ok too because well YOUR kid gets so much from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there were just a few places that didn't allow Scouts of color or Jewish Scouts. Would that be ok too because well YOUR kid gets so much from it.

How do you know that pp's kid isn't a "scout of color" and/or "Jewish scout?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there

NP. PP's obnoxious response to a thoughtful perspective on scouting is so DCUM. Every institution has historical baggage. Scouting as an activity offers more in terms of experience, training, and learning skills than virtually any other organization out there and is especially good for non-athletic kids. You can feel free to judge the institution, but should not attack those who reached a different decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there

NP. PP's obnoxious response to a thoughtful perspective on scouting is so DCUM. Every institution has historical baggage. Scouting as an activity offers more in terms of experience, training, and learning skills than virtually any other organization out there and is especially good for non-athletic kids. You can feel free to judge the institution, but should not attack those who reached a different decision.

I do judge people who continue to support an organization that allows discrimination. None of the PPs who have referenced the exclusion have said that they are doing a damn thing to change it, just that it's not very prevalent so its not a big deal. I judge them doubly because they are acting as if the occupy some sort of moral high ground and are developing character in their children, all the while condoning this exclusion every time they go to a meeting, every time they pay their dues. Basically its ok if you just hit some people as long as you treat my kid well. It is deplorable. I mean do what you want to do but at least own it. At least acknowledge that you don't care about these other kids because you are getting what you need.

[Anonymous]

i loved it, but i found it to be a huge time commitment. on the other hand, my son did not love it, so we only did it the one year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there

NP. PP's obnoxious response to a thoughtful perspective on scouting is so DCUM. Every institution has historical baggage. Scouting as an activity offers more in terms of experience, training, and learning skills than virtually any other organization out there and is especially good for non-athletic kids. You can feel free to judge the institution, but should not attack those who reached a different decision.

DP. The problem isn’t their “historical baggage” so much as that now, today, they allow discrimination against LGBT kids, and that now, today, they’re still avoiding justice for their role in the abuse of thousands of children. Trying to avoid paying your victims is also what Alex Jones is doing too and I hope no one would defend him .

[Anonymous]

I'm sure the thousands of abused men and boys really appreciate being classified as "historical baggage".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there

NP. PP's obnoxious response to a thoughtful perspective on scouting is so DCUM. Every institution has historical baggage. Scouting as an activity offers more in terms of experience, training, and learning skills than virtually any other organization out there and is especially good for non-athletic kids. You can feel free to judge the institution, but should not attack those who reached a different decision.

I do judge people who continue to support an organization that allows discrimination. None of the PPs who have referenced the exclusion have said that they are doing a damn thing to change it, just that it's not very prevalent so its not a big deal. I judge them doubly because they are acting as if the occupy some sort of moral high ground and are developing character in their children, all the while condoning this exclusion every time they go to a meeting, every time they pay their dues. Basically its ok if you just hit some people as long as you treat my kid well. It is deplorable. I mean do what you want to do but at least own it. At least acknowledge that you don't care about these other kids because you are getting what you need.

I don’t judge people based on the institutions they support. If I did, I would have to negatively judge anybody who uses the public school system, any hospital or medical office, any church, etc. I’d have to judge all of us negatively… every single one of us. I can’t think of one human institution that is free of discrimination. Even a quick search on the Peace Corps unveiled a questionable past.

I judge people on how they act TODAY and what they do TODAY to make the world a better place. We can only condemn the past; we can’t change it. I’ve seen good work done by the children and parents in our Cub Scout troop. That’s what matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the thousands of abused men and boys really appreciate being classified as "historical baggage".

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People obviously have strong feelings.

My son has done scouts for about 7 years now and it has been positive for him (he has SN so I don’t say that lightly).

As a practical matter, I do think he is safer at BS events than most other events. I know the parents well and there are significant safety protections. He’s definitely more at risk at things like soccer camp, karate class, etc. if there’s risk, it probably comes from the other boys as there is a strong ethos of letting the older boys run things for younger boys and they have a lot of independence. We talk to our kids about pressure, inappropriate touching, etc. I think the risk exists everywhere.

The dues are pretty high because something like half of it goes to the settlement fund for past victims. I’m okay with that. They’ve also sold off a lot of property.

On the discrimination thing…boy scout troops are chartered by community groups (totally different structure than GS). Official BS policy is that the troops have to follow both BSA rules and the Chartering institution’s rules. In practice, I think there are extremely few chartering groups that require discrimination against gay scouts or leaders at this point. The LDS church all left BSA when it changed its policies, as did most of the evangelical churches—that is actually the biggest reason why BSA is struggling financially now (and certainly makes it harder to pay the victim settlement). Our troop is sponsored by a Catholic Church and has plenty of gay scouts—there is no issue with that. The church’s sponsorship is largely unnoticeable except that the pastor will come to the advancement ceremony and generally say a short blessing. And parent volunteers are required to take the extensive Catholic Church child protection course in addition to the BSA one.

Every parent has to make their own choice, of course, and life is full of compromises and institutions that have a lot of historical baggage. It has worked for us and we have not found it to be cultish. But I would definitely be involved and a give so you know the other parents and the vibe of the troop/pack.

So there's an acceptable level of discrimination and exclusion for you then. Its ok because its just a little bit. What if there were just a few places that didn't allow Scouts of color or Jewish Scouts. Would that be ok too because well YOUR kid gets so much from it.

If it’s chartered by a church I do not view it as wildly unreasonable that it comply with that church’s preaching. The available alternative - joining a different troop - is widely accessible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

[Anonymous]

I hear the viewpoint being shared that severest punishment for child abusers and then permanent banishment of their former employers and next-door neighbors who “should have known” is an option. But that really does not quite work. It has that vengeful and temporarily satisfying feel, but after all of the good works achieved by these imperfect organizations, churches and schools are swept away by zelots, we would be left with whatever the government might choose to substitute. Fortunately the law of this nation is not written to serve zelots. Instead, the victims will have justice and Cub Scouts and the BSA with their already-upgraded youth protection program will continue for decades and maybe a second century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’d like to join an organization that basically did a sorry/not sorry on decades of sexual abuse then sure. If not, then no.

I know that they've cleaned house and changed their policies, but between this and the years of being anti-LGBTQ, I just couldn't do it

+1 Not enough reform.

“Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about things that matter.” - MLK Jr.

Supporting/participating in the Boy Scouts is tacit approval. They have made strides in some areas, not so much in others.

Curious to know what enough reform would be for you? They now accept LGBTQ members. They gave a strong youth protection policy. They need to solve world hunger? What are you looking for?

+1
I would like to know this, too.
If people are already cleaning house, changing policies, speaking publicly about previous sins AND working for change, what else can they do?

Disappear