Taylor Swift is awful (and her music isn't even very good)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

.

You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.

When I was a teenager, when I'd disagree with my dad, who was and is a physically and emotionally abusive narcissist, he'd do this thing when he'd lost an argument where he'd get really calm and condescending.

"Of course, you can dress however you'd like, dear. You'll look like a pathetic little whore, but you can of course decide what clothes to put on your body."

"You are of course entitled to your opinion. You sound like an ignorant, idiot bleeding heart liberal, but it's a free country."

I wonder why I thought of that just now.

comparing an anon poster writing an offhand one line comment to another anon poster....is NOT the same as the parent emotionally abusing a teen. Like at all. That said, your dad sucks and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The PP's comment ("You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.") is an abusive technique. Not saying that PP is an abuser, at all. But this is a common rhetorical tool that is abusive, where you mask insults and ad hominem ("sad as hell" and "pathetic") under a veneer of not caring at all, or being detached and reasonable. The PP actually cares deeply about the subject or they wouldn't be posting. But rather than saying "this is important to me and here are the reasons why I think you are wrong," she is pretending not to care at all but then tossing very rude and hurtful comments in as facts.

People who do this instinctually, even in a silly conversation about Taylor Swift, should be aware it's an abusive tactic. If you want to engage with people on an issue, do so directly and respectfully. Pretending not to care one way or another while issuing low-blow attacks is not the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

Oh, and I forgot PP is also a “nasty human being.” Why? Because she has different musical tastes than you? And has expressed them?

No, because people with a different opinion are being called clowns, idiots, dense, etc. That's objectively nasty. Sorry if the truth hurts.

When someone posts an asinine comment or response, they are worthy of being called those names.

Nobody’s posts are asinine. They are expressing different opinions. And yours are opinions, too, not the facts you think they are. And for you to think name calling is appropriate, especially in this context, is really sad actually. I’m going to leave the thread because, while it was entertaining initially, now I just feel sorry for you. I pity you. Someone hurt you and I feel bad for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some defenders in this thread and others seem like parents who have trouble separating criticism of Taylor Swift with their child's identifying so strongly with her.

This. What's funny is that one of the things I find most annoying about Taylor Swift is the degree to which she encourages her fans to have a para-social relationship with her, to personally identify with her and make her their avatar. I find it creepy and borderline cult-like (https://omny.fm/shows/sounds-like-a-cult/the-cult-of-taylor-swift) and I'd probably feel less of a need to speak up about how I think her music is pretty mediocre and that she is highly over-rated as an artist were in not for this dynamic. It shuts down all dissent and labels anyone who doesn't agree that Swift is amazing a "hater."

That's why a backlash against Swift exists. There's a place for musicians like Swift and there's nothing wrong with enjoying some catchy, light pop music. But Swift's fans aren't satisfied to simply have an artist they enjoy and consumer her music. They need everyone else to agree that she is good, they need all of her critics to admit they are wrong and eat their words, they need Swift to accomplish complete and total domination of people's musical taste and that's... weird.

Which is why I find myself returning to this thread. I think Taylor Swift is a mediocre talent with an uncanny knack for marketing. And not a single thing anyone has said on this thread in defense of her has changed my mind on those points. Rather, the obsessive need to put down her critics as "pathetic" and "sad" and the obvious personal offense her fans take at any criticism of her tends to back up my existing opinion.

I think we should drink every time someone uses the phrase "para social relationship" on this thread. I am so, so tired of that phrase. I get that we all discovered it recently and we think it makes us sound informed, but it really doesn't. Para-social is the new declaring everyone and everything a "narcissist!"

The term "parasocial" was invented in the 1950s but recently became more popularized specifically because of the relationships that celebrities have developed with their fans via social media. People are talking about it more today because these relationships are far more common than they used to be, and social media interaction seems to intensify parasocial relationships more than ever before. Previously people developed parasocial relationships by going to concerts or fan events, reading interviews or biographies, etc. Now you log onto Instagram or TikTok and not only see these celebrities at home, in their down time, with friends and family, but sometimes you can interact with them directly via comments and likes.

Swift has harnessed and encouraged these parasocial relationships to an extreme degree, to great effect (and $$$$$ for her). So of course it's going to come up in a conversation about her. Saying you can't say "parasocial" in a conversation about Taylor Swift is like telling people not to mention the word autofiction in discussing Truman Capote's In Cold Blood. Even if you don't use the term, it will be part of the conversation because it's a perfect example of it.

But if you want to turn it into a drinking game, that could be fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

Oh, and I forgot PP is also a “nasty human being.” Why? Because she has different musical tastes than you? And has expressed them?

No, because people with a different opinion are being called clowns, idiots, dense, etc. That's objectively nasty. Sorry if the truth hurts.

When someone posts an asinine comment or response, they are worthy of being called those names.

Nobody’s posts are asinine. They are expressing different opinions. And yours are opinions, too, not the facts you think they are. And for you to think name calling is appropriate, especially in this context, is really sad actually. I’m going to leave the thread because, while it was entertaining initially, now I just feel sorry for you. I pity you. Someone hurt you and I feel bad for you.

Save your pompous, self aggrandizing comment for yourself.
Many posts are asinine.
Sorry if some responses hurt your feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

Oh, and I forgot PP is also a “nasty human being.” Why? Because she has different musical tastes than you? And has expressed them?

No, because people with a different opinion are being called clowns, idiots, dense, etc. That's objectively nasty. Sorry if the truth hurts.

When someone posts an asinine comment or response, they are worthy of being called those names.

Nobody’s posts are asinine. They are expressing different opinions. And yours are opinions, too, not the facts you think they are. And for you to think name calling is appropriate, especially in this context, is really sad actually. I’m going to leave the thread because, while it was entertaining initially, now I just feel sorry for you. I pity you. Someone hurt you and I feel bad for you.

I got a very different read about the poster that you are illogically certain someone hurt. For me, she sounds highly educated, cultured and intelligent, not wounded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

Oh, and I forgot PP is also a “nasty human being.” Why? Because she has different musical tastes than you? And has expressed them?

No, because people with a different opinion are being called clowns, idiots, dense, etc. That's objectively nasty. Sorry if the truth hurts.

When someone posts an asinine comment or response, they are worthy of being called those names.

Nobody’s posts are asinine. They are expressing different opinions. And yours are opinions, too, not the facts you think they are. And for you to think name calling is appropriate, especially in this context, is really sad actually. I’m going to leave the thread because, while it was entertaining initially, now I just feel sorry for you. I pity you. Someone hurt you and I feel bad for you.

Save your pompous, self aggrandizing comment for yourself.
Many posts are asinine.
Sorry if some responses hurt your feelings.

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

.

You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.

When I was a teenager, when I'd disagree with my dad, who was and is a physically and emotionally abusive narcissist, he'd do this thing when he'd lost an argument where he'd get really calm and condescending.

"Of course, you can dress however you'd like, dear. You'll look like a pathetic little whore, but you can of course decide what clothes to put on your body."

"You are of course entitled to your opinion. You sound like an ignorant, idiot bleeding heart liberal, but it's a free country."

I wonder why I thought of that just now.

comparing an anon poster writing an offhand one line comment to another anon poster....is NOT the same as the parent emotionally abusing a teen. Like at all. That said, your dad sucks and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The PP's comment ("You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.") is an abusive technique. Not saying that PP is an abuser, at all. But this is a common rhetorical tool that is abusive, where you mask insults and ad hominem ("sad as hell" and "pathetic") under a veneer of not caring at all, or being detached and reasonable. The PP actually cares deeply about the subject or they wouldn't be posting. But rather than saying "this is important to me and here are the reasons why I think you are wrong," she is pretending not to care at all but then tossing very rude and hurtful comments in as facts.

People who do this instinctually, even in a silly conversation about Taylor Swift, should be aware it's an abusive tactic. If you want to engage with people on an issue, do so directly and respectfully. Pretending not to care one way or another while issuing low-blow attacks is not the way.

You know what is also an abusive technique? Gaslighting. So quit telling people they are wrong for being a fan of someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

.

You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.

When I was a teenager, when I'd disagree with my dad, who was and is a physically and emotionally abusive narcissist, he'd do this thing when he'd lost an argument where he'd get really calm and condescending.

"Of course, you can dress however you'd like, dear. You'll look like a pathetic little whore, but you can of course decide what clothes to put on your body."

"You are of course entitled to your opinion. You sound like an ignorant, idiot bleeding heart liberal, but it's a free country."

I wonder why I thought of that just now.

comparing an anon poster writing an offhand one line comment to another anon poster....is NOT the same as the parent emotionally abusing a teen. Like at all. That said, your dad sucks and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The PP's comment ("You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.") is an abusive technique. Not saying that PP is an abuser, at all. But this is a common rhetorical tool that is abusive, where you mask insults and ad hominem ("sad as hell" and "pathetic") under a veneer of not caring at all, or being detached and reasonable. The PP actually cares deeply about the subject or they wouldn't be posting. But rather than saying "this is important to me and here are the reasons why I think you are wrong," she is pretending not to care at all but then tossing very rude and hurtful comments in as facts.

People who do this instinctually, even in a silly conversation about Taylor Swift, should be aware it's an abusive tactic. If you want to engage with people on an issue, do so directly and respectfully. Pretending not to care one way or another while issuing low-blow attacks is not the way.

You know what is also an abusive technique? Gaslighting. So quit telling people they are wrong for being a fan of someone.

That poster is angry at ... everyone who doesn't agree with her. Can you imagine meeting *that* in person? Holy crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

.

You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.

When I was a teenager, when I'd disagree with my dad, who was and is a physically and emotionally abusive narcissist, he'd do this thing when he'd lost an argument where he'd get really calm and condescending.

"Of course, you can dress however you'd like, dear. You'll look like a pathetic little whore, but you can of course decide what clothes to put on your body."

"You are of course entitled to your opinion. You sound like an ignorant, idiot bleeding heart liberal, but it's a free country."

I wonder why I thought of that just now.

comparing an anon poster writing an offhand one line comment to another anon poster....is NOT the same as the parent emotionally abusing a teen. Like at all. That said, your dad sucks and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The PP's comment ("You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.") is an abusive technique. Not saying that PP is an abuser, at all. But this is a common rhetorical tool that is abusive, where you mask insults and ad hominem ("sad as hell" and "pathetic") under a veneer of not caring at all, or being detached and reasonable. The PP actually cares deeply about the subject or they wouldn't be posting. But rather than saying "this is important to me and here are the reasons why I think you are wrong," she is pretending not to care at all but then tossing very rude and hurtful comments in as facts.

People who do this instinctually, even in a silly conversation about Taylor Swift, should be aware it's an abusive tactic. If you want to engage with people on an issue, do so directly and respectfully. Pretending not to care one way or another while issuing low-blow attacks is not the way.

You know what is also an abusive technique? Gaslighting. So quit telling people they are wrong for being a fan of someone.

Where has anyone said you are "wrong" for being a fan of someone? The point is just that some of us are not fans.

If you are looking for somewhere where your Taylor Swift fandom will be rewarded and celebrated, a quick Google search revealed the following:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/
https://newtaylorconnect.freeforums.net/forum
https://taylor.boards.net

There is no shortage of Taylor Swift echo chambers out there. Go forth! Enjoy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

.

You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.

When I was a teenager, when I'd disagree with my dad, who was and is a physically and emotionally abusive narcissist, he'd do this thing when he'd lost an argument where he'd get really calm and condescending.

"Of course, you can dress however you'd like, dear. You'll look like a pathetic little whore, but you can of course decide what clothes to put on your body."

"You are of course entitled to your opinion. You sound like an ignorant, idiot bleeding heart liberal, but it's a free country."

I wonder why I thought of that just now.

comparing an anon poster writing an offhand one line comment to another anon poster....is NOT the same as the parent emotionally abusing a teen. Like at all. That said, your dad sucks and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The PP's comment ("You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.") is an abusive technique. Not saying that PP is an abuser, at all. But this is a common rhetorical tool that is abusive, where you mask insults and ad hominem ("sad as hell" and "pathetic") under a veneer of not caring at all, or being detached and reasonable. The PP actually cares deeply about the subject or they wouldn't be posting. But rather than saying "this is important to me and here are the reasons why I think you are wrong," she is pretending not to care at all but then tossing very rude and hurtful comments in as facts.

People who do this instinctually, even in a silly conversation about Taylor Swift, should be aware it's an abusive tactic. If you want to engage with people on an issue, do so directly and respectfully. Pretending not to care one way or another while issuing low-blow attacks is not the way.

You know what is also an abusive technique? Gaslighting. So quit telling people they are wrong for being a fan of someone.

Gaslighting? I don’t think you understand what that term means. It means manipulating someone into questioning his or her sanity. It does not mean telling someone that their preference for a celebrity is wrong.

That being said, no one in this thread has told anyone that they are wrong for being a fan. The only thing posters are doing on a thread titled “Taylor Swift is awful (and her music isn’t very good),” is discussing the reasons they think she’s a mediocre singer, lyricist and performer.

Voicing their opinions on her abilities is not gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

I am not the same poster. Believe it or not, there are lots of people who quietly can’t stand Taylor. That being said, being specific and detailed in explaining why you don’t like Taylor Swift’s is not “begging people to agree with you.”

Take your own advice and “move on,” if you are so bothered by comprehensive critiques of her music.

Dp nothing new is going to be said by the haters
So the thread should end. They don't like her and cannot believe that she is wildly sucessfull. They think their opinion matters more than the millions of fans.

We should stop responding because we know the truth and their mild tantrum won't change the facts.

This thread should end “because nothing new is going to be said?”

What’s it to you if the “haters” go back and forth stating the same things over and over? It’s called freedom of expression and last I heard, it was legal to criticize a “wildly sucessfull [sic]” artist.

If reading these comments bothers you, move along and stop responding!

You don't get to tell me how to respond. And you are haters. Why the quotes?

DP. You all seem to hate us for not liking Taylor Swift. Doesn't that make you haters too?

The difference is this:

Person A: "DD just got a new Mary Johnson record for christmas. I'm psyched - I love MJ!"

Person B: "Really? I am not a fan. A few of my friends tried to get me into her but I don't get it."

Person A: "Oh man. LOVE her. So who are your faves?"

And the conversation goes on for a few minutes ending music discussions at some point and veering into something else.

Vs:

Person A: "DD just got a new Mary Johnson record for christmas. I'm psyched - I love MJ!"

Person B: "Really? I'm not a fan. She is ugly, and her eggs are drying up. She can't write or sing. You are going to be embarrassed for liking her in 10 years."

Person A: "Hahahah.....oh wow look at the time...." leaves unhinged conversation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

.

You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.

When I was a teenager, when I'd disagree with my dad, who was and is a physically and emotionally abusive narcissist, he'd do this thing when he'd lost an argument where he'd get really calm and condescending.

"Of course, you can dress however you'd like, dear. You'll look like a pathetic little whore, but you can of course decide what clothes to put on your body."

"You are of course entitled to your opinion. You sound like an ignorant, idiot bleeding heart liberal, but it's a free country."

I wonder why I thought of that just now.

comparing an anon poster writing an offhand one line comment to another anon poster....is NOT the same as the parent emotionally abusing a teen. Like at all. That said, your dad sucks and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The PP's comment ("You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.") is an abusive technique. Not saying that PP is an abuser, at all. But this is a common rhetorical tool that is abusive, where you mask insults and ad hominem ("sad as hell" and "pathetic") under a veneer of not caring at all, or being detached and reasonable. The PP actually cares deeply about the subject or they wouldn't be posting. But rather than saying "this is important to me and here are the reasons why I think you are wrong," she is pretending not to care at all but then tossing very rude and hurtful comments in as facts.

People who do this instinctually, even in a silly conversation about Taylor Swift, should be aware it's an abusive tactic. If you want to engage with people on an issue, do so directly and respectfully. Pretending not to care one way or another while issuing low-blow attacks is not the way.

You know what is also an abusive technique? Gaslighting. So quit telling people they are wrong for being a fan of someone.

Where has anyone said you are "wrong" for being a fan of someone? The point is just that some of us are not fans.

If you are looking for somewhere where your Taylor Swift fandom will be rewarded and celebrated, a quick Google search revealed the following:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/
https://newtaylorconnect.freeforums.net/forum
https://taylor.boards.net

There is no shortage of Taylor Swift echo chambers out there. Go forth! Enjoy!

Exactly, there’s no shortage of places to praise Taylor on the internet. This unprecedented and persistent attempt to quiet any adverse opinion on a pop star is making me think that some of these posters are actually lowly interns for Taylor’s PR team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

.

You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.

When I was a teenager, when I'd disagree with my dad, who was and is a physically and emotionally abusive narcissist, he'd do this thing when he'd lost an argument where he'd get really calm and condescending.

"Of course, you can dress however you'd like, dear. You'll look like a pathetic little whore, but you can of course decide what clothes to put on your body."

"You are of course entitled to your opinion. You sound like an ignorant, idiot bleeding heart liberal, but it's a free country."

I wonder why I thought of that just now.

comparing an anon poster writing an offhand one line comment to another anon poster....is NOT the same as the parent emotionally abusing a teen. Like at all. That said, your dad sucks and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The PP's comment ("You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.") is an abusive technique. Not saying that PP is an abuser, at all. But this is a common rhetorical tool that is abusive, where you mask insults and ad hominem ("sad as hell" and "pathetic") under a veneer of not caring at all, or being detached and reasonable. The PP actually cares deeply about the subject or they wouldn't be posting. But rather than saying "this is important to me and here are the reasons why I think you are wrong," she is pretending not to care at all but then tossing very rude and hurtful comments in as facts.

People who do this instinctually, even in a silly conversation about Taylor Swift, should be aware it's an abusive tactic. If you want to engage with people on an issue, do so directly and respectfully. Pretending not to care one way or another while issuing low-blow attacks is not the way.

You know what is also an abusive technique? Gaslighting. So quit telling people they are wrong for being a fan of someone.

Gaslighting? I don’t think you understand what that term means. It means manipulating someone into questioning his or her sanity. It does not mean telling someone that their preference for a celebrity is wrong.

That being said, no one in this thread has told anyone that they are wrong for being a fan. The only thing posters are doing on a thread titled “Taylor Swift is awful (and her music isn’t very good),” is discussing the reasons they think she’s a mediocre singer, lyricist and performer.

Voicing their opinions on her abilities is not gaslighting.

They absolutely have. I can point you about 100 comments on this thread of people saying they’re going to regret being a fan, they’re wrong, and have no musical taste,. You telling me that is not the case is completely manipulating reality which is the very definition of gaslighting. you’re also super condescending. I know what the definition of gaslighting is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

+1
I don't even care who we're arguing about - this is the issue with that nasty human being. Such a blowhard.

No one is saying you can’t like Taylor, we were saying we don’t like her on a thread titled to express that sentiment. And then fans came on talking about how amazing she is. When her music was critiqued in a more detailed manner, the people issuing those criticisms are suddenly “blowhards” and “arbiters of musical taste.” No, they are voicing their opinions. Why can’t they?

.

You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.

When I was a teenager, when I'd disagree with my dad, who was and is a physically and emotionally abusive narcissist, he'd do this thing when he'd lost an argument where he'd get really calm and condescending.

"Of course, you can dress however you'd like, dear. You'll look like a pathetic little whore, but you can of course decide what clothes to put on your body."

"You are of course entitled to your opinion. You sound like an ignorant, idiot bleeding heart liberal, but it's a free country."

I wonder why I thought of that just now.

comparing an anon poster writing an offhand one line comment to another anon poster....is NOT the same as the parent emotionally abusing a teen. Like at all. That said, your dad sucks and I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The PP's comment ("You can. 100%. It’s just sad as hell and a little pathetic, but you absolutely can.") is an abusive technique. Not saying that PP is an abuser, at all. But this is a common rhetorical tool that is abusive, where you mask insults and ad hominem ("sad as hell" and "pathetic") under a veneer of not caring at all, or being detached and reasonable. The PP actually cares deeply about the subject or they wouldn't be posting. But rather than saying "this is important to me and here are the reasons why I think you are wrong," she is pretending not to care at all but then tossing very rude and hurtful comments in as facts.

People who do this instinctually, even in a silly conversation about Taylor Swift, should be aware it's an abusive tactic. If you want to engage with people on an issue, do so directly and respectfully. Pretending not to care one way or another while issuing low-blow attacks is not the way.

You know what is also an abusive technique? Gaslighting. So quit telling people they are wrong for being a fan of someone.

Where has anyone said you are "wrong" for being a fan of someone? The point is just that some of us are not fans.

If you are looking for somewhere where your Taylor Swift fandom will be rewarded and celebrated, a quick Google search revealed the following:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwift/
https://newtaylorconnect.freeforums.net/forum
https://taylor.boards.net

There is no shortage of Taylor Swift echo chambers out there. Go forth! Enjoy!

Exactly, there’s no shortage of places to praise Taylor on the internet. This unprecedented and persistent attempt to quiet any adverse opinion on a pop star is making me think that some of these posters are actually lowly interns for Taylor’s PR team.

Well, last I checked this is a discussion board. People are expressing opinions. Some aren't yours. Suck it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing “blank space” and “America” by Paul simon?
That’s ridiculous and sad. Someone isn’t really arguing in good faith when they come up with absurd analogies.
Blank Space is a catchy pop tune. It’s got a hook ( which America does not). It’s meant for top 40 radio play. “America” is one of my favorite songs but get real. This is a silly comparison. And the sentiments aren’t rooted in anything similar.
Stop trying so hard.

I’m PP who made the comparison. Feel free to twist it around and take it out of context, but I was specifically asked who I do consider a good lyricist. Why do I have to pick a bad one to boost Taylor’s bland and reductive lyrics?

You want good pop lyrics? Listen to Regina Spektor. Do I have to go through everyone who is better than Taylor at writing lyrics? That would take up all year. Or do you want me to compare Taylor to the Spice Girls, so that she can sound good?

Do we have to lower musical standards to prop Taylor up? Or can’t her fans admit, she’s not a very good lyricist, even if her music makes you feel good. I love Abba, but I don’t go around saying Mama Mia has the best lyrics ever.

I am not quite sure you were the same poster, who was just looking for a place event, if if so, you are brutally contradicting yourself. Venting is different than practically begging Taylor Swift and to admit “yes her lyrics are not that good thank you for helping me see the light” lol. Do you not see why people are going to react to that. Sorry, but you’re probably not going get a lot of fans on this thread giving you that reaction. if that is what you need to be able to move on, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s one thing to vent or complain, it’s another thing which a lot of posters are doing to practically beg people to agree with them. it’s super annoying to be told that you are the arbiter of musical taste and everybody else is wrong. It’s also just really weird.

I am not the same poster. Believe it or not, there are lots of people who quietly can’t stand Taylor. That being said, being specific and detailed in explaining why you don’t like Taylor Swift’s is not “begging people to agree with you.”

Take your own advice and “move on,” if you are so bothered by comprehensive critiques of her music.

Dp nothing new is going to be said by the haters
So the thread should end. They don't like her and cannot believe that she is wildly sucessfull. They think their opinion matters more than the millions of fans.

We should stop responding because we know the truth and their mild tantrum won't change the facts.

This thread should end “because nothing new is going to be said?”

What’s it to you if the “haters” go back and forth stating the same things over and over? It’s called freedom of expression and last I heard, it was legal to criticize a “wildly sucessfull [sic]” artist.

If reading these comments bothers you, move along and stop responding!

You don't get to tell me how to respond. And you are haters. Why the quotes?

DP. You all seem to hate us for not liking Taylor Swift. Doesn't that make you haters too?

The difference is this:

Person A: "DD just got a new Mary Johnson record for christmas. I'm psyched - I love MJ!"

Person B: "Really? I am not a fan. A few of my friends tried to get me into her but I don't get it."

Person A: "Oh man. LOVE her. So who are your faves?"

And the conversation goes on for a few minutes ending music discussions at some point and veering into something else.

Vs:

Person A: "DD just got a new Mary Johnson record for christmas. I'm psyched - I love MJ!"

Person B: "Really? I'm not a fan. She is ugly, and her eggs are drying up. She can't write or sing. You are going to be embarrassed for liking her in 10 years."

Person A: "Hahahah.....oh wow look at the time...." leaves unhinged conversation

I personally think the personal attacks on Swift's looks or personal choices are lame and I've defended Swift on this thread against that, even though I don't like her at all as a musician or performer.

But even with that, your example doesn't hold up because

(1) this is not a casual conversation between two friends with a pre-existing relationship -- it's a thread about not liking Taylor Swift. So it's more like a group of people who all don't like Taylor Swift got together at a coffee shop and were talking about not liking Taylor Swift, and then "Person B" who is a Taylor Swift megafan, overheard them and comes and sits down at their table and tries to engage them in conversation about Taylor Swift, and then gets angry at them when they reiterate that they don't like her and actually came to this gathering for the express purpose of discussing how they don't like her. And then,

(2) not only refused to leave but told all the people who had made the plans to get together to discuss not liking Taylor Swift that THEY should leave, or at least sit there in silence, because their opinions on Taylor Swift, that they just wanted to share with each other, were hurting Person B's feelings.

I know a ton of people who love Taylor Swift and I never say anything more to them about her than "oh yeah, she's not my thing." Or sometimes I'll say something nice that I genuinely think, like "I've heard her show is really impressive and the costumes look awesome" or "she's a really savvy businesswoman -- I admire her for that." But at the end of the day, I do NOT like her music and don't get why other people do like it so much. It's just a total mystery to me why or how she sells so many albums and inspires such devotion. And I've tried. I've listened to many of her albums all the way through. I even have some artists I am a fan of who have done covers of her songs and I can't get into those either. I just don't like her. And that doesn't make me a jerk or stupid or pathetic or whatever. It just means I don't like Taylor Swift. To quote your very favorite musical artist, you need to calm down.