Inspired is keeping indoor masks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Inspired represents the far end of the very liberal spectrum. For example, I recently reviewed an 8th grader’s report card, which uses objective based grading. There was only one objective for Social Studies/History: “I am aware institutional bias limits individuals freedoms.” (This is paraphrased not a direct quote but pretty close.) If the only thing students are learning about in history class is that systemic racism exists, I am not surprised that they also have adopted a masking policy that is aligned with recent NYT/Pew research that those identifying as very liberal take COVID the most seriously.

(I’m not trying to hijack this thread to be about systemic racism, which certainly exists. But I did think it was strange that the only objective for the course was an acknowledgment of its existence. Math and reading had ~15 skills listed.)

It represents the far end of the very *performative* liberal spectrum. Let's not forget, it's still a charter we self-loathing liberals all chose over our neighborhood schools. Shrug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inspired represents the far end of the very liberal spectrum. For example, I recently reviewed an 8th grader’s report card, which uses objective based grading. There was only one objective for Social Studies/History: “I am aware institutional bias limits individuals freedoms.” (This is paraphrased not a direct quote but pretty close.) If the only thing students are learning about in history class is that systemic racism exists, I am not surprised that they also have adopted a masking policy that is aligned with recent NYT/Pew research that those identifying as very liberal take COVID the most seriously.

(I’m not trying to hijack this thread to be about systemic racism, which certainly exists. But I did think it was strange that the only objective for the course was an acknowledgment of its existence. Math and reading had ~15 skills listed.)

It represents the far end of the very *performative* liberal spectrum. Let's not forget, it's still a charter we self-loathing liberals all chose over our neighborhood schools. Shrug.

Yep. Making a fuss about adults wearing masks outside for 5 minutes is very on brand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of this conversation seems to ignore the fact that two things can exist at the same time: we can show our kids that no one is above the rules, AND have critical conversations at home about whether or not we agree with the rules, what to do if a rule is truly unfair and oppressive, what science tells us, etc. We aren't lemmings blindly following each other off of cliffs. We believe we are part of a community. If a masking rule (which, let's not forget, up until a few weeks ago, ALL schools were following!) felt so truly oppressive to us, we would find a new school option. And, this school (and others I imagine) helps equip kids for those challenges and reflections too. At the beginning of the year, MS students felt that some portions of the dress code were unfair and discriminatory. They took their case to the administration which received the feedback, processed it, and changed the dress code. That's a more important win for me than not wearing a mask at pick up.

This is a great example - thanks for sharing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of this conversation seems to ignore the fact that two things can exist at the same time: we can show our kids that no one is above the rules, AND have critical conversations at home about whether or not we agree with the rules, what to do if a rule is truly unfair and oppressive, what science tells us, etc. We aren't lemmings blindly following each other off of cliffs. We believe we are part of a community. If a masking rule (which, let's not forget, up until a few weeks ago, ALL schools were following!) felt so truly oppressive to us, we would find a new school option. And, this school (and others I imagine) helps equip kids for those challenges and reflections too. At the beginning of the year, MS students felt that some portions of the dress code were unfair and discriminatory. They took their case to the administration which received the feedback, processed it, and changed the dress code. That's a more important win for me than not wearing a mask at pick up.

This is a great example - thanks for sharing it.

One shouldn’t have to make a case for a school to follow local and national guidelines based on recent science.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I told my 4 yr old daughter she could take her mask off outside when she goes back to school (at ITDS) on Monday and she was ecstatic. She would love to unmask if she could.

Our school has an elaborate phased *outdoor* unmasking policy over a period of weeks. It’s a waste of resources. And parents must still mask up outdoors. Only in DC… I’d be OK if that were the indoor unmasking plan but nope that’s not even on the table yet.

Serious question: What would actually happen if a parent was outside and unmasked? Would they punish the student?

I’m pretty sure they would politely remind me to put on a mask. There’s 100% compliance so it would be weird.

I pick up and drop off at ITDS. There was a time with 100% compliance with parents masking outside 6 feet away from each other. More and more parents are dropping the nonsense.

I stopped masking outside at pick up but still see the majority of parents outside with their heavy duty masks. It’s ridiculous at this point

Maybe I am one of the parents you see. I only have one kind of mask in rotation, so it’s a KN95 that I throw on for a few minutes so I can show my kids and other kids that while this rule is in effect, adults follow it too. With outdoor masking now optional, I will be without it. But until then, it didn’t seem appropriate to pass along a message that a rule I didn’t like didn’t apply to me.

I find this view interesting. So you want to teach your kids to blindly follow rules that make absolutely no sense scientifically according to the actual health officials? I don’t under this from a parenting perspective but I want my kids to be rational and understand when “authorities” are wrong. As they often are…

Yes, I do. That's part of living in a civil society. We're not "blindly" following the rules. We're choosing to follow them for various reasons that make sense to us. Not everything is about science, some of it is about social relationships and the social contract. We all sometimes follow rules that we don't think are scientifically sensible and that some actual heath officials dislike. Probably some rules that you think are super important and well-founded, other people think are stupid. I teach my kids to pick their battles and take a stand when it is truly important, and that in general they should follow the rules unless they have a compelling reason. And I don't want every random person making their own scientific judgments.

If you're doing a thing you know is stupid to make other people feel comfortable, and they're doing a thing they know is stupid to make you feel comfortable, then all you have is a bunch of people doing something they know is stupid and isn't actually making anyone feel comfortable.

I don't think it's stupid. I think it doesn't make a difference but is not harmful (talking about masks at pickup and dropoff) and is not overly burdensome. So it's worth it for the sake of other people's comfort and the spirit of compromise. And the rule that the school makes the rules and doesn't change them without deliberation seems like a good one.

Science tells us all kinds of crazy things that schools don't follow, btw. Are you going to get wound up about all of them?

I don't get wound up about this because I just don't do it. But you're missing that the dynamic you're creating when you condescendingly assume that other parents are scientifically illiterate and you mask for their comfort is that they're doing that for you, too. And then the school looks at you and also assumes that your masking actually says something about your own comfort levels. A

Sorry but some people really do think it matters. Read the IFA listserv and you'll hear from them. I think it's silly, but they definitely exist.

What about all the other science stuff related to education? Are you on your high horse about each and every school policy choice that doesn't quite match? Or just this one?

Can you list some? Masking outside is so embarrassing and outside mainstream norm for its scientific illiteracy, but I would be interested in hearing others.

+! I was wondering the same. "ALL the other science stuff" makes it sounds like there are quite a lot of policies that schools follow that are antithetical to science.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I told my 4 yr old daughter she could take her mask off outside when she goes back to school (at ITDS) on Monday and she was ecstatic. She would love to unmask if she could.

Our school has an elaborate phased *outdoor* unmasking policy over a period of weeks. It’s a waste of resources. And parents must still mask up outdoors. Only in DC… I’d be OK if that were the indoor unmasking plan but nope that’s not even on the table yet.

Serious question: What would actually happen if a parent was outside and unmasked? Would they punish the student?

I’m pretty sure they would politely remind me to put on a mask. There’s 100% compliance so it would be weird.

I pick up and drop off at ITDS. There was a time with 100% compliance with parents masking outside 6 feet away from each other. More and more parents are dropping the nonsense.

I stopped masking outside at pick up but still see the majority of parents outside with their heavy duty masks. It’s ridiculous at this point

Maybe I am one of the parents you see. I only have one kind of mask in rotation, so it’s a KN95 that I throw on for a few minutes so I can show my kids and other kids that while this rule is in effect, adults follow it too. With outdoor masking now optional, I will be without it. But until then, it didn’t seem appropriate to pass along a message that a rule I didn’t like didn’t apply to me.

I find this view interesting. So you want to teach your kids to blindly follow rules that make absolutely no sense scientifically according to the actual health officials? I don’t under this from a parenting perspective but I want my kids to be rational and understand when “authorities” are wrong. As they often are…

Yes, I do. That's part of living in a civil society. We're not "blindly" following the rules. We're choosing to follow them for various reasons that make sense to us. Not everything is about science, some of it is about social relationships and the social contract. We all sometimes follow rules that we don't think are scientifically sensible and that some actual heath officials dislike. Probably some rules that you think are super important and well-founded, other people think are stupid. I teach my kids to pick their battles and take a stand when it is truly important, and that in general they should follow the rules unless they have a compelling reason. And I don't want every random person making their own scientific judgments.

If you're doing a thing you know is stupid to make other people feel comfortable, and they're doing a thing they know is stupid to make you feel comfortable, then all you have is a bunch of people doing something they know is stupid and isn't actually making anyone feel comfortable.

I don't think it's stupid. I think it doesn't make a difference but is not harmful (talking about masks at pickup and dropoff) and is not overly burdensome. So it's worth it for the sake of other people's comfort and the spirit of compromise. And the rule that the school makes the rules and doesn't change them without deliberation seems like a good one.

Science tells us all kinds of crazy things that schools don't follow, btw. Are you going to get wound up about all of them?

I don't get wound up about this because I just don't do it. But you're missing that the dynamic you're creating when you condescendingly assume that other parents are scientifically illiterate and you mask for their comfort is that they're doing that for you, too. And then the school looks at you and also assumes that your masking actually says something about your own comfort levels. A

Sorry but some people really do think it matters. Read the IFA listserv and you'll hear from them. I think it's silly, but they definitely exist.

What about all the other science stuff related to education? Are you on your high horse about each and every school policy choice that doesn't quite match? Or just this one?

Can you list some? Masking outside is so embarrassing and outside mainstream norm for its scientific illiteracy, but I would be interested in hearing others.

+! I was wondering the same. "ALL the other science stuff" makes it sounds like there are quite a lot of policies that schools follow that are antithetical to science.

Another example is capping class size at 24, which often ends up at 22 because they don't backfill after October. The science on class size is basically that it doesn't matter very much, so personally I think adding more kids would bring in money without harming performance. But they persist in having small classes and are often asking parents to donate money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I told my 4 yr old daughter she could take her mask off outside when she goes back to school (at ITDS) on Monday and she was ecstatic. She would love to unmask if she could.

Our school has an elaborate phased *outdoor* unmasking policy over a period of weeks. It’s a waste of resources. And parents must still mask up outdoors. Only in DC… I’d be OK if that were the indoor unmasking plan but nope that’s not even on the table yet.

Serious question: What would actually happen if a parent was outside and unmasked? Would they punish the student?

I’m pretty sure they would politely remind me to put on a mask. There’s 100% compliance so it would be weird.

I pick up and drop off at ITDS. There was a time with 100% compliance with parents masking outside 6 feet away from each other. More and more parents are dropping the nonsense.

I stopped masking outside at pick up but still see the majority of parents outside with their heavy duty masks. It’s ridiculous at this point

Maybe I am one of the parents you see. I only have one kind of mask in rotation, so it’s a KN95 that I throw on for a few minutes so I can show my kids and other kids that while this rule is in effect, adults follow it too. With outdoor masking now optional, I will be without it. But until then, it didn’t seem appropriate to pass along a message that a rule I didn’t like didn’t apply to me.

I find this view interesting. So you want to teach your kids to blindly follow rules that make absolutely no sense scientifically according to the actual health officials? I don’t under this from a parenting perspective but I want my kids to be rational and understand when “authorities” are wrong. As they often are…

Yes, I do. That's part of living in a civil society. We're not "blindly" following the rules. We're choosing to follow them for various reasons that make sense to us. Not everything is about science, some of it is about social relationships and the social contract. We all sometimes follow rules that we don't think are scientifically sensible and that some actual heath officials dislike. Probably some rules that you think are super important and well-founded, other people think are stupid. I teach my kids to pick their battles and take a stand when it is truly important, and that in general they should follow the rules unless they have a compelling reason. And I don't want every random person making their own scientific judgments.

If you're doing a thing you know is stupid to make other people feel comfortable, and they're doing a thing they know is stupid to make you feel comfortable, then all you have is a bunch of people doing something they know is stupid and isn't actually making anyone feel comfortable.

I don't think it's stupid. I think it doesn't make a difference but is not harmful (talking about masks at pickup and dropoff) and is not overly burdensome. So it's worth it for the sake of other people's comfort and the spirit of compromise. And the rule that the school makes the rules and doesn't change them without deliberation seems like a good one.

Science tells us all kinds of crazy things that schools don't follow, btw. Are you going to get wound up about all of them?

I don't get wound up about this because I just don't do it. But you're missing that the dynamic you're creating when you condescendingly assume that other parents are scientifically illiterate and you mask for their comfort is that they're doing that for you, too. And then the school looks at you and also assumes that your masking actually says something about your own comfort levels. A

Sorry but some people really do think it matters. Read the IFA listserv and you'll hear from them. I think it's silly, but they definitely exist.

What about all the other science stuff related to education? Are you on your high horse about each and every school policy choice that doesn't quite match? Or just this one?

Can you list some? Masking outside is so embarrassing and outside mainstream norm for its scientific illiteracy, but I would be interested in hearing others.

+! I was wondering the same. "ALL the other science stuff" makes it sounds like there are quite a lot of policies that schools follow that are antithetical to science.

Another example is capping class size at 24, which often ends up at 22 because they don't backfill after October. The science on class size is basically that it doesn't matter very much, so personally I think adding more kids would bring in money without harming performance. But they persist in having small classes and are often asking parents to donate money.

It is reasonably within the purview of schools and school systems to make curricular and class size decisions. That doesn't mean I can't disagree. I do support phonics instruction, and I did that with my kids, and I think other kids should get that as well. But it's not inherently illegitimate for schools to be making the choices they are, and also these are choices lots of other school systems are making, which means you can be using a reasonable set of heuristics to get there, even if the decision you ultimately make is one I would not pick. Outdoor school masking is very different on both counts. Schools have no business making decisions in this area that deviate so much from public health guidelines. And this isn't just a bad choice, it's a practically unique bad choice. If you're one of the only schools doing something stupid, that is worse and reflects more poorly than if you're making the same error as everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I told my 4 yr old daughter she could take her mask off outside when she goes back to school (at ITDS) on Monday and she was ecstatic. She would love to unmask if she could.

Our school has an elaborate phased *outdoor* unmasking policy over a period of weeks. It’s a waste of resources. And parents must still mask up outdoors. Only in DC… I’d be OK if that were the indoor unmasking plan but nope that’s not even on the table yet.

Serious question: What would actually happen if a parent was outside and unmasked? Would they punish the student?

I’m pretty sure they would politely remind me to put on a mask. There’s 100% compliance so it would be weird.

I pick up and drop off at ITDS. There was a time with 100% compliance with parents masking outside 6 feet away from each other. More and more parents are dropping the nonsense.

I stopped masking outside at pick up but still see the majority of parents outside with their heavy duty masks. It’s ridiculous at this point

Maybe I am one of the parents you see. I only have one kind of mask in rotation, so it’s a KN95 that I throw on for a few minutes so I can show my kids and other kids that while this rule is in effect, adults follow it too. With outdoor masking now optional, I will be without it. But until then, it didn’t seem appropriate to pass along a message that a rule I didn’t like didn’t apply to me.

I find this view interesting. So you want to teach your kids to blindly follow rules that make absolutely no sense scientifically according to the actual health officials? I don’t under this from a parenting perspective but I want my kids to be rational and understand when “authorities” are wrong. As they often are…

Yes, I do. That's part of living in a civil society. We're not "blindly" following the rules. We're choosing to follow them for various reasons that make sense to us. Not everything is about science, some of it is about social relationships and the social contract. We all sometimes follow rules that we don't think are scientifically sensible and that some actual heath officials dislike. Probably some rules that you think are super important and well-founded, other people think are stupid. I teach my kids to pick their battles and take a stand when it is truly important, and that in general they should follow the rules unless they have a compelling reason. And I don't want every random person making their own scientific judgments.

If you're doing a thing you know is stupid to make other people feel comfortable, and they're doing a thing they know is stupid to make you feel comfortable, then all you have is a bunch of people doing something they know is stupid and isn't actually making anyone feel comfortable.

I don't think it's stupid. I think it doesn't make a difference but is not harmful (talking about masks at pickup and dropoff) and is not overly burdensome. So it's worth it for the sake of other people's comfort and the spirit of compromise. And the rule that the school makes the rules and doesn't change them without deliberation seems like a good one.

Science tells us all kinds of crazy things that schools don't follow, btw. Are you going to get wound up about all of them?

I don't get wound up about this because I just don't do it. But you're missing that the dynamic you're creating when you condescendingly assume that other parents are scientifically illiterate and you mask for their comfort is that they're doing that for you, too. And then the school looks at you and also assumes that your masking actually says something about your own comfort levels. A

Sorry but some people really do think it matters. Read the IFA listserv and you'll hear from them. I think it's silly, but they definitely exist.

What about all the other science stuff related to education? Are you on your high horse about each and every school policy choice that doesn't quite match? Or just this one?

Can you list some? Masking outside is so embarrassing and outside mainstream norm for its scientific illiteracy, but I would be interested in hearing others.

+! I was wondering the same. "ALL the other science stuff" makes it sounds like there are quite a lot of policies that schools follow that are antithetical to science.

Another example is capping class size at 24, which often ends up at 22 because they don't backfill after October. The science on class size is basically that it doesn't matter very much, so personally I think adding more kids would bring in money without harming performance. But they persist in having small classes and are often asking parents to donate money.

Isn't their intent more about student:teacher ratio than class size?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I told my 4 yr old daughter she could take her mask off outside when she goes back to school (at ITDS) on Monday and she was ecstatic. She would love to unmask if she could.

Our school has an elaborate phased *outdoor* unmasking policy over a period of weeks. It’s a waste of resources. And parents must still mask up outdoors. Only in DC… I’d be OK if that were the indoor unmasking plan but nope that’s not even on the table yet.

Serious question: What would actually happen if a parent was outside and unmasked? Would they punish the student?

I’m pretty sure they would politely remind me to put on a mask. There’s 100% compliance so it would be weird.

I pick up and drop off at ITDS. There was a time with 100% compliance with parents masking outside 6 feet away from each other. More and more parents are dropping the nonsense.

I stopped masking outside at pick up but still see the majority of parents outside with their heavy duty masks. It’s ridiculous at this point

Maybe I am one of the parents you see. I only have one kind of mask in rotation, so it’s a KN95 that I throw on for a few minutes so I can show my kids and other kids that while this rule is in effect, adults follow it too. With outdoor masking now optional, I will be without it. But until then, it didn’t seem appropriate to pass along a message that a rule I didn’t like didn’t apply to me.

I find this view interesting. So you want to teach your kids to blindly follow rules that make absolutely no sense scientifically according to the actual health officials? I don’t under this from a parenting perspective but I want my kids to be rational and understand when “authorities” are wrong. As they often are…

Yes, I do. That's part of living in a civil society. We're not "blindly" following the rules. We're choosing to follow them for various reasons that make sense to us. Not everything is about science, some of it is about social relationships and the social contract. We all sometimes follow rules that we don't think are scientifically sensible and that some actual heath officials dislike. Probably some rules that you think are super important and well-founded, other people think are stupid. I teach my kids to pick their battles and take a stand when it is truly important, and that in general they should follow the rules unless they have a compelling reason. And I don't want every random person making their own scientific judgments.

If you're doing a thing you know is stupid to make other people feel comfortable, and they're doing a thing they know is stupid to make you feel comfortable, then all you have is a bunch of people doing something they know is stupid and isn't actually making anyone feel comfortable.

I don't think it's stupid. I think it doesn't make a difference but is not harmful (talking about masks at pickup and dropoff) and is not overly burdensome. So it's worth it for the sake of other people's comfort and the spirit of compromise. And the rule that the school makes the rules and doesn't change them without deliberation seems like a good one.

Science tells us all kinds of crazy things that schools don't follow, btw. Are you going to get wound up about all of them?

I don't get wound up about this because I just don't do it. But you're missing that the dynamic you're creating when you condescendingly assume that other parents are scientifically illiterate and you mask for their comfort is that they're doing that for you, too. And then the school looks at you and also assumes that your masking actually says something about your own comfort levels. A

Sorry but some people really do think it matters. Read the IFA listserv and you'll hear from them. I think it's silly, but they definitely exist.

What about all the other science stuff related to education? Are you on your high horse about each and every school policy choice that doesn't quite match? Or just this one?

Can you list some? Masking outside is so embarrassing and outside mainstream norm for its scientific illiteracy, but I would be interested in hearing others.

+! I was wondering the same. "ALL the other science stuff" makes it sounds like there are quite a lot of policies that schools follow that are antithetical to science.

Another example is capping class size at 24, which often ends up at 22 because they don't backfill after October. The science on class size is basically that it doesn't matter very much, so personally I think adding more kids would bring in money without harming performance. But they persist in having small classes and are often asking parents to donate money.

This is pretty weak sauce for "denying the science" and not at all outside the mainstream, unlike the masking position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Another example is capping class size at 24, which often ends up at 22 because they don't backfill after October. The science on class size is basically that it doesn't matter very much, so personally I think adding more kids would bring in money without harming performance. But they persist in having small classes and are often asking parents to donate money.

Hmmm. This is a pretty bad example since class size is one of the few things rigorous research has linked with student achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I told my 4 yr old daughter she could take her mask off outside when she goes back to school (at ITDS) on Monday and she was ecstatic. She would love to unmask if she could.

Our school has an elaborate phased *outdoor* unmasking policy over a period of weeks. It’s a waste of resources. And parents must still mask up outdoors. Only in DC… I’d be OK if that were the indoor unmasking plan but nope that’s not even on the table yet.

Serious question: What would actually happen if a parent was outside and unmasked? Would they punish the student?

I’m pretty sure they would politely remind me to put on a mask. There’s 100% compliance so it would be weird.

I pick up and drop off at ITDS. There was a time with 100% compliance with parents masking outside 6 feet away from each other. More and more parents are dropping the nonsense.

I stopped masking outside at pick up but still see the majority of parents outside with their heavy duty masks. It’s ridiculous at this point

Maybe I am one of the parents you see. I only have one kind of mask in rotation, so it’s a KN95 that I throw on for a few minutes so I can show my kids and other kids that while this rule is in effect, adults follow it too. With outdoor masking now optional, I will be without it. But until then, it didn’t seem appropriate to pass along a message that a rule I didn’t like didn’t apply to me.

I find this view interesting. So you want to teach your kids to blindly follow rules that make absolutely no sense scientifically according to the actual health officials? I don’t under this from a parenting perspective but I want my kids to be rational and understand when “authorities” are wrong. As they often are…

Yes, I do. That's part of living in a civil society. We're not "blindly" following the rules. We're choosing to follow them for various reasons that make sense to us. Not everything is about science, some of it is about social relationships and the social contract. We all sometimes follow rules that we don't think are scientifically sensible and that some actual heath officials dislike. Probably some rules that you think are super important and well-founded, other people think are stupid. I teach my kids to pick their battles and take a stand when it is truly important, and that in general they should follow the rules unless they have a compelling reason. And I don't want every random person making their own scientific judgments.

If you're doing a thing you know is stupid to make other people feel comfortable, and they're doing a thing they know is stupid to make you feel comfortable, then all you have is a bunch of people doing something they know is stupid and isn't actually making anyone feel comfortable.

I don't think it's stupid. I think it doesn't make a difference but is not harmful (talking about masks at pickup and dropoff) and is not overly burdensome. So it's worth it for the sake of other people's comfort and the spirit of compromise. And the rule that the school makes the rules and doesn't change them without deliberation seems like a good one.

Science tells us all kinds of crazy things that schools don't follow, btw. Are you going to get wound up about all of them?

I don't get wound up about this because I just don't do it. But you're missing that the dynamic you're creating when you condescendingly assume that other parents are scientifically illiterate and you mask for their comfort is that they're doing that for you, too. And then the school looks at you and also assumes that your masking actually says something about your own comfort levels. A

Sorry but some people really do think it matters. Read the IFA listserv and you'll hear from them. I think it's silly, but they definitely exist.

What about all the other science stuff related to education? Are you on your high horse about each and every school policy choice that doesn't quite match? Or just this one?

Can you list some? Masking outside is so embarrassing and outside mainstream norm for its scientific illiteracy, but I would be interested in hearing others.

+! I was wondering the same. "ALL the other science stuff" makes it sounds like there are quite a lot of policies that schools follow that are antithetical to science.

Another example is capping class size at 24, which often ends up at 22 because they don't backfill after October. The science on class size is basically that it doesn't matter very much, so personally I think adding more kids would bring in money without harming performance. But they persist in having small classes and are often asking parents to donate money.

It is reasonably within the purview of schools and school systems to make curricular and class size decisions. That doesn't mean I can't disagree. I do support phonics instruction, and I did that with my kids, and I think other kids should get that as well. But it's not inherently illegitimate for schools to be making the choices they are, and also these are choices lots of other school systems are making, which means you can be using a reasonable set of heuristics to get there, even if the decision you ultimately make is one I would not pick. Outdoor school masking is very different on both counts. Schools have no business making decisions in this area that deviate so much from public health guidelines. And this isn't just a bad choice, it's a practically unique bad choice. If you're one of the only schools doing something stupid, that is worse and reflects more poorly than if you're making the same error as everyone else.

NP. Exactly. Huge difference between a school administration making decisions within their area of expertise (education), even if those are controversial, and school administrators dabbling in public health policy and defying official and widely accepted public health guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ITDS is following people's feelings, not public health guidance and officials, which I noted when I took the survey. I appreciate that they are concerned about parents and teachers feelings, but I kindly also suggested to them to first prioritize public health guidance over parents' gut feelings and sentiment. I don't understand why school leaders are cowering here. At least give us parents the option. We can choose to follow the science or we can choose to follow our emotions.

Also, the argument that there are no indications suggesting poor social and behavioral development outcomes under the age 5 cohort- and beyond- is because those studies have just simply not ever been conducted. If I am wrong here, please share the link!

+1

ITDS family here. This is the root of our frustration. It is a very administration focused school, and there seems to be little concern about how their policies are impacting students or families. In this calendar year (2022) my kids have had just 2 full weeks of school. Most weeks have a Friday or Monday off, or a Wednesday 1/2 day. There was no conversation with families about how the kids or parents are doing. The school talks AT families instead of with families. We've had some really great teachers and some really awful ones. ITDS feels very much a like an internal lottery where your kids experience is dependent on them rolling the dice and getting a good teacher. We can't deal with that unpredictability year after year, particularly with all the socio-emotional challenges from COVID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ITDS is following people's feelings, not public health guidance and officials, which I noted when I took the survey. I appreciate that they are concerned about parents and teachers feelings, but I kindly also suggested to them to first prioritize public health guidance over parents' gut feelings and sentiment. I don't understand why school leaders are cowering here. At least give us parents the option. We can choose to follow the science or we can choose to follow our emotions.

Also, the argument that there are no indications suggesting poor social and behavioral development outcomes under the age 5 cohort- and beyond- is because those studies have just simply not ever been conducted. If I am wrong here, please share the link!

+1

ITDS family here. This is the root of our frustration. It is a very administration focused school, and there seems to be little concern about how their policies are impacting students or families. In this calendar year (2022) my kids have had just 2 full weeks of school. Most weeks have a Friday or Monday off, or a Wednesday 1/2 day. There was no conversation with families about how the kids or parents are doing. The school talks AT families instead of with families. We've had some really great teachers and some really awful ones. ITDS feels very much a like an internal lottery where your kids experience is dependent on them rolling the dice and getting a good teacher. We can't deal with that unpredictability year after year, particularly with all the socio-emotional challenges from COVID.

Totally. The administration does a poll when they want to, and then announces policies. There's no venue for back and forth dialogue whatsoever. The parents association is weak and never pushes for any change unless things get really really awful. It's take it or leave it, and they'll tell you that explicitly.

And +1 to the some good teachers some meh to. I have seen people be thrilled w ITS until they got someone less good and their eyes were opened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Another example is capping class size at 24, which often ends up at 22 because they don't backfill after October. The science on class size is basically that it doesn't matter very much, so personally I think adding more kids would bring in money without harming performance. But they persist in having small classes and are often asking parents to donate money.

Hmmm. This is a pretty bad example since class size is one of the few things rigorous research has linked with student achievement.

Ummm. Incorrect. FFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ITDS is following people's feelings, not public health guidance and officials, which I noted when I took the survey. I appreciate that they are concerned about parents and teachers feelings, but I kindly also suggested to them to first prioritize public health guidance over parents' gut feelings and sentiment. I don't understand why school leaders are cowering here. At least give us parents the option. We can choose to follow the science or we can choose to follow our emotions.

Also, the argument that there are no indications suggesting poor social and behavioral development outcomes under the age 5 cohort- and beyond- is because those studies have just simply not ever been conducted. If I am wrong here, please share the link!

+1

ITDS family here. This is the root of our frustration. It is a very administration focused school, and there seems to be little concern about how their policies are impacting students or families. In this calendar year (2022) my kids have had just 2 full weeks of school. Most weeks have a Friday or Monday off, or a Wednesday 1/2 day. There was no conversation with families about how the kids or parents are doing. The school talks AT families instead of with families. We've had some really great teachers and some really awful ones. ITDS feels very much a like an internal lottery where your kids experience is dependent on them rolling the dice and getting a good teacher. We can't deal with that unpredictability year after year, particularly with all the socio-emotional challenges from COVID.

Totally. The administration does a poll when they want to, and then announces policies. There's no venue for back and forth dialogue whatsoever. The parents association is weak and never pushes for any change unless things get really really awful. It's take it or leave it, and they'll tell you that explicitly.

And +1 to the some good teachers some meh to. I have seen people be thrilled w ITS until they got someone less good and their eyes were opened.

One more thing, in March 2021 after a majority of the teachers had been vaccinated, the school was still refusing to open. Some of the parents with extensive public health, epidemiology and pediatric expertise spoke in favor of reopening (backed by science!) and the administration didn't listen at all.

I get that they are worried about teachers leaving. It's a real concern, but I don't get the impression that they care about kids falling behind. Maybe they do care, but as a parent I can say that I have not seen it. The communication is sparse and is a very "take it or leave it" kind of mentality. The damage being done to these kids (not from masks, but from everything these past 2 years) is real, and it feels like ITDS administrators are like "meh, what do you want us to do about it?" It's so disheartening and sad.