Teacher turnover

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's probably going to be a lot of turnover in a lot of professions. The pandemic has a lot of people rethinking their career choices.

Teachers in DC seem like they have a pretty cushy gig. They are extremely well paid and their union runs the schools. If they move somewhere else, they're likely going to take a pay cut and other school systems are not going to be so deferential to all their demands.

I moved from DCPS to MCPS a couple years ago. Yes, I took a small paycut but I’m much happier. MCPS has issues for sure, no question about it, but it is still much better run than DCPS. My principal is pretty good and is way less capricious and high handed than my old DCPS principal. The office staff at my new school is not great but the assistant principals are much stronger overall. Central office curriculum resources for my content area are fairly decent unlike some of the mish-mash DCPS used to send our way. Some of the MCPS professional development is also not great (similar to DCPS) but in general, the central office staff seems to be of higher quality than DCPS even though they are paid less than their DCPS counterparts. I think there is less cronyism and less of people hiring their friends. I’m happy I made the switch although life is not perfect.

Aren't class sizes bigger in most elementaries?

Maybe. I’m not sure. I don’t teach elementary school kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes there will be a ton of turnover this summer. But it’s looking like that in a lot of industries.

Wouldn't we know already, if our school has already announced who is leaving? Didn't they already have to commit for the next year?

No. The internal transfer deadline is in July. If you leave DCPS they can fine you $1000. But they never do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it any different than prior years? And is it purely about teachers being disgruntled? It sounds like some teachers moved because they....uh....wanted their kids to go to school in person and they are just staying someplace else?

I’m leaving my NW ES purely bc the families showed themselves to be really rude and entitled during the reopening period. I’m very excited to get out of the toxic W3 school culture.

So are you going to a different DCPS? Or what?

Yep different DCPS EOTP don’t want to get too detailed on here but it wasn’t too hard to find a school happy to take on a teacher with 5 straight years of highly effective scores. Looking forward to getting back to working with kids instead of placating overbearing parents

translation: you don’t want to be held accountable by parents so you’re moving to a school where you hope that less affluent parents will be less uppity.

If that’s what you got out of my statement then sure go with that. What exactly am I supposed to be accountable to parents for?

Are you serious? For teaching their kids and for treating them fairly

Sounds like that teacher did/does that. What is your problem???

Yeah I am the OP that was asking what parents were holding me accountable for. Seeing that answer, I guess I’m in good graces because I’ve done that all year. Glad to know I’ve met parent expectations during this difficult year, even if they haven’t realized it yet

My guess is the PP meant teaching effectively, which means in person.

No, I literally meant doing your best with teaching whether in-person or virtual - showing up to class on time every day, being organized and prepared, responsive to students, having empathy for them and grading fairly - many teachers cannot manage all that even though it is their job. Some teachers are amazing, some are good, some are just okay and then we have the weird, mean, crazy ones. I’m ok with a teacher who is not doing a good job if they are at least nice and I know that they are trying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it any different than prior years? And is it purely about teachers being disgruntled? It sounds like some teachers moved because they....uh....wanted their kids to go to school in person and they are just staying someplace else?

I’m leaving my NW ES purely bc the families showed themselves to be really rude and entitled during the reopening period. I’m very excited to get out of the toxic W3 school culture.

So are you going to a different DCPS? Or what?

Yep different DCPS EOTP don’t want to get too detailed on here but it wasn’t too hard to find a school happy to take on a teacher with 5 straight years of highly effective scores. Looking forward to getting back to working with kids instead of placating overbearing parents

translation: you don’t want to be held accountable by parents so you’re moving to a school where you hope that less affluent parents will be less uppity.

If that’s what you got out of my statement then sure go with that. What exactly am I supposed to be accountable to parents for?

Are you serious? For teaching their kids and for treating them fairly

Sounds like that teacher did/does that. What is your problem???

Yeah I am the OP that was asking what parents were holding me accountable for. Seeing that answer, I guess I’m in good graces because I’ve done that all year. Glad to know I’ve met parent expectations during this difficult year, even if they haven’t realized it yet

My guess is the PP meant teaching effectively, which means in person.

No, I literally meant doing your best with teaching whether in-person or virtual - showing up to class on time every day, being organized and prepared, responsive to students, having empathy for them and grading fairly - many teachers cannot manage all that even though it is their job. Some teachers are amazing, some are good, some are just okay and then we have the weird, mean, crazy ones. I’m ok with a teacher who is not doing a good job if they are at least nice and I know that they are trying.

This whole exchange seems way to polite for DCUM, but as the teacher who started this thing rolling I appreciate that you have reasonable expectations. I know exactly what those ineffective teachers look like, and as a teacher who gets frustrated by lazy coworkers I can only imagine how frustrating it may be when that person is responsible for you child. I’m sorry if you have had teachers like that, it does the rest of us no good to pretend they don’t exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher and I’m not surprised. I know many people who have decided to leave the profession at least for a few years (mostly women who have very young kids and want to just stay home with them) and many who moved elsewhere during the pandemic and are just choosing not to move back. There is also the looming threat of simulcasting that makes some people (myself included) question whether another year of this is worth it.

OP here- yes, a lot of our teachers moved somewhere and are just going to stay there.

Re: Simulcasting -- have teachers made it clear to their admins and the union that this is a major issue? Because I think its something that could help move the needle.

maybe WTU should have anticipated that simulcasting might be the consequence of their scare tactics and insistence on virtual options in 2021-22. If you don’t want simulcasting, talk to your union. They did it.

I hear you and please believe I have shared my feelings about being fully back in person since the fall. It’s like screaming into the void. I was referring, however, to simulcasting for next year. The idea that we might not have regular in person school next year is absurd. If I find out I am responsible to teach in person and online next year I might consider leaving DCPS.

and I can’t say I’d blame you. I’m pretty appalled that DCPS is even considering it.

This. It's not fair to the students or teachers. One of my kid's teachers is forced to monitor the kids in school for two periods, but she teaches completely different classes virtually while they take different virtual classes. All in the same room. She's never once said a negative word about it, but I have to imagine this is burning her out. I'm afraid that the Principal's decision to operate this way (and fail to tell parents it wouldn't actually be in person learning) is going to force out some of the good teachers like this one.

I'm also livid with WTU because they should take a hard stance against simulcasting but they haven't. I understand the above scenario isn't simulcasting, but anything other than teaching only the students in the room with you is a setup for failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it any different than prior years? And is it purely about teachers being disgruntled? It sounds like some teachers moved because they....uh....wanted their kids to go to school in person and they are just staying someplace else?

I’m leaving my NW ES purely bc the families showed themselves to be really rude and entitled during the reopening period. I’m very excited to get out of the toxic W3 school culture.

So are you going to a different DCPS? Or what?

Yep different DCPS EOTP don’t want to get too detailed on here but it wasn’t too hard to find a school happy to take on a teacher with 5 straight years of highly effective scores. Looking forward to getting back to working with kids instead of placating overbearing parents

translation: you don’t want to be held accountable by parents so you’re moving to a school where you hope that less affluent parents will be less uppity.

DP. It’s not being held accountable. It’s parents being overbearing and “bulldozer” parents.

Overbearing "bulldozer" parents are why those schools opened. And hence why PP is moving to a school where parents demand less accountability. She doesn't like it.

You weren’t able to answer the first time so I’ll try again, what exactly are you trying to hold me accountable for? My admin seems to think my work is exemplary based on my reviews so I’d love to hear what I’m missing from the parent side

Did you go on strike in November?

Sure did, and I’d do it again. DCPS had a haphazard plan that no part of the education community (principals also opposed this plan, as did the state board of Ed) supported. If that one day sick out was what forced DCPS to engage with their partners on reopening then it was absolutely worth it. If you’re the type of parent still butt hurt over that, well then I don’t really know what to tell you.

Well, there you go. You needed to be held accountable, and you will continue to be held accountable.

What does that even mean? You’re just planning on hating every teacher forever that did the sick out? That’s certainly your choice, but it’s a weird one

No, but you better bet that I will be extremely proactive about pushing changes that I think will benefit my kid or solving problems for them. Because the pandemic closures have taught me that the system will not be accountable unless forced.

That’s great! We appreciate parents that advocate for their kids. What will that ideally look like for you next year?

It will look like everyone in the classroom like in 2018. Any other questions?

Nope - that’s what’s going to happen. Glad we’re all on the same page. You good to move on now?

Not really. When you lose someone’s trust you can’t just demand they trust you again. Not how it works sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher and I’m not surprised. I know many people who have decided to leave the profession at least for a few years (mostly women who have very young kids and want to just stay home with them) and many who moved elsewhere during the pandemic and are just choosing not to move back. There is also the looming threat of simulcasting that makes some people (myself included) question whether another year of this is worth it.

OP here- yes, a lot of our teachers moved somewhere and are just going to stay there.

Re: Simulcasting -- have teachers made it clear to their admins and the union that this is a major issue? Because I think its something that could help move the needle.

maybe WTU should have anticipated that simulcasting might be the consequence of their scare tactics and insistence on virtual options in 2021-22. If you don’t want simulcasting, talk to your union. They did it.

I hear you and please believe I have shared my feelings about being fully back in person since the fall. It’s like screaming into the void. I was referring, however, to simulcasting for next year. The idea that we might not have regular in person school next year is absurd. If I find out I am responsible to teach in person and online next year I might consider leaving DCPS.

and I can’t say I’d blame you. I’m pretty appalled that DCPS is even considering it.

This. It's not fair to the students or teachers. One of my kid's teachers is forced to monitor the kids in school for two periods, but she teaches completely different classes virtually while they take different virtual classes. All in the same room. She's never once said a negative word about it, but I have to imagine this is burning her out. I'm afraid that the Principal's decision to operate this way (and fail to tell parents it wouldn't actually be in person learning) is going to force out some of the good teachers like this one.

I'm also livid with WTU because they should take a hard stance against simulcasting but they haven't. I understand the above scenario isn't simulcasting, but anything other than teaching only the students in the room with you is a setup for failure.

I also am wondering about this. The WTU would seem to advocate for limits on teacher duties. I think that's reasonable. My teacher friends in other states who have done simulcast throughout the year have said it increases their work load and is exhausting. I would think that, given we are going back in person in the Fall, the WTU would advocate for NO simulcasting. It would be in the best interest of teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher and I’m not surprised. I know many people who have decided to leave the profession at least for a few years (mostly women who have very young kids and want to just stay home with them) and many who moved elsewhere during the pandemic and are just choosing not to move back. There is also the looming threat of simulcasting that makes some people (myself included) question whether another year of this is worth it.

OP here- yes, a lot of our teachers moved somewhere and are just going to stay there.

Re: Simulcasting -- have teachers made it clear to their admins and the union that this is a major issue? Because I think its something that could help move the needle.

maybe WTU should have anticipated that simulcasting might be the consequence of their scare tactics and insistence on virtual options in 2021-22. If you don’t want simulcasting, talk to your union. They did it.

I hear you and please believe I have shared my feelings about being fully back in person since the fall. It’s like screaming into the void. I was referring, however, to simulcasting for next year. The idea that we might not have regular in person school next year is absurd. If I find out I am responsible to teach in person and online next year I might consider leaving DCPS.

and I can’t say I’d blame you. I’m pretty appalled that DCPS is even considering it.

This. It's not fair to the students or teachers. One of my kid's teachers is forced to monitor the kids in school for two periods, but she teaches completely different classes virtually while they take different virtual classes. All in the same room. She's never once said a negative word about it, but I have to imagine this is burning her out. I'm afraid that the Principal's decision to operate this way (and fail to tell parents it wouldn't actually be in person learning) is going to force out some of the good teachers like this one.

I'm also livid with WTU because they should take a hard stance against simulcasting but they haven't. I understand the above scenario isn't simulcasting, but anything other than teaching only the students in the room with you is a setup for failure.

I also am wondering about this. The WTU would seem to advocate for limits on teacher duties. I think that's reasonable. My teacher friends in other states who have done simulcast throughout the year have said it increases their work load and is exhausting. I would think that, given we are going back in person in the Fall, the WTU would advocate for NO simulcasting. It would be in the best interest of teachers.

Problem is that many central office folk have not taught a day in their life and have no idea what it takes to teach students well.

[Anonymous]

Teachers leave the profession in 5 years (nationally) or less in DC I think the data was 4 years or less.

This is common. Although teachers are well paid in DCPS, they continue to leave due to lack of support, punitive evaluations, and lack of admin checks in power. I'm sure there's more.
Charters despite supposedly being more free, have a slightly high rate of teachers leaving than DCPS.

It's a difficult profession, especially when you are teaching kids with higher needs, academically or socially/emotionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes there will be a ton of turnover this summer. But it’s looking like that in a lot of industries.

Wouldn't we know already, if our school has already announced who is leaving? Didn't they already have to commit for the next year?

No. The internal transfer deadline is in July. If you leave DCPS they can fine you $1000. But they never do.

Well the internal transfer may be until July but the cutoff is late April and your principal can block you from transferring to another school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it any different than prior years? And is it purely about teachers being disgruntled? It sounds like some teachers moved because they....uh....wanted their kids to go to school in person and they are just staying someplace else?

I’m leaving my NW ES purely bc the families showed themselves to be really rude and entitled during the reopening period. I’m very excited to get out of the toxic W3 school culture.

So are you going to a different DCPS? Or what?

Yep different DCPS EOTP don’t want to get too detailed on here but it wasn’t too hard to find a school happy to take on a teacher with 5 straight years of highly effective scores. Looking forward to getting back to working with kids instead of placating overbearing parents

translation: you don’t want to be held accountable by parents so you’re moving to a school where you hope that less affluent parents will be less uppity.

DP. It’s not being held accountable. It’s parents being overbearing and “bulldozer” parents.

Overbearing "bulldozer" parents are why those schools opened. And hence why PP is moving to a school where parents demand less accountability. She doesn't like it.

You weren’t able to answer the first time so I’ll try again, what exactly are you trying to hold me accountable for? My admin seems to think my work is exemplary based on my reviews so I’d love to hear what I’m missing from the parent side

Did you go on strike in November?

Sure did, and I’d do it again. DCPS had a haphazard plan that no part of the education community (principals also opposed this plan, as did the state board of Ed) supported. If that one day sick out was what forced DCPS to engage with their partners on reopening then it was absolutely worth it. If you’re the type of parent still butt hurt over that, well then I don’t really know what to tell you.

Well, there you go. You needed to be held accountable, and you will continue to be held accountable.

What does that even mean? You’re just planning on hating every teacher forever that did the sick out? That’s certainly your choice, but it’s a weird one

No, but you better bet that I will be extremely proactive about pushing changes that I think will benefit my kid or solving problems for them. Because the pandemic closures have taught me that the system will not be accountable unless forced.

That’s great! We appreciate parents that advocate for their kids. What will that ideally look like for you next year?

It will look like everyone in the classroom like in 2018. Any other questions?

Nope - that’s what’s going to happen. Glad we’re all on the same page. You good to move on now?

Not really. When you lose someone’s trust you can’t just demand they trust you again. Not how it works sorry.

Darn, I’ve lost the trust of anonymous poster. How will I even show up to school tomorrow knowing that someone doesn’t trust me to do the job I’ve been doing.
Hate ain’t the way friend…gotta move on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher and I’m not surprised. I know many people who have decided to leave the profession at least for a few years (mostly women who have very young kids and want to just stay home with them) and many who moved elsewhere during the pandemic and are just choosing not to move back. There is also the looming threat of simulcasting that makes some people (myself included) question whether another year of this is worth it.

OP here- yes, a lot of our teachers moved somewhere and are just going to stay there.

Re: Simulcasting -- have teachers made it clear to their admins and the union that this is a major issue? Because I think its something that could help move the needle.

maybe WTU should have anticipated that simulcasting might be the consequence of their scare tactics and insistence on virtual options in 2021-22. If you don’t want simulcasting, talk to your union. They did it.

I hear you and please believe I have shared my feelings about being fully back in person since the fall. It’s like screaming into the void. I was referring, however, to simulcasting for next year. The idea that we might not have regular in person school next year is absurd. If I find out I am responsible to teach in person and online next year I might consider leaving DCPS.

and I can’t say I’d blame you. I’m pretty appalled that DCPS is even considering it.

This. It's not fair to the students or teachers. One of my kid's teachers is forced to monitor the kids in school for two periods, but she teaches completely different classes virtually while they take different virtual classes. All in the same room. She's never once said a negative word about it, but I have to imagine this is burning her out. I'm afraid that the Principal's decision to operate this way (and fail to tell parents it wouldn't actually be in person learning) is going to force out some of the good teachers like this one.

I'm also livid with WTU because they should take a hard stance against simulcasting but they haven't. I understand the above scenario isn't simulcasting, but anything other than teaching only the students in the room with you is a setup for failure.

I also am wondering about this. The WTU would seem to advocate for limits on teacher duties. I think that's reasonable. My teacher friends in other states who have done simulcast throughout the year have said it increases their work load and is exhausting. I would think that, given we are going back in person in the Fall, the WTU would advocate for NO simulcasting. It would be in the best interest of teachers.

Agreed, but WTU is corrupt. They're not giving up the virtual stance so easily because they're trying to squeeze more benefits from DCPS in exchange for returning to work. They're also in a bind because their actions to obstruct reopening created a mass exodus/lowered enrollment. This could lead to teacher layoffs. They'll likely focus their demands around not laying off excess teachers. They started with their ridiculous tweet trying to justify social distancing requirements that would necessitate extra classrooms/teacher. WTU also focuses more on eliminating evidence of failures (standardized testing, impact) than setting teachers up for success. Lots of effort expended on how to keep DCPS from firing the poor performers rather than how to support good teachers. WTU is part of why DCPS is so attractive to crappy teachers who want to coast, and so challenging for good teachers who want to excel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it any different than prior years? And is it purely about teachers being disgruntled? It sounds like some teachers moved because they....uh....wanted their kids to go to school in person and they are just staying someplace else?

I’m leaving my NW ES purely bc the families showed themselves to be really rude and entitled during the reopening period. I’m very excited to get out of the toxic W3 school culture.

So are you going to a different DCPS? Or what?

Yep different DCPS EOTP don’t want to get too detailed on here but it wasn’t too hard to find a school happy to take on a teacher with 5 straight years of highly effective scores. Looking forward to getting back to working with kids instead of placating overbearing parents

It really frustrates me when educators assume that low income parents won't have (or shouldn't have) expectations and desires and be as engaged and demanding as higher income parents. It sometimes feels as if certain educators talk about the importance of family engagement but don't really want it and worse look for a certain student body assuming there won't be parents asking questions or keeping an eye out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it any different than prior years? And is it purely about teachers being disgruntled? It sounds like some teachers moved because they....uh....wanted their kids to go to school in person and they are just staying someplace else?

I’m leaving my NW ES purely bc the families showed themselves to be really rude and entitled during the reopening period. I’m very excited to get out of the toxic W3 school culture.

So are you going to a different DCPS? Or what?

Yep different DCPS EOTP don’t want to get too detailed on here but it wasn’t too hard to find a school happy to take on a teacher with 5 straight years of highly effective scores. Looking forward to getting back to working with kids instead of placating overbearing parents

It really frustrates me when educators assume that low income parents won't have (or shouldn't have) expectations and desires and be as engaged and demanding as higher income parents. It sometimes feels as if certain educators talk about the importance of family engagement but don't really want it and worse look for a certain student body assuming there won't be parents asking questions or keeping an eye out.

I’m sorry that you’re frustrated, but my observations come from extensive (5+ Years) in both situations. On one side, a majority of families consider themselves an integral part of a team; on the other side you have families that think their tax dollars equal ownership over your life

[Anonymous]

Principal: 6 resignations. Some experienced some new.