Working women are getting the shaft

[Anonymous]

Exact opposite here -- maybe I'm the outlier? I was the DH and did everything -- cooked, cleaned, yardwork, took charge of the kid's activities, arranged playgroups, managed social activities, etc ... We'd set up task-sharing schedules, define roles, and have open discussions about it -- and in the end, despite promise after promise, she could never carry her end of the load. Instead of two parents taking care of a kid, it was one parent taking care of a kid and a woman-child.

So she is my now my ex-wife. Good riddance. And I'd say the same if the gender roles were reversed. If he's not helping, go get couples' counseling. If he still persists, get out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why you put up wit this. I do the lions share of "administrative" stuff when it comes to the kids (making appts, buying clothes etc) but he does all the cooking, yard work, and stuff around the house. It ends up being a really even split. It's never been a point of discussion; it just happened. Not sure how much it has to do with the fact that he was raised by a no-nonsense single mom or that we didn't marry until he was in his early 40s and he'd been living alone for 20 years. I wouldn't put up with anything less than an even split.

Yes, that absolutely has everything to do with it. He is rare.

This is my DH, too, almost to the letter. He was raised by his, at one time, single mom. Even when she remarried, she always worked outside of the home (she's a CPA). My DH does all the cooking and grocery shopping, home repairs, bill paying, kids' doctors appointments, and half of the cleaning and childcare. I do the admin stuff (calendar maintenance and most appointment making, kids' purchases, etc.), home organization, and tidying up He hates laundry so that's 10% me. I'm sorry that his parents divorced but they were much happier apart and I guess it really paid off for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why you put up wit this. I do the lions share of "administrative" stuff when it comes to the kids (making appts, buying clothes etc) but he does all the cooking, yard work, and stuff around the house. It ends up being a really even split. It's never been a point of discussion; it just happened. Not sure how much it has to do with the fact that he was raised by a no-nonsense single mom or that we didn't marry until he was in his early 40s and he'd been living alone for 20 years. I wouldn't put up with anything less than an even split.

Yes, that absolutely has everything to do with it. He is rare.

This is my DH, too, almost to the letter. He was raised by his, at one time, single mom. Even when she remarried, she always worked outside of the home (she's a CPA). My DH does all the cooking and grocery shopping, home repairs, bill paying, kids' doctors appointments, and half of the cleaning and childcare. I do the admin stuff (calendar maintenance and most appointment making, kids' purchases, etc.), home organization, and tidying up He hates laundry so that's 10% me. I'm sorry that his parents divorced but they were much happier apart and I guess it really paid off for me.

100% not 10% lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp - my working friends all seem miserable and overwhelmed. I have more kids and a special kid and we are okay. Not saying its never difficult but we wouldn't exchange it for anything.

In a way the clear gendered division of labor just makes less arguments and stress. I have no expectation he'll do wake up or bedtime, so I'm very grateful every time he does do it (most of the time). He listens to me regarding discipline issues and I take notes from PTA and send to him to loop him in with where kids are holding but don't expect any input.

Thanks but no thanks. I could never do this, however easy or luxurious it may seem. And most importantly, cannot raise my daughter this way.

DP here. I will certainly not let my DD drown in balancing work, home, kids and unequal pay and hostile work environment in the US. I have made sure to set her expectations of how it will go down for her. Not filling her head with the nonsense that she can be anything she wants and still have the family time, marriage, relationships which a normal human wants. She has to be smart in choosing her profession and make sure that it provides her a good paycheck to outsource whatever she can. Finally, she will have no student debt and also support from us (money gifts, childcare, downpayment to her house) to succeed.

What do you recommend poor to lower MC moms do to protect their daughters?

I did everything “right” short of being born into a wealthy family.

Sahm here the pp who has gendered division of labor.

It seems clear to me that the gendered division of labor ends up more "fair". My not working makes it not negotiable.

My husband used to be in charge of yard work but i recently took over.

I also come from poor family and my mom supported the family. She was utterly miserable. I never hear from working moms that they feel things are fair at home.

Life isn't fair. Best do what works for you. For most women, embracing their biology works better than fighting against it their entire life. And most men just don't do as well or care as much about home life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went part time because I was frankly more invested in my kids lives than dh was. He does fine and they would be fine, if I was working more but I wanted more for my kids than that and so I would be the one unhappy. There’s so much finger pointing and blame when I think we all need to be honest about our motivations. Many women want to be more involved in their Kids lives than their husbands do. That doesn’t make either side bad, it’s just a factor to consider when strategizing finances.

I agree with women wanting to be more involved in their kids lives than their husbands do, but the expectation on the women to be more involved also comes from the husbands. I don't know if it is biological or societal. I think it is a bit of both.

My DH is willing to do daily stuff with the kids that takes 20-30 minutes at a time. So he was great with the physical care - changing diaper, giving baths, feeding. He continues to cook and feed them (when asked) even now as they have grown to become teens. He is also willing to drive them to EC activities or take them to competitions during the weekend, but I have to take care of all the logistics and planning.

But, he is not the one to take the mental burden of their school work, emotional and mental health, socialization, long term planning. That is my job. I need to figure out what is going on in their lives, set their goals, suss out their friends, make sure they are thriving mentally, socially, physically, emotionally, be clued in about their school, rules - daily, weekly, yearly, 5-yearly, 10-yearly plan of their lives. He expects me to make my kids excel and be high achieving. He expects his kids to be happy and secure. He expects them to be socialized. He expects them to not miss out on any opportunity. He expects that I will have a plan that is custom-built for each child. He expects me to find the best tutors and coaches that will be a perfect match with my kids and supervise them. He expects me to be able to tutor them in any and all subjects from K-12 and beyond. He thinks that he did well in providing his kids with a mother that has multiple college degrees and a problem solver. Which means that they will get both the nurture and nature to succeed. His task is done. He will earn the money. I will make our kids into successful human beings. Case closed.

In the end, I am the parent who agonizes internally about deadlines, resources, being hyper vigilant, understanding what's at stake. He is the parent who is chilled. Going to each kids event with his camera, not knowing enough to be mentally freaking out but , absolutely assured that the kids will either win trophies OR will have a good experience. In any case, he has not invested the time and lifted the mental burden or prepared for failure. He is just in the moment. Floating happily.

I could have written this. Unless I missed it, you never said whether you’re happy with this arrangement. I am for the most part, but I occasionally resent that DH and I have such clearly differentiated roles. I sometimes think it would nice to have more of a balance but it’s easier and routine this way, and changing it up might make everyone grumpy and stressed out.

[Anonymous]

My DH has to step up and take on a lot of the household duties. I have an autoimmune disorder and am limited in energy and times when I am not overcome with pain or in the hospital. I try my best and he knows so he takes on the extra load for ms and I am forever grateful. I home this is not preparing him for me dying soon and him being left to raise our two kids and handle everything on his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went part time because I was frankly more invested in my kids lives than dh was. He does fine and they would be fine, if I was working more but I wanted more for my kids than that and so I would be the one unhappy. There’s so much finger pointing and blame when I think we all need to be honest about our motivations. Many women want to be more involved in their Kids lives than their husbands do. That doesn’t make either side bad, it’s just a factor to consider when strategizing finances.

I agree with women wanting to be more involved in their kids lives than their husbands do, but the expectation on the women to be more involved also comes from the husbands. I don't know if it is biological or societal. I think it is a bit of both.

My DH is willing to do daily stuff with the kids that takes 20-30 minutes at a time. So he was great with the physical care - changing diaper, giving baths, feeding. He continues to cook and feed them (when asked) even now as they have grown to become teens. He is also willing to drive them to EC activities or take them to competitions during the weekend, but I have to take care of all the logistics and planning.

But, he is not the one to take the mental burden of their school work, emotional and mental health, socialization, long term planning. That is my job. I need to figure out what is going on in their lives, set their goals, suss out their friends, make sure they are thriving mentally, socially, physically, emotionally, be clued in about their school, rules - daily, weekly, yearly, 5-yearly, 10-yearly plan of their lives. He expects me to make my kids excel and be high achieving. He expects his kids to be happy and secure. He expects them to be socialized. He expects them to not miss out on any opportunity. He expects that I will have a plan that is custom-built for each child. He expects me to find the best tutors and coaches that will be a perfect match with my kids and supervise them. He expects me to be able to tutor them in any and all subjects from K-12 and beyond. He thinks that he did well in providing his kids with a mother that has multiple college degrees and a problem solver. Which means that they will get both the nurture and nature to succeed. His task is done. He will earn the money. I will make our kids into successful human beings. Case closed.

In the end, I am the parent who agonizes internally about deadlines, resources, being hyper vigilant, understanding what's at stake. He is the parent who is chilled. Going to each kids event with his camera, not knowing enough to be mentally freaking out but absolutely assured that the kids will either win trophies OR will have a good experience. In any case, he has not invested the time and lifted the mental burden or prepared for failure. He is just in the moment. Floating happily.

I could have written this. Unless I missed it, you never said whether you’re happy with this arrangement. I am for the most part, but I occasionally resent that DH and I have such clearly differentiated roles. I sometimes think it would nice to have more of a balance but it’s easier and routine this way, and changing it up might make everyone grumpy and stressed out.

This is my role and I am better at it than he is because I have been doing it since the beginning. I like the control and continuity of remaining in this role but I wish now, as the kids are teens in HS, that he was more aware so that he could be a resource/partner that I could lean on. He is woefully uninformed about most things concerning their life and schooling and also completely uninterested/incapable in learning about them. Now, when he does offer his input, it is like someone who came late to the table and has no context to what is going on. It is not helpful to me and it certainly rubs the kids the wrong way because he is so clueless.

This whole pandemic he has breezed through not knowing or caring about DL or the college application process. Not. One. Thing. Which works most of the time but it also means I have to remain healthy and alive till my kids are settled because he cannot plan for their future at all. I am not unhappy because he does his best to be a good provider and our kids will benefit from it all. I just feel that I might drop a few balls and mess up now since the kids are in HS and the college process has begun, and it is stressful to navigate it for the first time.

I am sure he feels the same about me as I have over time started to not carry the mental burden of some aspects of our lives and letting him handle it. The differentiation allows us to provide coverage in a consistent manner to different aspects of our lives, but while I feel that I can take on his roles efficiently if need be, I am not sure that he is capable of taking on my role if our family is ever in that situation. I am not complaining or unhappy. I am just stating that this is the way things are. And most of the time I am perfectly happy with my role, and sometimes when I am not, I just deal.

[Anonymous]

^ as somebody with equally involved parents, that is sad.

I’m so glad my partner and I are equals on all fronts. My parents mirrored that and my husband was raised by a single working mother.

I would hate not having a career or a voice and I would hate having a man that didn’t contribute to the household other than a paycheck. My husband is more domestic than me around the house and is a neat freak.

[Anonymous]

OMG the word shaft and this is all about housework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My father is disabled. Brilliant scholar but couldn't work. My mom was essentially a single mother. Earned all the money, did all the childcare, everything.

I am a sahm married to a big earner. He doesn't lift a finger at home. We have a bunch of little kids and a ton of help .

I actually think I have the better end of the deal than most of my friends. I run the house, groceries, dinner, childcare, special child's care. My husband often gets up with the kids who wake up at 500 if he hasn't been working until 3 am and he also does bedtime most nights. He also pays the bills.

Since working from home life has gotten a lot more relaxed for us.

But you don't have a career. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pp - my working friends all seem miserable and overwhelmed. I have more kids and a special kid and we are okay. Not saying its never difficult but we wouldn't exchange it for anything.

In a way the clear gendered division of labor just makes less arguments and stress. I have no expectation he'll do wake up or bedtime, so I'm very grateful every time he does do it (most of the time). He listens to me regarding discipline issues and I take notes from PTA and send to him to loop him in with where kids are holding but don't expect any input.

This only works if you're okay doing nothing in a professional capacity and always, always being the person who has to give up sleep, exercise, time with friends, etc. if husband or children need something. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp - my working friends all seem miserable and overwhelmed. I have more kids and a special kid and we are okay. Not saying its never difficult but we wouldn't exchange it for anything.

In a way the clear gendered division of labor just makes less arguments and stress. I have no expectation he'll do wake up or bedtime, so I'm very grateful every time he does do it (most of the time). He listens to me regarding discipline issues and I take notes from PTA and send to him to loop him in with where kids are holding but don't expect any input.

This only works if you're okay doing nothing in a professional capacity and always, always being the person who has to give up sleep, exercise, time with friends, etc. if husband or children need something. No thanks.

Yes, I've given up a career outside the home, but what do people have careers for if not to achieve the security of a home to come home to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went part time because I was frankly more invested in my kids lives than dh was. He does fine and they would be fine, if I was working more but I wanted more for my kids than that and so I would be the one unhappy. There’s so much finger pointing and blame when I think we all need to be honest about our motivations. Many women want to be more involved in their Kids lives than their husbands do. That doesn’t make either side bad, it’s just a factor to consider when strategizing finances.

I agree with women wanting to be more involved in their kids lives than their husbands do, but the expectation on the women to be more involved also comes from the husbands. I don't know if it is biological or societal. I think it is a bit of both.

My DH is willing to do daily stuff with the kids that takes 20-30 minutes at a time. So he was great with the physical care - changing diaper, giving baths, feeding. He continues to cook and feed them (when asked) even now as they have grown to become teens. He is also willing to drive them to EC activities or take them to competitions during the weekend, but I have to take care of all the logistics and planning.

But, he is not the one to take the mental burden of their school work, emotional and mental health, socialization, long term planning. That is my job. I need to figure out what is going on in their lives, set their goals, suss out their friends, make sure they are thriving mentally, socially, physically, emotionally, be clued in about their school, rules - daily, weekly, yearly, 5-yearly, 10-yearly plan of their lives. He expects me to make my kids excel and be high achieving. He expects his kids to be happy and secure. He expects them to be socialized. He expects them to not miss out on any opportunity. He expects that I will have a plan that is custom-built for each child. He expects me to find the best tutors and coaches that will be a perfect match with my kids and supervise them. He expects me to be able to tutor them in any and all subjects from K-12 and beyond. He thinks that he did well in providing his kids with a mother that has multiple college degrees and a problem solver. Which means that they will get both the nurture and nature to succeed. His task is done. He will earn the money. I will make our kids into successful human beings. Case closed.

In the end, I am the parent who agonizes internally about deadlines, resources, being hyper vigilant, understanding what's at stake. He is the parent who is chilled. Going to each kids event with his camera, not knowing enough to be mentally freaking out but , absolutely assured that the kids will either win trophies OR will have a good experience. In any case, he has not invested the time and lifted the mental burden or prepared for failure. He is just in the moment. Floating happily.

I could have written this. Unless I missed it, you never said whether you’re happy with this arrangement. I am for the most part, but I occasionally resent that DH and I have such clearly differentiated roles. I sometimes think it would nice to have more of a balance but it’s easier and routine this way, and changing it up might make everyone grumpy and stressed out.

Same here. Not a thought or care or plan in the world.

He's essentially a Task Rabbit. Will do a simple task here or there when asked and someone explains the who, what, where, when, how.

Other than that, he's addicted to his smartphone and office work. He has some neuro-atypical things so trying to get him involved more results in failures and anger outburts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went part time because I was frankly more invested in my kids lives than dh was. He does fine and they would be fine, if I was working more but I wanted more for my kids than that and so I would be the one unhappy. There’s so much finger pointing and blame when I think we all need to be honest about our motivations. Many women want to be more involved in their Kids lives than their husbands do. That doesn’t make either side bad, it’s just a factor to consider when strategizing finances.

I agree with women wanting to be more involved in their kids lives than their husbands do, but the expectation on the women to be more involved also comes from the husbands. I don't know if it is biological or societal. I think it is a bit of both.

My DH is willing to do daily stuff with the kids that takes 20-30 minutes at a time. So he was great with the physical care - changing diaper, giving baths, feeding. He continues to cook and feed them (when asked) even now as they have grown to become teens. He is also willing to drive them to EC activities or take them to competitions during the weekend, but I have to take care of all the logistics and planning.

But, he is not the one to take the mental burden of their school work, emotional and mental health, socialization, long term planning. That is my job. I need to figure out what is going on in their lives, set their goals, suss out their friends, make sure they are thriving mentally, socially, physically, emotionally, be clued in about their school, rules - daily, weekly, yearly, 5-yearly, 10-yearly plan of their lives. He expects me to make my kids excel and be high achieving. He expects his kids to be happy and secure. He expects them to be socialized. He expects them to not miss out on any opportunity. He expects that I will have a plan that is custom-built for each child. He expects me to find the best tutors and coaches that will be a perfect match with my kids and supervise them. He expects me to be able to tutor them in any and all subjects from K-12 and beyond. He thinks that he did well in providing his kids with a mother that has multiple college degrees and a problem solver. Which means that they will get both the nurture and nature to succeed. His task is done. He will earn the money. I will make our kids into successful human beings. Case closed.

In the end, I am the parent who agonizes internally about deadlines, resources, being hyper vigilant, understanding what's at stake. He is the parent who is chilled. Going to each kids event with his camera, not knowing enough to be mentally freaking out but absolutely assured that the kids will either win trophies OR will have a good experience. In any case, he has not invested the time and lifted the mental burden or prepared for failure. He is just in the moment. Floating happily.

I could have written this. Unless I missed it, you never said whether you’re happy with this arrangement. I am for the most part, but I occasionally resent that DH and I have such clearly differentiated roles. I sometimes think it would nice to have more of a balance but it’s easier and routine this way, and changing it up might make everyone grumpy and stressed out.

This is my role and I am better at it than he is because I have been doing it since the beginning. I like the control and continuity of remaining in this role but I wish now, as the kids are teens in HS, that he was more aware so that he could be a resource/partner that I could lean on. He is woefully uninformed about most things concerning their life and schooling and also completely uninterested/incapable in learning about them. Now, when he does offer his input, it is like someone who came late to the table and has no context to what is going on. It is not helpful to me and it certainly rubs the kids the wrong way because he is so clueless.

This whole pandemic he has breezed through not knowing or caring about DL or the college application process. Not. One. Thing. Which works most of the time but it also means I have to remain healthy and alive till my kids are settled because he cannot plan for their future at all. I am not unhappy because he does his best to be a good provider and our kids will benefit from it all. I just feel that I might drop a few balls and mess up now since the kids are in HS and the college process has begun, and it is stressful to navigate it for the first time.

I am sure he feels the same about me as I have over time started to not carry the mental burden of some aspects of our lives and letting him handle it. The differentiation allows us to provide coverage in a consistent manner to different aspects of our lives, but while I feel that I can take on his roles efficiently if need be, I am not sure that he is capable of taking on my role if our family is ever in that situation. I am not complaining or unhappy. I am just stating that this is the way things are. And most of the time I am perfectly happy with my role, and sometimes when I am not, I just deal.

That is odd to be THAT uninvolved, especially about the kids' sports or college process/goals. Is he on the spectrum?

[Anonymous]

My DH has always been a true partner in every aspect of our marriage and family life. Covid just made him step up more. I have a good man.