Murder at Lululemon in Bethesda

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't employers check references anymore? She obviously can't hold down a job.

And many employers also do a credit check, which would have uncovered her eviction/monetary issues.

Most retailers hiring for part time sales positions don't do credit checks. I worked part time at a chain clothing store in Dupont and they didn't check my references or really look at my application beyond the fact that I had worked at said retail chain in high school. I was hired after a five minute interview and a two of my friends were hired without interviews after I referred them. I suspect they don't run the checks because turnover is pretty high in these positions. It's pretty easy to lie about past retail experiences and use fake references. We had a situation where money went missing every time a certain employee worked a shift, but without seeing her take money they couldn't do anything. Instead of firing her they basically had to schedule her so that she never worked the registers (even though the register logs every transaction we do with a pin number and associate number). The money magically stopped disappearing once they did this.

[Anonymous]

I am so sorry for those who are going through horrible times with a sibling. I am also, so I know what it is like. In fact, we have helped most of our families emotionally and financially and it is indeed extremely draining. No one knows what we go through, as it is a difficult discussion to raise, and it is no one's business. Frankly, most of our friends are being carried by their families, so it is the exact opposite! The latter has absolutely NO idea how lucky they are, which is truly a damn shame.

I agree that it is mostly nature. Some are not born with the gumption or whatever it takes to get from point A to point B successfully. I also hope my kids make it through without a hitch. Unfortunately, it is that simple. As for the murderer, I just don't know.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone heard more about:

(1) Did they in fact leave the store and come back or never leave at all?

(2) Norwood's court appearance today?

(3) why would she stay in the store?

[Anonymous]

After sitting through the Swann St. case, I am anxious about the outcome of this case. Of course the men involved in that case had a lot of money and could afford the best lawyers. However, after listening to the jugde more or less say that while she knew the men committed the crime and  that she did not buy their story about the intruder, she could not find them guilty because the state could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt (I am no lawyer but apparently this requires a 99% certainty) that a crime was committed by the accused men. I was gutted by the findings in that case and lost confidence that the justice system always works. As the judge said in the Swann St. case, the justice system is designed to prevent innocent people from being wrongly convicted - it is better that 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man be wrongly convicted- and while  I understood her dilemma, it was very painful to swallow. I felt sick as a saw those men strut cockily from that courtroom having literally gotten away with the murder of an innocent man while the widow was left devastated. I really hope the same thing does not happen in this case.

[Anonymous]

She hasn't been in court today. I think I heard it would be late in the afternoon.

Here is the latest -
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2314742

Not much new, but she worked at the Georgetown store before Bethesda, not Tysons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She hasn't been in court today. I think I heard it would be late in the afternoon.

Here is the latest -
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2314742

Not much new, but she worked at the Georgetown store before Bethesda, not Tysons.

I smell a civil suit against Lululemon. Transferred because she was suspected of stealing??she should have been fired!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She may be a victim of mental illness but that would be it. It is still unfathomable to me that anyone could committ a murder like that. And put so much thought into covering it up! Had she not said they were raped, not moved the car, not stuck on a size 14 pair of shoes and walked through the blood with them and then not gotten rid of them..........she may have gotten away with it! Hard to know but never the less it is clearly the work of a person that has been suffering with undiagnosed mental illness. Unfortunately there are many people walking around in the world with the same problem. Hopefully it is a LOW percentage that actually get to the place where they would commit a murder.

So she became angry, killed a coworker, and tried to cover it up...that's mental illness? Complete BS!

If that is your standard then nobody would be in prison. She's an animal and deserves to be locked away in a cage.

[Anonymous]

I am the pp and I also wanted to add that I also HAD a brother who went completely off the rails -ultimately leading to his death. There were 3 of us raised in a loving, stable curch attending, private school, home. Two of us are leading normal  lives but my brother was a different matter altogether. Like some of the pps my parents threw good money after bad in an attempt to help him straighten up his life. I'll never forget my parents' words when they found out he had died. My mom's first words were  - "what happened to all my prayers?" and my dad looked at me with the utmost despair and said "so this is how it has ended?". There is  nothing they would not have done for him. 
To all those saying the parents had/have a part to play, I must raise a strong objection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think every parent, who is not delusional, and who has kids that are older than 2 knows that we don't control the way they turn out. We influence but we do not control. I have deep sympathy for Brittany's family as well as Jayna's. Also, anyone who has a mentally ill family member understands that parents do not have any control at all over certain things. Normal people do not just snap and kill their bosses. This was not the act of a sane woman.

I agree with this. My younger brother is a total mess and causes my parents so much distress. He was normal until he was about 27 and then his life fell apart. He had a great job, had grad school paid for, but used the company credit card to charge non company related items and was fired. He is now 33 and lives in my parent's basement. He's been there for over a year. He steals from my parents (money, checks, credit cards,) lies, and has an awful temper. He used to have a close circle of friends and now has alienated all of them because I am sure he's stolen or borrowed money from them and then never pays them back.

My parents have sought therapy and the therapist has urged them to kick him out, but my mom won't let my dad do it. We just found out my mom has terminal cancer. He was "nice" to her for about three days after we found out the cancer was back and then started in on her again when she wouldn't give him money. I just want to throttle him, for lack of a better word. I think he's bipolar or has some other kind of mental illness. Either that or he is on drugs. We cannot force him to go and see anyone because of his age. My husband and I are going to propose paying for an apt. for six months under the condition that he goes to a therapist to get evaluated and then for regular visits and actively pursues getting a job. He's cost my parents about $150,000.00 over the last six years between credit card debts, living expenses, etc. He has such bad credit that he cannot even open a bank account.

It breaks my heart to think about all the stress my mom is under with her illness and with worrying about him.

I've digressed somewhat, but my point is that the parents should not be blamed. My brother grew up in a stable home with two loving parents who gave him everything. He went to top private schools, a great college, and had emotional and financial support all his life. Our parents never missed a game, a play, or anything important in our lives. We ate meals together every night growing up and were very close to our extended family. My parents sacrificed a lot for us and I am so grateful to them for everything. He says that they don't support him and that they are the ones with the problem.

I turned out fine (I think,) on the other hand. I have two healthy children, a great marriage, a job I like, a close circle of friends, and we are emotionally and financially stable.

I am so sorry; I have an irrational fear of one of my beautiful children turning into the runaway train you describe. Especially if as a result of drug or mental illness. I can't imagine the anguish. My prayers for you and your beautiful family--including your brother who sounds like he needs serious help and doesn't even realize it.

I hate to say this, but your fear is not irrational. My brother too is a total mess. We are 3 kids in our family, raised the same way and my brother is a DISASTER. My parents have spent thousands and thousands on thearapy. He is now 28 and completely cut off, unlike this PP. My brothers verbal abuse of our mother makes everyone LIVID. My parents did everything they could, my brother was just born rotten. Sometimes it happens.

I too worry about one of my children who is little, but seems to have huge anger issues. We are doing our best, but kids are products of our parenting to a certain point, but they are individuals none the less. I think nature trumps nurture. It is like dieting.....75% nature, 25% nurture. We as parents can only do our best, the rest is out of our control.

PP, do you think your brother suffers from mental illness or do you think it's his nature?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think every parent, who is not delusional, and who has kids that are older than 2 knows that we don't control the way they turn out. We influence but we do not control. I have deep sympathy for Brittany's family as well as Jayna's. Also, anyone who has a mentally ill family member understands that parents do not have any control at all over certain things. Normal people do not just snap and kill their bosses. This was not the act of a sane woman.

I agree with this. My younger brother is a total mess and causes my parents so much distress. He was normal until he was about 27 and then his life fell apart. He had a great job, had grad school paid for, but used the company credit card to charge non company related items and was fired. He is now 33 and lives in my parent's basement. He's been there for over a year. He steals from my parents (money, checks, credit cards,) lies, and has an awful temper. He used to have a close circle of friends and now has alienated all of them because I am sure he's stolen or borrowed money from them and then never pays them back.

My parents have sought therapy and the therapist has urged them to kick him out, but my mom won't let my dad do it. We just found out my mom has terminal cancer. He was "nice" to her for about three days after we found out the cancer was back and then started in on her again when she wouldn't give him money. I just want to throttle him, for lack of a better word. I think he's bipolar or has some other kind of mental illness. Either that or he is on drugs. We cannot force him to go and see anyone because of his age. My husband and I are going to propose paying for an apt. for six months under the condition that he goes to a therapist to get evaluated and then for regular visits and actively pursues getting a job. He's cost my parents about $150,000.00 over the last six years between credit card debts, living expenses, etc. He has such bad credit that he cannot even open a bank account.

It breaks my heart to think about all the stress my mom is under with her illness and with worrying about him.

I've digressed somewhat, but my point is that the parents should not be blamed. My brother grew up in a stable home with two loving parents who gave him everything. He went to top private schools, a great college, and had emotional and financial support all his life. Our parents never missed a game, a play, or anything important in our lives. We ate meals together every night growing up and were very close to our extended family. My parents sacrificed a lot for us and I am so grateful to them for everything. He says that they don't support him and that they are the ones with the problem.

I turned out fine (I think,) on the other hand. I have two healthy children, a great marriage, a job I like, a close circle of friends, and we are emotionally and financially stable.

I am the PP you quoted and it sounds like we almost have the same brother except my brother is a lawyer so he doesn't have to steal. He only works when he really needs to. My mom died of cancer and he made the end of her life brutal. My poor dad is 77 and is still trying to take care of him but all he does is abuse my dad emotionally. My brother is in his 40's and has never lived away from my dad except when he was in law school. I guess those of us who have deeply disturbed family members are able to sympathize with Brittany's family sincerely. It makes me sad that her parents will have to deal with the shame and guilt in addition to the loss of heir child for whom they probably had very high hopes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She hasn't been in court today. I think I heard it would be late in the afternoon.

Here is the latest -
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2314742

Not much new, but she worked at the Georgetown store before Bethesda, not Tysons.

I smell a civil suit against Lululemon. Transferred because she was suspected of stealing??she should have been fired!!

I agree...crazy! If she was suspected of stealing, she should have been fired. Not that anyone could have predicted what she was capable of, but still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After sitting through the Swann St. case, I am anxious about the outcome of this case. Of course the men involved in that case had a lot of money and could afford the best lawyers. However, after listening to the jugde more or less say that while she knew the men committed the crime and  that she did not buy their story about the intruder, she could not find them guilty because the state could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt (I am no lawyer but apparently this requires a 99% certainty) that a crime was committed by the accused men. I was gutted by the findings in that case and lost confidence that the justice system always works. As the judge said in the Swann St. case, the justice system is designed to prevent innocent people from being wrongly convicted - it is better that 10 guilty men go free than one innocent man be wrongly convicted- and while  I understood her dilemma, it was very painful to swallow. I felt sick as a saw those men strut cockily from that courtroom having literally gotten away with the murder of an innocent man while the widow was left devastated. I really hope the same thing does not happen in this case.

I thought those guys were only charged with obstruction of justice, not murder. I believe there's a civil case pending, right? They were never charged with murder, and still could be. Too bad the police work in that case was shoddy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think every parent, who is not delusional, and who has kids that are older than 2 knows that we don't control the way they turn out. We influence but we do not control. I have deep sympathy for Brittany's family as well as Jayna's. Also, anyone who has a mentally ill family member understands that parents do not have any control at all over certain things. Normal people do not just snap and kill their bosses. This was not the act of a sane woman.

I agree with this. My younger brother is a total mess and causes my parents so much distress. He was normal until he was about 27 and then his life fell apart. He had a great job, had grad school paid for, but used the company credit card to charge non company related items and was fired. He is now 33 and lives in my parent's basement. He's been there for over a year. He steals from my parents (money, checks, credit cards,) lies, and has an awful temper. He used to have a close circle of friends and now has alienated all of them because I am sure he's stolen or borrowed money from them and then never pays them back.

My parents have sought therapy and the therapist has urged them to kick him out, but my mom won't let my dad do it. We just found out my mom has terminal cancer. He was "nice" to her for about three days after we found out the cancer was back and then started in on her again when she wouldn't give him money. I just want to throttle him, for lack of a better word. I think he's bipolar or has some other kind of mental illness. Either that or he is on drugs. We cannot force him to go and see anyone because of his age. My husband and I are going to propose paying for an apt. for six months under the condition that he goes to a therapist to get evaluated and then for regular visits and actively pursues getting a job. He's cost my parents about $150,000.00 over the last six years between credit card debts, living expenses, etc. He has such bad credit that he cannot even open a bank account.

It breaks my heart to think about all the stress my mom is under with her illness and with worrying about him.

I've digressed somewhat, but my point is that the parents should not be blamed. My brother grew up in a stable home with two loving parents who gave him everything. He went to top private schools, a great college, and had emotional and financial support all his life. Our parents never missed a game, a play, or anything important in our lives. We ate meals together every night growing up and were very close to our extended family. My parents sacrificed a lot for us and I am so grateful to them for everything. He says that they don't support him and that they are the ones with the problem.

I turned out fine (I think,) on the other hand. I have two healthy children, a great marriage, a job I like, a close circle of friends, and we are emotionally and financially stable.

I am so sorry; I have an irrational fear of one of my beautiful children turning into the runaway train you describe. Especially if as a result of drug or mental illness. I can't imagine the anguish. My prayers for you and your beautiful family--including your brother who sounds like he needs serious help and doesn't even realize it.

I hate to say this, but your fear is not irrational. My brother too is a total mess. We are 3 kids in our family, raised the same way and my brother is a DISASTER. My parents have spent thousands and thousands on thearapy. He is now 28 and completely cut off, unlike this PP. My brothers verbal abuse of our mother makes everyone LIVID. My parents did everything they could, my brother was just born rotten. Sometimes it happens.

I too worry about one of my children who is little, but seems to have huge anger issues. We are doing our best, but kids are products of our parenting to a certain point, but they are individuals none the less. I think nature trumps nurture. It is like dieting.....75% nature, 25% nurture. We as parents can only do our best, the rest is out of our control.

PP, do you think your brother suffers from mental illness or do you think it's his nature?

He does suffer from terrible anxiety, but so does my sister, so I do not think the anxiety causes his bad choices and abusive nature. Could we consider extreme selfishenss a mental illness? For him EVERYTHING is about him. He is ALWAYS the victim even in the face of strong evidence otherwise. He acts abusive because "someone made him go off".

I will say that he was a high needs child, needing more than my sister and I. And my mom gave him that extra attention that he always demanded. He was what I would consider a petulant child, and unfortunatly he is still a petulant child, except he is a grown up. When you never take responsiblity for your actions or your life, it is going to mean a pretty rough time in life. Is this a mentall illness? I'm not sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think every parent, who is not delusional, and who has kids that are older than 2 knows that we don't control the way they turn out. We influence but we do not control. I have deep sympathy for Brittany's family as well as Jayna's. Also, anyone who has a mentally ill family member understands that parents do not have any control at all over certain things. Normal people do not just snap and kill their bosses. This was not the act of a sane woman.

I agree with this. My younger brother is a total mess and causes my parents so much distress. He was normal until he was about 27 and then his life fell apart. He had a great job, had grad school paid for, but used the company credit card to charge non company related items and was fired. He is now 33 and lives in my parent's basement. He's been there for over a year. He steals from my parents (money, checks, credit cards,) lies, and has an awful temper. He used to have a close circle of friends and now has alienated all of them because I am sure he's stolen or borrowed money from them and then never pays them back.

My parents have sought therapy and the therapist has urged them to kick him out, but my mom won't let my dad do it. We just found out my mom has terminal cancer. He was "nice" to her for about three days after we found out the cancer was back and then started in on her again when she wouldn't give him money. I just want to throttle him, for lack of a better word. I think he's bipolar or has some other kind of mental illness. Either that or he is on drugs. We cannot force him to go and see anyone because of his age. My husband and I are going to propose paying for an apt. for six months under the condition that he goes to a therapist to get evaluated and then for regular visits and actively pursues getting a job. He's cost my parents about $150,000.00 over the last six years between credit card debts, living expenses, etc. He has such bad credit that he cannot even open a bank account.

It breaks my heart to think about all the stress my mom is under with her illness and with worrying about him.

I've digressed somewhat, but my point is that the parents should not be blamed. My brother grew up in a stable home with two loving parents who gave him everything. He went to top private schools, a great college, and had emotional and financial support all his life. Our parents never missed a game, a play, or anything important in our lives. We ate meals together every night growing up and were very close to our extended family. My parents sacrificed a lot for us and I am so grateful to them for everything. He says that they don't support him and that they are the ones with the problem.

I turned out fine (I think,) on the other hand. I have two healthy children, a great marriage, a job I like, a close circle of friends, and we are emotionally and financially stable.

I am so sorry; I have an irrational fear of one of my beautiful children turning into the runaway train you describe. Especially if as a result of drug or mental illness. I can't imagine the anguish. My prayers for you and your beautiful family--including your brother who sounds like he needs serious help and doesn't even realize it.

I hate to say this, but your fear is not irrational. My brother too is a total mess. We are 3 kids in our family, raised the same way and my brother is a DISASTER. My parents have spent thousands and thousands on thearapy. He is now 28 and completely cut off, unlike this PP. My brothers verbal abuse of our mother makes everyone LIVID. My parents did everything they could, my brother was just born rotten. Sometimes it happens.

I too worry about one of my children who is little, but seems to have huge anger issues. We are doing our best, but kids are products of our parenting to a certain point, but they are individuals none the less. I think nature trumps nurture. It is like dieting.....75% nature, 25% nurture. We as parents can only do our best, the rest is out of our control.

PP, sorry for the off-topic, but if you google systemic or constellation therapy and Bert Hellinger you will find a controversial theory about children who unconsciously assume a role of a distant or even deceased relative that was somehow excluded from the family. Not saying it's your case at all, but it's an interesting take.

[Anonymous]

Mental illness can mean a lot of things. I am one of the many PPs with a deeply disturbed brother. Mental illness does not necessarily mean that you are "crazy" or that you are not aware of what you are doing. My brother suffers from severe depression, impulse control problems, ADHD, substance abuse issues (all prescribed by his doctor), lack of empathy, and he is frequently suicidal. Sometimes his thoughts seem severely disorganized in that one statement does not lead to another, they are just random. I believe he will kill himself one day and it is certainly possible that he could one day snap and hurt someone else. So I would say that yes, he is mentally ill but if he did do something wrong, he could still be held responsible in court. The fact that he functions quite well as an attorney when he is emotionally able to go to work proves that he would be held responsible if he did something wrong. On the other hand, my sister is diagnosed bipolar and she is well treated and a great mom with a good career so who is the mentally ill one? I would say it is my brother.