Is middle school always miserable? (Mean girls)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's always been like this. Phones don't make a difference. Girls in middle school start to develop their personalities. Some are strong (and stand up to bullying) but are usually quirky and considered not popular. Other's go along and participate by association.

+1

[Anonymous]

It really just comes down to the luck of the draw with who the mix of kids is.

I have two kids in private school:

In one class there are about 4 "popular" kids out of 85. The rest of the class largely goes about their business, drama free. It's a great class.
In the other the "popular" crowd is about 20 kids out of 85. It impacts the class to a much larger degree. There are always kids getting excluded, hurt, made fun of, etc.

Luck of the draw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to feel insecure that there's a trend on this thread that some middle schoolers have had fewer negative social experiences and go to very diverse schools.

There are pros and cons to every situation. I'm sure kids who attend less diverse, UMC, schools have things about it they like a lot, that my family would really envy. And I bet some of those kids have great social experiences, too.

The topic of the thread is: Is middle school always miserable?
People can say: not at my school and this is the reason why IMO

You don't have to discount someone else's experience.

It's not a binary thing.

No one feels insecure. But of course you thinks that’s what is going on. People are pointing out that it’s unlikely, as some are suggesting exists, there is a unicorn middle school environment where everyone gets along all the time and all the kids are all inclusive, kind, empathetic humans.

I agree with you it’s not always miserable. Not at all. My kids have overall liked middle school. But all have had their moments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would love some perspective from others, especially if you have a girl…

DD just started 7th and the mean girl behavior is out of control. It definitely started last year, or maybe even a bit in 4th or 5th grade as friend dynamics started to change. I think she is on the periphery of the “cool” crowd but honestly the girls are all just so brutal to one another overall. It’s like they single a couple people out at a time and just make their lives miserable, then they move on to someone else. I just found out that one girl was tormented so much last year that her parents moved her to another school. I don’t think my DD is one of the active mean girls, but she is definitely guilty by association because she does nothing to those being singled out (and has been one the receiving end a few times). She explains to me that you either follow along or they make your life beyond miserable (spreading lies about you, sending you hate message on social media or by text, playing pranks at school, etc).

I have talked to a few friends with similar age kids and they seem to be experiencing the same with their girls in different schools… so is this just everywhere? Does it get better in high school?

At least in our case these girls are from good families with involved parents so I don’t understand why nothing at all can be done to curb the behavior.

Do you know the parents at all OP? I'm wondering if you can say anything to a parent. Some parents will just get defensive but some truly would not want their kids to be mean to anyone. Only you know the parents in question to figure that out.

To a certain extent though, it really is important to stress with your own kids the importance of being kind, and to stand up for other people. It may be hard right now, but it will help later in life. My kid was this way all of 6th grade and she barely had any friends - she was probably bullied until April. But now (it's kind of self selection actually - jerks like to associate with jerks or doormats) she has a lot of good friends, and they are quirky, kind and funny. Not the popular crowd, but decent kids. Eventually people figure out who is worth spending time with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to feel insecure that there's a trend on this thread that some middle schoolers have had fewer negative social experiences and go to very diverse schools.

There are pros and cons to every situation. I'm sure kids who attend less diverse, UMC, schools have things about it they like a lot, that my family would really envy. And I bet some of those kids have great social experiences, too.

The topic of the thread is: Is middle school always miserable?
People can say: not at my school and this is the reason why IMO

You don't have to discount someone else's experience.

It's not a binary thing.

No one feels insecure. But of course you thinks that’s what is going on. People are pointing out that it’s unlikely, as some are suggesting exists, there is a unicorn middle school environment where everyone gets along all the time and all the kids are all inclusive, kind, empathetic humans.

I agree with you it’s not always miserable. Not at all. My kids have overall liked middle school. But all have had their moments.

It isn’t miserable for most. When I was in middle school I wasn’t part of the popular girls crowd. But I wasn’t a social outcast or savagely picked on either. I had a few friends and was largely just fine- as the vast majority of kids were then and now. If your child is having a terrible time and is miserable, more so than so bad days here and there, that isn’t normal.

[Anonymous]

If your child is having a terrible time and is miserable, more so than so bad days here and there, that isn’t normal.

Unfortunately, it is completely normal (meaning that it happens often) to kids with disabilities, kids who are socially awkward, kids who are overweight etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If your child is having a terrible time and is miserable, more so than so bad days here and there, that isn’t normal.

Unfortunately, it is completely normal (meaning that it happens often) to kids with disabilities, kids who are socially awkward, kids who are overweight etc.

I have to say that I was a kid with a disability and lucked out,. I can see MS being a cchange and a challenge, but miserable i cant imagine that being normal either. Middle school wasbt terrible for ne. I still say MS shouldn't even be a thing if it's so miserable. You'd eliminate so many problems. It's sp sad so many kids are miserable when it's really the last time you can be a kid.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, it is completely normal (meaning that it happens often) to kids with disabilities, kids who are socially awkward, kids who are overweight etc.


I have to say that I was a kid with a disability and lucked out,. I can see MS being a cchange and a challenge, but miserable i cant imagine that being normal either.

That's great to hear, genuinely. I thought it was clear that I was not referring to every single person with every single type of disability, but in case it wasn't, I was speaking about on the whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Unfortunately, it is completely normal (meaning that it happens often) to kids with disabilities, kids who are socially awkward, kids who are overweight etc.


I have to say that I was a kid with a disability and lucked out,. I can see MS being a cchange and a challenge, but miserable i cant imagine that being normal either.

That's great to hear, genuinely. I thought it was clear that I was not referring to every single person with every single type of disability, but in case it wasn't, I was speaking about on the whole.

I wasn't saying or thinking that about your comments at all . I was just sharing my experience and perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been like this. Phones don't make a difference. Girls in middle school start to develop their personalities. Some are strong (and stand up to bullying) but are usually quirky and considered not popular. Other's go along and participate by association.

+1

I agree. It’s always been like this. But phones definitely make it worse.

The kids are constantly exposed to what everyone else is doing and saying - it’s non-stop, overwhelming social stimulus, unless they know how to filter it or step back when they need a break.

Some kids do this naturally. They just have a more limited appetite for social stimulus. They get their fill and then turn their attention to things that interest them more.

Other kids can’t self-regulate that way. Either because they just find the social stuff more compelling than anything else, or maybe because it lights up their brain in a way that compels them to keep coming back for another hit (either anxiety or high stimulation/dopamine-seeking needs etc.)

Add in the normal teen limitations/under-developed impulse-control and decision-making abilities, and the phones make everything MUCH worse!! 😢

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been like this. Phones don't make a difference. Girls in middle school start to develop their personalities. Some are strong (and stand up to bullying) but are usually quirky and considered not popular. Other's go along and participate by association.

+1

I agree. It’s always been like this. But phones definitely make it worse.

The kids are constantly exposed to what everyone else is doing and saying - it’s non-stop, overwhelming social stimulus, unless they know how to filter it or step back when they need a break.

Some kids do this naturally. They just have a more limited appetite for social stimulus. They get their fill and then turn their attention to things that interest them more.

Other kids can’t self-regulate that way. Either because they just find the social stuff more compelling than anything else, or maybe because it lights up their brain in a way that compels them to keep coming back for another hit (either anxiety or high stimulation/dopamine-seeking needs etc.)

Add in the normal teen limitations/under-developed impulse-control and decision-making abilities, and the phones make everything MUCH worse!! 😢

Sad but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are groups of mean girls in every school and they are not necessarily the ones who are popular. In the cases we've seen it's girls who want to be seen as popular so they start excluding or putting down other people so that they can feel superior. They some times have a lot of issues like they are not that attractive but try hard. They aren't good at school so they put their energy into other things.
It's really immaturity and pettiness. Most middle schools in our area are large so you can easily avoid these girls.

The mean girl at my daughter’s school was essentially a transboy. Had a lot of personal problems. Was violent and relentless. Kid left school last year, thankfully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been like this. Phones don't make a difference. Girls in middle school start to develop their personalities. Some are strong (and stand up to bullying) but are usually quirky and considered not popular. Other's go along and participate by association.

+1

I agree. It’s always been like this. But phones definitely make it worse.

The kids are constantly exposed to what everyone else is doing and saying - it’s non-stop, overwhelming social stimulus, unless they know how to filter it or step back when they need a break.

Some kids do this naturally. They just have a more limited appetite for social stimulus. They get their fill and then turn their attention to things that interest them more.

Other kids can’t self-regulate that way. Either because they just find the social stuff more compelling than anything else, or maybe because it lights up their brain in a way that compels them to keep coming back for another hit (either anxiety or high stimulation/dopamine-seeking needs etc.)

Add in the normal teen limitations/under-developed impulse-control and decision-making abilities, and the phones make everything MUCH worse!! 😢

But how does that make middle school miserable? I think you just went on an anti-phone tangent.

Look, I'm not a fan of constant phone usage either - but it doesn't mean that middle school is more (or less) miserable now than it was was when we were young.

[Anonymous]

No, it isn’t.

If kids are not taught how to be kind, they won’t be. Usually, schools without adults teaching how to deal with conflict have this problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's always been like this. Phones don't make a difference. Girls in middle school start to develop their personalities. Some are strong (and stand up to bullying) but are usually quirky and considered not popular. Other's go along and participate by association.

+1

I agree. It’s always been like this. But phones definitely make it worse.

The kids are constantly exposed to what everyone else is doing and saying - it’s non-stop, overwhelming social stimulus, unless they know how to filter it or step back when they need a break.

Some kids do this naturally. They just have a more limited appetite for social stimulus. They get their fill and then turn their attention to things that interest them more.

Other kids can’t self-regulate that way. Either because they just find the social stuff more compelling than anything else, or maybe because it lights up their brain in a way that compels them to keep coming back for another hit (either anxiety or high stimulation/dopamine-seeking needs etc.)

Add in the normal teen limitations/under-developed impulse-control and decision-making abilities, and the phones make everything MUCH worse!! 😢

But how does that make middle school miserable? I think you just went on an anti-phone tangent.

Look, I'm not a fan of constant phone usage either - but it doesn't mean that middle school is more (or less) miserable now than it was was when we were young.

It absolutely does. Before phones, if someone was going to mean to you, it was to your face (which takes more, um...motivation). Talking behind backs was generally limited to school hours also. “Exclusion” was also different since there wasn’t social media (and kids on phone always on it) and you had no way of knowing who was doing what with whom. Not entirely, but kids were certainly less aware of plans that didn’t involve them.

Now that there is social media, group texts/chats, phones, recordings, there are so many more ways for kids to be mean to each other at all hours of the day/night. It is so much easier to say something unkind in a text than it is to say that to a person. Or to spread a rumor or gossip via group text or posting it to social media is a whole different animal than a girl saying something to another two by the lockers. And the feelings of exclusions kids have now are very intense. In many cases, no one is even intentionally being mean or excluding, but plans are found out bc of technology and kid not there then feels it was personal and they are being mean, etc.

Phones are a huge huge part of the problem.