Working women are getting the shaft

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been married for 21 years, working full-time for 18 of them (took off 3 1/2 years when kids were very young). My husband has not worked in over 7 years, yet has never booked a single doctor's appointment, orthodontist, teacher conference, playdate (okay, well we don't do those anymore), or outing. He doesn't know what classes our kids take, when their practice times are--or possibly even what sports they play. Doesn't know who their friends are. He doesn't grocery shop, cook, or do laundry. He thinks he cleans the house by running the vaccuum once a week, but refuses to clean bathrooms--and won't allow us to hire a house cleaner. The only time he leaves the house is to walk the dog and every now and then to pick up our daughter from somewhere if I ask nicely. Last night, he canceled Hulu--he canceled our cable years ago--because he says it's gotten too expensive. He yells at me about our credit card bill every single month, even though I pay 100% of it. I pay for 75% of everything. He contributes the rest from his very large trust fund. You all don't even know uneven or the depths of resentment that a wife treated so unfairly can feel. If you see your future starting to look like this, start saving money now and get out!

Yet clearly you are staying???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

RBG’s and Kamala’s husbands stepped up.

Pretty sure RBG had hired help at home..

And what did Kamala's DH step up to? They married late in life and don't have kids. Either way, he isn't home scrubbing toilets

Exactly. Kamala doesn’t have biological children. When she married her husband, her step kids weren’t kids. So she hasn’t gone any child rearing or taken on those kind of responsibilities or stress. And she has only been married a few years.

Sounds like a smart woman.

She's 56 and about to be the most powerful woman in the United States if not the world.

I agree she's smart but she's not the example to use about the average working mother being successful and having a partner that helps on equal footing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got one of those rare marriages where my husband actually does half, it's amazing, and I feel awful for everyone else. You truly have my sympathies. Especially those who had husbands who seemed to be doing their half before marriage/kids and then it all fell apart. Totally sucks.

That said:

1) I would not put up with it. Do your half or I'm out. It's not something I would learn to live with.

2) I also knew when dating that this is a big issue, so I was looking for someone who would do this, and we had LOTS of conversations about it while dating, engaged, newlywed, and pregnant.

3) There is an element of giving up control that you need to accept to have this marriage. My husband is in charge of all baby food. He does NOT do it the way I would - not as many veggies. Everything is store bought Gerber. He's introduced foods a bit willy-nilly, without following a plan or anything. But I don't say a damn word. Because it's done, it's great, and I literally just feed my kid what my husband puts on the counter for me. I never even think about it. That's a win.

You have zero idea of the bolded is true. Zero. Divorce with children is a big, big deal, and it’s so much easier to say what you’d do when you’ve never faced this situation. I’m not even in a position where I’m considering it, but I have enough friends who have to see up close that it’s nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

Point two: plenty of people discuss this stuff during dating, and then things change once they have kids. People get sick, or have a kid who activates certain tendencies, or just find it a hell of a lot more stressful than they anticipated. You can talk beforehand until you’re blue in the face; if you haven’t had to deal with things changing in the moment, have some empathy for those who have.

Point three, sure.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

RBG’s and Kamala’s husbands stepped up.

Pretty sure RBG had hired help at home..

And what did Kamala's DH step up to? They married late in life and don't have kids. Either way, he isn't home scrubbing toilets

Exactly. Kamala doesn’t have biological children. When she married her husband, her step kids weren’t kids. So she hasn’t gone any child rearing or taken on those kind of responsibilities or stress. And she has only been married a few years.

So? Let's please not tear down the first female VP because she is not a biological mother. She is a step mother and that counts as extra work.

The point went right over your head. Kamala was not married nor a mother or step mother during the majority of her career. So how is she the example to use of working women/mothers getting the shaft? If anything, she proves the point that they do, that because she wasn't married and because she wasn't raising children she was able to be so successful. Geesh, some people are always looking to nitpick and find something offensive, when it wasn't even there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

RBG’s and Kamala’s husbands stepped up.

Pretty sure RBG had hired help at home..

And what did Kamala's DH step up to? They married late in life and don't have kids. Either way, he isn't home scrubbing toilets

RBG spoke about having to tell the school that her son had two parents and to alternate calls.

My BFF is a surgeon and her kids' schools know not to call her for any reason whatsoever. They don't even have her private cell number.

That's the way to go. Just say no to others' expectations of you. She has a nanny and a husband. Those two can figure it out between them.

She is such the stereotypical "husband" in her marriage, it delights me to see it play out. She is truly a badass. Me, not so much.

And it was such a love story!

[Anonymous]

Totally accurate. Just shoot me. We were all sold a scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

RBG’s and Kamala’s husbands stepped up.

Pretty sure RBG had hired help at home..

And what did Kamala's DH step up to? They married late in life and don't have kids. Either way, he isn't home scrubbing toilets

RBG spoke about having to tell the school that her son had two parents and to alternate calls.

My BFF is a surgeon and her kids' schools know not to call her for any reason whatsoever. They don't even have her private cell number.

That's the way to go. Just say no to others' expectations of you. She has a nanny and a husband. Those two can figure it out between them.

She is such the stereotypical "husband" in her marriage, it delights me to see it play out. She is truly a badass. Me, not so much.

And it was such a love story!

So RBG was at work until 9PM every night before being dragged home and the surgeon has a private no kids cell phone. Why even bother having kids at all?

I feel like society expects women to want kids but when they do their duty ands it’s not their first priority - the kids end up neglected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

And for corporations to step up majorly. And for Govt to make policies that are family friendly and women friendly.

Yes, women are getting the shaft. In America especially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

RBG’s and Kamala’s husbands stepped up.

Pretty sure RBG had hired help at home..

And what did Kamala's DH step up to? They married late in life and don't have kids. Either way, he isn't home scrubbing toilets

RBG spoke about having to tell the school that her son had two parents and to alternate calls.

My BFF is a surgeon and her kids' schools know not to call her for any reason whatsoever. They don't even have her private cell number.

That's the way to go. Just say no to others' expectations of you. She has a nanny and a husband. Those two can figure it out between them.

She is such the stereotypical "husband" in her marriage, it delights me to see it play out. She is truly a badass. Me, not so much.

And it was such a love story!

So RBG was at work until 9PM every night before being dragged home and the surgeon has a private no kids cell phone. Why even bother having kids at all?

I feel like society expects women to want kids but when they do their duty ands it’s not their first priority - the kids end up neglected.

Today in stupid sexist crap that never gets said to men.

[Anonymous]

Women always vastly over report how much they contribute in these ridiculous surveys. The studies on this never have objective 3rd parties that actually measure how much each spouse contributes.

Go ahead and ask my wife who does the majority of his work. She'll adamantly claim she does most of it, and will hardly give credit for me taking care of the yard, taking care of home repair, taking care of car maintenance, taking out the trash, cooking, emptying and loading the dish washer, vacuuming, mopping the floors, taking care of all of the finances and insurance issues, and taking care of all pet work.


Most of these stupid surveys measure things like 'amount of time spent'. Sure, my wife does the laundry because she doesn't want anyone touching her clothes, but half the time she's watching Netflix while waiting for the wash and dry cycles to complete. You can't do that while mowing a large lawn. Spending 2 hours mowing the lawn is much more work than 3-4 hours of doing laundry where you just wait around half the time while watching TV. You also hardly ever have to take time off work to do house chores, which is often not the case when you have to do car maintenance and schedule mechanic repairs for all of the cars. Why is it that I always have to use vacation time and have work pile up at work when cars have to get fixed? Women should start going to the grease monkeys for family car repairs instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got one of those rare marriages where my husband actually does half, it's amazing, and I feel awful for everyone else. You truly have my sympathies. Especially those who had husbands who seemed to be doing their half before marriage/kids and then it all fell apart. Totally sucks.

That said:

1) I would not put up with it. Do your half or I'm out. It's not something I would learn to live with.

2) I also knew when dating that this is a big issue, so I was looking for someone who would do this, and we had LOTS of conversations about it while dating, engaged, newlywed, and pregnant.

3) There is an element of giving up control that you need to accept to have this marriage. My husband is in charge of all baby food. He does NOT do it the way I would - not as many veggies. Everything is store bought Gerber. He's introduced foods a bit willy-nilly, without following a plan or anything. But I don't say a damn word. Because it's done, it's great, and I literally just feed my kid what my husband puts on the counter for me. I never even think about it. That's a win.

You have zero idea of the bolded is true. Zero. Divorce with children is a big, big deal, and it’s so much easier to say what you’d do when you’ve never faced this situation. I’m not even in a position where I’m considering it, but I have enough friends who have to see up close that it’s nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

Point two: plenty of people discuss this stuff during dating, and then things change once they have kids. People get sick, or have a kid who activates certain tendencies, or just find it a hell of a lot more stressful than they anticipated. You can talk beforehand until you’re blue in the face; if you haven’t had to deal with things changing in the moment, have some empathy for those who have.

Point three, sure.

+2

Hi, I'm the poster who put the three points above, which I noticed have caused a lot of great discussion on this thread, which is great!

I want to address some of your counter points. Yes, I know that plenty of people talk about this stuff and then they have kids and things change, and I have tons of empathy for them. In fact, that's what I lead with in my comment - that I absolutely feel for people who are in this position, it must be so, so difficult.

As far as splitting up - I'm aware that it's very difficult. My parents divorced when I was a child. Obviously I can't know for sure how I would behave in a certain situation (no one can see around corners), I still believe that I would choose to end the marriage. Note that I'm saying that I would do that - not that I'm telling people in these situations that's what THEY should do - everyone is doing the best with what they've got. And in no way do I think divorce is easy or simple. However, I know myself pretty well, and my limitations, and I know that I react very poorly to being taken advantage of, and I know that resentment absolutely corrodes a marriage, and I am pretty confident I would choose divorce if I was in this position.

Absolutely no judgement whatsoever on others who opt for another path. It must be an absolutely incredibly difficult position to be in.

Oh, and the PP who said "you'd divorce over emotional labor?" is wrong - it's not just emotional labor, it's physical labor (as someone else pointed out) and it's actually more than that - it's disrespect, dismissiveness, and a lack of true partnership. Of knowing that someone else has your back. That's what would do it for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

And for corporations to step up majorly. And for Govt to make policies that are family friendly and women friendly.

Yes, women are getting the shaft. In America especially.

You people. who think the government is going to fix everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women always vastly over report how much they contribute in these ridiculous surveys. The studies on this never have objective 3rd parties that actually measure how much each spouse contributes.

Go ahead and ask my wife who does the majority of his work. She'll adamantly claim she does most of it, and will hardly give credit for me taking care of the yard, taking care of home repair, taking care of car maintenance, taking out the trash, cooking, emptying and loading the dish washer, vacuuming, mopping the floors, taking care of all of the finances and insurance issues, and taking care of all pet work.


Most of these stupid surveys measure things like 'amount of time spent'. Sure, my wife does the laundry because she doesn't want anyone touching her clothes, but half the time she's watching Netflix while waiting for the wash and dry cycles to complete. You can't do that while mowing a large lawn. Spending 2 hours mowing the lawn is much more work than 3-4 hours of doing laundry where you just wait around half the time while watching TV. You also hardly ever have to take time off work to do house chores, which is often not the case when you have to do car maintenance and schedule mechanic repairs for all of the cars. Why is it that I always have to use vacation time and have work pile up at work when cars have to get fixed? Women should start going to the grease monkeys for family car repairs instead.

I guarantee you most mothers still do more than what you described. You keep comparing her laundry to everything you do. Who takes kids to doctor's appointments, schedules all their appointments, camps, activities, conferences and takes them to all of them. Who helps with homework day in and day out? My husband's yard work is a tiny fraction of all the things I do. Same with the cars. And the only reason he sometimes deals with mine is because he's convinced he has better people who are cheaper to handle it. I mean, really how often are you taking the car in? Not everyday, like the work that mothers do is.

[Anonymous]

DH makes 3-4 times what I make and works more hours than I do and I do about 75% of the household stuff. That feels fair to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women always vastly over report how much they contribute in these ridiculous surveys. The studies on this never have objective 3rd parties that actually measure how much each spouse contributes.

Go ahead and ask my wife who does the majority of his work. She'll adamantly claim she does most of it, and will hardly give credit for me taking care of the yard, taking care of home repair, taking care of car maintenance, taking out the trash, cooking, emptying and loading the dish washer, vacuuming, mopping the floors, taking care of all of the finances and insurance issues, and taking care of all pet work.


Most of these stupid surveys measure things like 'amount of time spent'. Sure, my wife does the laundry because she doesn't want anyone touching her clothes, but half the time she's watching Netflix while waiting for the wash and dry cycles to complete. You can't do that while mowing a large lawn. Spending 2 hours mowing the lawn is much more work than 3-4 hours of doing laundry where you just wait around half the time while watching TV. You also hardly ever have to take time off work to do house chores, which is often not the case when you have to do car maintenance and schedule mechanic repairs for all of the cars. Why is it that I always have to use vacation time and have work pile up at work when cars have to get fixed? Women should start going to the grease monkeys for family car repairs instead.

This is a fair point. I think most people overestimate the time they spend on tasks and underestimate the time their spouse does.

It was eye-opening the first time DH and I sat down to try to figure out a more equitable arrangement. I had overlooked a lot of the things he spends more time on, like finances and tax prep. For his part, he wasn’t counting all the time I spend grocery shopping and preparing meals (I do 100% of both), because he thought I enjoyed it. I do like cooking when I have free time, but it’s definitely a major chore to do it daily for a family. He also tried to tell me I enjoyed mowing the lawn, and to this day I have no clue where he got that idea or why it would make any difference.