Friends Reunion on HBO Max is out today - tell me your thoughts!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The gay jokes are so interesting to me now knowing now that one of the creators was gay - one of the creators talked about his husband being on Mad About You.

I suspect you are younger than me. In the context of the times, I think it was actually moderately progressive, especially with the Chandler dad being trans. (played by a woman), which now would be weird. Most gay guys I knew back then made a fair number of jokes that might be considered a little surprising now—humor being a way to deal with the oppression. (Look at the old Will and Grace episodes.) I think there was also probably an element of making fun of a certain type of guy that was very common in the 90s—when even pretty nice and tolerant straight guys had a lot of internalized homophobia based in insecurity. (Eg the “not that there’s anything wrong with that” jokes on Seinfeld.). So the creator was probably reflecting that in the characters.
For me, the fat suit stuff was and remains pretty cringey.

[Anonymous]

On the rich lady plastic surgery comment...a couple of years ago someone gave me a set of expensive tickets to the Nats games and I was totally surprised at the faces of the older women (60s) sitting in the high priced seats. I had a very nice conversation with a woman who was very sweet but looked like an alien with all the fillers and weird mouth. There were a bunch of women in various stages of that look and it was so weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gay jokes are so interesting to me now knowing now that one of the creators was gay - one of the creators talked about his husband being on Mad About You.

I suspect you are younger than me. In the context of the times, I think it was actually moderately progressive, especially with the Chandler dad being trans. (played by a woman), which now would be weird. Most gay guys I knew back then made a fair number of jokes that might be considered a little surprising now—humor being a way to deal with the oppression. (Look at the old Will and Grace episodes.) I think there was also probably an element of making fun of a certain type of guy that was very common in the 90s—when even pretty nice and tolerant straight guys had a lot of internalized homophobia based in insecurity. (Eg the “not that there’s anything wrong with that” jokes on Seinfeld.). So the creator was probably reflecting that in the characters.
For me, the fat suit stuff was and remains pretty cringey.

Agree totally. The trans dad, the gay couple (Ross's first ex), etc were actually pretty progressive compared to other shows at the time. Yes there were no diverse main characters, but Aisha Taylor's character was a PhD who was a colleague of Ross's at the university where he worked, Chandler had a number of black bosses, etc. That's not unrealistic for the early 90s (that a close group of young 20s friends wouldn't include any black friends, but they'd have black people as part of their larger social/professional circles).

Agree also that the fat stuff is BAD and did not age well.

[Anonymous]

A bunch of them - most noticeable Matthew, Jen and David - had this weird thing where their upper lips looked kind of pinched and thin. Is that a plastic surgery thing?

Lisa and Leblanc are adorable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the rich lady plastic surgery comment...a couple of years ago someone gave me a set of expensive tickets to the Nats games and I was totally surprised at the faces of the older women (60s) sitting in the high priced seats. I had a very nice conversation with a woman who was very sweet but looked like an alien with all the fillers and weird mouth. There were a bunch of women in various stages of that look and it was so weird.

Madonna was at a Nats game?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teens I know watch it. My 15 year old and her best friend love it. Mine even picked a shirt for Election Day that was Friends inspired.

Save some of the unfortunate gay jokes (product of the times), I don’t think it’s all that bad. Am I missing something?

Well, there's the lack of diversity, for one thing. Apparently Schwimmer had to beg for girlfriends of color, and even then, Julie and Charlie were shallow characters with no substance to them whatsoever. There's a reason Aisha Taylor, Lauren Tom, and hell, even Christina Applegate and Paul Rudd didn't guest star.

I wondered why none of the minority actors returned for this. Aisha Taylor and Lauren Tom were great, among the more dimensional guest star characters. I didn’t think they were shallow, but rather more logical choices for Ross. Rachel made no sense on paper, was a “heart wants what the heart wants” thing.

By shallow, I meant that we never got to know them very well. This article in Marie Claire of all places explains it pretty well: https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a36522146/friends-women-of-color-romantic-racism/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gay jokes are so interesting to me now knowing now that one of the creators was gay - one of the creators talked about his husband being on Mad About You.

I suspect you are younger than me. In the context of the times, I think it was actually moderately progressive, especially with the Chandler dad being trans. (played by a woman), which now would be weird. Most gay guys I knew back then made a fair number of jokes that might be considered a little surprising now—humor being a way to deal with the oppression. (Look at the old Will and Grace episodes.) I think there was also probably an element of making fun of a certain type of guy that was very common in the 90s—when even pretty nice and tolerant straight guys had a lot of internalized homophobia based in insecurity. (Eg the “not that there’s anything wrong with that” jokes on Seinfeld.). So the creator was probably reflecting that in the characters.
For me, the fat suit stuff was and remains pretty cringey.

Agree totally. The trans dad, the gay couple (Ross's first ex), etc were actually pretty progressive compared to other shows at the time. Yes there were no diverse main characters, but Aisha Taylor's character was a PhD who was a colleague of Ross's at the university where he worked, Chandler had a number of black bosses, etc. That's not unrealistic for the early 90s (that a close group of young 20s friends wouldn't include any black friends, but they'd have black people as part of their larger social/professional circles).

Agree also that the fat stuff is BAD and did not age well.

I feel like it says a lot about you that you are more concerned about the fat shaming than the lack of diversity on the show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teens I know watch it. My 15 year old and her best friend love it. Mine even picked a shirt for Election Day that was Friends inspired.

Save some of the unfortunate gay jokes (product of the times), I don’t think it’s all that bad. Am I missing something?

Well, there's the lack of diversity, for one thing. Apparently Schwimmer had to beg for girlfriends of color, and even then, Julie and Charlie were shallow characters with no substance to them whatsoever. There's a reason Aisha Taylor, Lauren Tom, and hell, even Christina Applegate and Paul Rudd didn't guest star.

I wondered why none of the minority actors returned for this. Aisha Taylor and Lauren Tom were great, among the more dimensional guest star characters. I didn’t think they were shallow, but rather more logical choices for Ross. Rachel made no sense on paper, was a “heart wants what the heart wants” thing.

By shallow, I meant that we never got to know them very well. This article in Marie Claire of all places explains it pretty well: https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a36522146/friends-women-of-color-romantic-racism/

That article is RIDICULOUS, IMO. Ross and Rachel had known each other their whole lives. Yes, Julie and Charlie were his professional peers, but that's not always how life goes. And this line:

Shows like Friends have told Black women, time and time again, that you can be the most accomplished, beautiful, funny, stellar person and you won’t get your Happily Ever After. Because there’s a white person out there the audience believes should have it more.

If I recall, at least one of these women dumped Ross. And that white person was his lifelong love. Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gay jokes are so interesting to me now knowing now that one of the creators was gay - one of the creators talked about his husband being on Mad About You.

I suspect you are younger than me. In the context of the times, I think it was actually moderately progressive, especially with the Chandler dad being trans. (played by a woman), which now would be weird. Most gay guys I knew back then made a fair number of jokes that might be considered a little surprising now—humor being a way to deal with the oppression. (Look at the old Will and Grace episodes.) I think there was also probably an element of making fun of a certain type of guy that was very common in the 90s—when even pretty nice and tolerant straight guys had a lot of internalized homophobia based in insecurity. (Eg the “not that there’s anything wrong with that” jokes on Seinfeld.). So the creator was probably reflecting that in the characters.
For me, the fat suit stuff was and remains pretty cringey.

Agree totally. The trans dad, the gay couple (Ross's first ex), etc were actually pretty progressive compared to other shows at the time. Yes there were no diverse main characters, but Aisha Taylor's character was a PhD who was a colleague of Ross's at the university where he worked, Chandler had a number of black bosses, etc. That's not unrealistic for the early 90s (that a close group of young 20s friends wouldn't include any black friends, but they'd have black people as part of their larger social/professional circles).

Agree also that the fat stuff is BAD and did not age well.

I feel like it says a lot about you that you are more concerned about the fat shaming than the lack of diversity on the show.

Oh and this line:

Do I think 2021 Ross would be the type of person to say “I can’t be racist/homophobic, I dated an Asian woman and a Black woman and was married to a lesbian,” without any type of clue as to why that’s an icky thing to say? You know that’s exactly how it would go down.

Um, Ross is a fictional character and you have no idea what '2021' Ross would or wouldn't say. That article is a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The gay jokes are so interesting to me now knowing now that one of the creators was gay - one of the creators talked about his husband being on Mad About You.

I suspect you are younger than me. In the context of the times, I think it was actually moderately progressive, especially with the Chandler dad being trans. (played by a woman), which now would be weird. Most gay guys I knew back then made a fair number of jokes that might be considered a little surprising now—humor being a way to deal with the oppression. (Look at the old Will and Grace episodes.) I think there was also probably an element of making fun of a certain type of guy that was very common in the 90s—when even pretty nice and tolerant straight guys had a lot of internalized homophobia based in insecurity. (Eg the “not that there’s anything wrong with that” jokes on Seinfeld.). So the creator was probably reflecting that in the characters.
For me, the fat suit stuff was and remains pretty cringey.

Agree totally. The trans dad, the gay couple (Ross's first ex), etc were actually pretty progressive compared to other shows at the time. Yes there were no diverse main characters, but Aisha Taylor's character was a PhD who was a colleague of Ross's at the university where he worked, Chandler had a number of black bosses, etc. That's not unrealistic for the early 90s (that a close group of young 20s friends wouldn't include any black friends, but they'd have black people as part of their larger social/professional circles).

Agree also that the fat stuff is BAD and did not age well.

I feel like it says a lot about you that you are more concerned about the fat shaming than the lack of diversity on the show.

The show was realistic - if not progressive - for its time in terms of diversity. There's also a difference between a lack of something and openly mocking something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teens I know watch it. My 15 year old and her best friend love it. Mine even picked a shirt for Election Day that was Friends inspired.

Save some of the unfortunate gay jokes (product of the times), I don’t think it’s all that bad. Am I missing something?

Well, there's the lack of diversity, for one thing. Apparently Schwimmer had to beg for girlfriends of color, and even then, Julie and Charlie were shallow characters with no substance to them whatsoever. There's a reason Aisha Taylor, Lauren Tom, and hell, even Christina Applegate and Paul Rudd didn't guest star.

I wondered why none of the minority actors returned for this. Aisha Taylor and Lauren Tom were great, among the more dimensional guest star characters. I didn’t think they were shallow, but rather more logical choices for Ross. Rachel made no sense on paper, was a “heart wants what the heart wants” thing.

I remember distinctly thinking at the time that they were too good for Ross!

[Anonymous]

Aisha’s character broke up with Ross for another white professor, who was her ex

Yes, there is a lack of diversity on the show. Like many, many popular sitcoms.

I just think the show is a product of its time. Sure there are problems looking at it through the 2021 lens. Times change.

I was nowhere near as progressive in the 90s as I am now. You grow, you learn, you do better

[Anonymous]

My daughter and I had Friends on yesterday as we were doing some mindless work. It was the time period around the wedding/Rachel’s surprise pregnancy. Ross started seeing Mona. She was very cute and a better match for him than Rachel

I was actually mad when they forced them together with a kid and the stupidity in the finale. They no longer made sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the rich lady plastic surgery comment...a couple of years ago someone gave me a set of expensive tickets to the Nats games and I was totally surprised at the faces of the older women (60s) sitting in the high priced seats. I had a very nice conversation with a woman who was very sweet but looked like an alien with all the fillers and weird mouth. There were a bunch of women in various stages of that look and it was so weird.

+1

YES! Mclean Giant - they all look alike!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The teens I know watch it. My 15 year old and her best friend love it. Mine even picked a shirt for Election Day that was Friends inspired.

Save some of the unfortunate gay jokes (product of the times), I don’t think it’s all that bad. Am I missing something?

Well, there's the lack of diversity, for one thing. Apparently Schwimmer had to beg for girlfriends of color, and even then, Julie and Charlie were shallow characters with no substance to them whatsoever. There's a reason Aisha Taylor, Lauren Tom, and hell, even Christina Applegate and Paul Rudd didn't guest star.

I wondered why none of the minority actors returned for this. Aisha Taylor and Lauren Tom were great, among the more dimensional guest star characters. I didn’t think they were shallow, but rather more logical choices for Ross. Rachel made no sense on paper, was a “heart wants what the heart wants” thing.

By shallow, I meant that we never got to know them very well. This article in Marie Claire of all places explains it pretty well: https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a36522146/friends-women-of-color-romantic-racism/

Both Charlie and Julie DID get their happily ever after! Charlie dumped Ross because her true love was Greg Kinnear. And remember how Julie fell in love with Russ? Russ was her true lobster!

That article is RIDICULOUS, IMO. Ross and Rachel had known each other their whole lives. Yes, Julie and Charlie were his professional peers, but that's not always how life goes. And this line:

Shows like Friends have told Black women, time and time again, that you can be the most accomplished, beautiful, funny, stellar person and you won’t get your Happily Ever After. Because there’s a white person out there the audience believes should have it more.

If I recall, at least one of these women dumped Ross. And that white person was his lifelong love. Give me a break.